Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 21:12:27
I don't see how creating weapons and blowing ourselves is smart. It's illogical actually, we don't do it to survive, we do it since we distrust each other. Then again, "illogical" is a human term and a dolphin probably wouldn't understand that as a sound made by a dolphin isn't understood by humans. You'd think since we're so much more "intelligent" we could live in unison similar to animals?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-05-30 at 21:26:28
I really hope you're not talking to me. I REALLY DO. Anyways, I view it as opulation control, (considering that we're essentially a virus, and considering that we're seriously overcrowding the planet).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 22:13:44
It was a general statement, it wasn't entirely directed to you. 
We're more like cancer though.
We're more like cancer though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snipe on 2005-05-30 at 22:45:00
how so?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .matrix//Merovingian on 2005-05-30 at 23:01:10
Humans concentrate in one place, spread out in all directions, concentrate some more, and then spread some more, like cancer cells; unlike viruses, humans don't necessarily destroy the places they inhabit before moving on (at least that's my understanding of the whole thing; I may be wrong).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-05-30 at 23:01:41
Animals are just like cancer as well. Infact, almost all life is a cancer. We're just a bigger cancer, that's all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 23:04:16
Animals don't actually harm the Earth do they as much as humans possibly could? I think the Earth would of been doing fine, without all the nukes and missles, you know. We're a bigger and deadlier cancer...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-30 at 23:08:56
We aren't cancer, cancers are immortal and those cells can stay alive forever, or at least they are able to divide infinitely. If one person was a "cell" then we would eventually die, therefore not being cancer, or we won't be able to reproduce when we get really old.
Though we are able to reproduce to the point where we grow in numbers.
Though we are able to reproduce to the point where we grow in numbers.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snipe on 2005-05-30 at 23:12:16
I think everthone is calling us cancer because we do exacly as it does. But i agree with devlisk. There is no way around. The world was made for us to experience. That is just my logic.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2005-05-30 at 23:12:30
Has any animal actually harmed the earth? I haven't seen any rocks complaining. We harm other animals, just as every other animal has harmed it's predicessors. When plants were first introduced into the world, they produced a toxic gas, called oxygen. THis was slowily killing off all the plants, until new forms of life appeared, which were able to take in this harmfull gas. These became animals, and basically the only difference now is we are producing a gas faster than earlier.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .matrix//Merovingian on 2005-05-30 at 23:12:42
QUOTE
"I'd like to share a revelation during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure."- Agent Smith, "The Matrix"
I just thought that that particular quote was appropriate to this line of talk.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 23:12:48
Cancer isn't immortal.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-30 at 23:14:51
Who cares? The word "harm" is a word created by us and it's our own definition of right and wrong. Maybe doing "harm" is actually the way the universe works 
ADDITION:
Do a google search on cancer immortal.
And if they aren't they do at least reproduce endlessly.
http://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/agingcancer.htmlhttp://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=48&t=518&s=
http://www.greatestherbsonearth.com/articles/immortality.htm
http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about596-12.html
Quoted from some post in that last link:
ADDITION:
QUOTE(DevliN_ @ May 30 2005, 11:12 PM)
Cancer isn't immortal.
[right][snapback]221668[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]221668[/snapback][/right]
Do a google search on cancer immortal.
And if they aren't they do at least reproduce endlessly.
http://www.txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/agingcancer.htmlhttp://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=48&t=518&s=
http://www.greatestherbsonearth.com/articles/immortality.htm
http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about596-12.html
Quoted from some post in that last link:
QUOTE
yes. cancer cells are immortal, unless you kill them or unless the cancer cells kill their host. the cells are immortal but as they spread (metastasis) they harm the body. Because cancer cells are not identical to normal cells. they are different. and note that it is an uncontrolled division. the cells divide continuously. normal cells divide to a point and then stop. the mechanism that stops them is called contact inhibition.
cancer cells kill their hosts. (or you can call it the body.) when cancer spreads to some organs it causes many activities to stop and finally the person dies. When the person (or it might be more logical to call organism instead of person) dies all metabolic activities stop as well.
so doesn't that mean the death of cancer cells too?
cancer cells kill their hosts. (or you can call it the body.) when cancer spreads to some organs it causes many activities to stop and finally the person dies. When the person (or it might be more logical to call organism instead of person) dies all metabolic activities stop as well.
so doesn't that mean the death of cancer cells too?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2005-05-30 at 23:15:51
They reproduce till they die. They simply skip the cycle of life between reproductions.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 23:16:51
I meant to say that even though Cancer may always exist, you can still "parts" of it, I doubt cancer would survive in a harsh enviroment. They won't reproduce endlessly if they can't reproduce, melting in some sort of melting lava...
Maybe the animals will enslave us one day...one day.
