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yeah well i dunno if this will help but im currently making a new rp. its gonna be a water world with good terrain blending and such. so if we get more rp maps in the dldb it will inprove our chances of having rps as a section right?

Hey Sie, that is totally awesome! I can't wait to see how it turns out. If you ever need a new tester or anything, I may be rather unexperienced in map making, but feel free to ask and I'd do my best. Thanks for coming out of retirement, that's really cool.

Having more maps in the DLDB might be a good idea. Do you think we should go on and start submitting the better rps we have? Maybe 2 at a time or something. I'm guessing that if an rp section were to be created it wouldn't be for awhile anyway. Having a variety of interesting maps to view maybe others will like what they see. Maybe when next version of SEN comes out, I don't know. Whatcha think?

those are the ones we currently have correct? well if volc wants to submit more he could. yeah we should upload more good rps.

Yeah those and a few others were the ones I found in the DLDB. I posted them on pg1 of this thread.
I'll start submiiting maps tomorrow then, my christmas present to SEN. Merry christmas everyone. ^_^

» Becuse length definitely wins all arguments.
In this case, I would say it does.

Erm... You could just rename RPGs to RPGs and RPs or something.

» Soccer and football are different of course, but... if we were to categorize soccer and football we wouldn't throw them into two different categories would we? NO! We put them in sports because uh? They are both sports?

I don't see how this translates to RPGs and RPs exactly... Sports = RPGs, Soccer = RPs, and... Football equals... RPGs again?

Rps are the most underated genre period





**** You Lucas Arts.

Wonderful idea! As to your question...
So you said:

This is right, but you're thinking the wrong way. Kit's comment on RPG and RP being near homonyms comes into play here. Because RPG and RP are in fact, both RPGs, the issue is being confused.
Infested_jerk said:

So, rps are not the same thing as rpgs. This changes the category they should be placed under.

So considering these things:
Sports = Roleplaying (being the type of map where you roleplay)
Football = RPGs (being the traditional Video game style rpg wherein there is a set storyline and defined style of gameplay)
Soccer = RPs(being the type of rp where players determine story and gameplay)

Now this comparison to sports was just an allegory. A simpler example might have been Dnd style rpgs and video game rpgs. Whereas both the Final Fantasy video game series and Dungeons and Dragons D20 3.5 are undeniably RPGs they are vastly different in the way they are set up and excecuted. These differences are what separate the Dnd books from the FinalFantasy games, though on a higher level they both are classified as RPGs. When you say RPG in real life it can have a variety of meanings. Dnd, RPG videogames, MMORPGs, extremely open RPGs like Fable(red2blue mentioned), costume dinner partys where you play some other role. RPG means all of these things dispite the differences, even though RPG also means Final Fantasy. Final fantasy is not a costume dinner party nor is it Dnd. The fact that one of the subcategories of Roleplaying(nicknamed RPG) has also been nicknamed RPG is what causes the confusion.
umm, this is probably as hard to understand as it is for me to explain... T_T
Red2Blue left the discussion, I wonder what he thinks now.

I think I get it now.

Oh, and don't get me wrong: I'm all for an RP category, I think they are very different from RPGs