Maybe the animals will enslave us one day...one day.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .matrix//Merovingian on 2005-05-30 at 23:18:48
Viruses also reproduce endlessly, at least until they run out of cells to infest; once they run out of cells to infest, they slowly begin to die out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-30 at 23:20:21
Well under the right conditions to sustain life cancer cells divide endlessly, though if you did the same to regular cells they would eventually stop dividing right? That's what I think they mean by immortal.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2005-05-30 at 23:22:14
Viruses never "die out" They can be destroyed, but as long as they are sitting in one spot doing nothing they will sit there forever.
ADDITION:
Both cancer cells and normal cells would eventually stop dividing, because each division costs them one minor fragment of dna. Normally this is a bunch of incoherent dna peices at the end. After many divisions, (A lifetimes worth normally) the cell starts breaking parts of its own dna. This kills the cell.
ADDITION:
Both cancer cells and normal cells would eventually stop dividing, because each division costs them one minor fragment of dna. Normally this is a bunch of incoherent dna peices at the end. After many divisions, (A lifetimes worth normally) the cell starts breaking parts of its own dna. This kills the cell.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-30 at 23:24:35
I thought cancer cells don't lose DNA when they divide. Something about telomeres
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 23:25:34
It's like photocopying one piece of paper with writing. If you keep doing it, the quality will eventually be so crappy that you'll burn it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-30 at 23:28:49
I don't think you can compare it to photocopying. From what I've read off google many things say that normal cells divide until they run out of telomere in their DNA, because as they divide they lose a little bit of it, so they are programmed to stop, but cancer cells don't because of something with the telomere.
Heres something that cleared things up for me:
QUOTE
Cancer cells only stop dividing after the death of the patient. This is due to the lack of incoming sustenance; proteins, carbohydrates, and especially lipids. Cells need these to divide. Without them, cells will die.
QUOTE
Thats right Kyle. that is what i was trying to say. when the patient dies, the cells die too. but if make a culture of cancer cells , they won't die as long as you provide optimum conditions.
Heres something that cleared things up for me:
QUOTE
Immortal, when used in biology means "Capable of indefinite growth or division." I think you are confusing the term "invulnerable" to the term "immortal." The term Immortal here means that it will live forever provided it gets everything it needs and some outside force does not kill it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-30 at 23:30:41
We'll raise cancer as biological warfare! It's ingenious!
I thought this is the way cancer worked. The cancer would multiply so fast that they would outnumber the normal cells, and replace them. The cancer cells are virtually useless, and they do nothing but take up room. Eventually, the cancer cells in use outnumber the normal cells, and vital organs don't function properly since of the cancer cells, they can't do anything. Eventually, you won't be able to survive since cancer replaced your whole body with useless cells, leading to death.
EDIT: I didn't know the "biological" term for immortal, I thought it meant impossible to kill.
I thought this is the way cancer worked. The cancer would multiply so fast that they would outnumber the normal cells, and replace them. The cancer cells are virtually useless, and they do nothing but take up room. Eventually, the cancer cells in use outnumber the normal cells, and vital organs don't function properly since of the cancer cells, they can't do anything. Eventually, you won't be able to survive since cancer replaced your whole body with useless cells, leading to death.
EDIT: I didn't know the "biological" term for immortal, I thought it meant impossible to kill.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2005-05-31 at 19:29:27
How does one "raise cancer"?
And cancer doesn't replace the other normal cells in your body. It simply crowds up the whole area. They continuously divide no matter what the conditions, so even after the pressure is too great for most body functions, such as blood flow, the cancer still divides. When a person gets acncer in their brain, it stresses the brain by adding pressure.
And cancer doesn't replace the other normal cells in your body. It simply crowds up the whole area. They continuously divide no matter what the conditions, so even after the pressure is too great for most body functions, such as blood flow, the cancer still divides. When a person gets acncer in their brain, it stresses the brain by adding pressure.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-05-31 at 19:36:57
Humans do not generate an equilibrium, a balance, with the environment,. You saying "all animals and plants do harm" is really crap. You can't harm a mass of plain materials, you can just change it. Since an ideal state for life forms exists, you can, therby, hurt them by changing this state. Humans have only solved the enviromental problems they themselves created. We're not good at manipulating the environment, and honestly, we shouldn't, atleast, not at the level wqe do now. Eventually the planet is going to burn out, the resources are going to be spent, and we're all 
ed.
ed.Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2005-05-31 at 19:50:14
There is always too much of something, and too much is always bad.
Anyways, what does this have to do with P.E.T.A. (The crazy terrorist vegetarians we were talking about?).
There should probably be some topic about viruses.
You can't get acne in your brain, dirt and grime do not get inside your head (hopefully) and your brain doesn't have oil glands inside it.
Anyways, what does this have to do with P.E.T.A. (The crazy terrorist vegetarians we were talking about?).
There should probably be some topic about viruses.
QUOTE
When a person gets acncer in their brain, it stresses the brain by adding pressure.
You can't get acne in your brain, dirt and grime do not get inside your head (hopefully) and your brain doesn't have oil glands inside it.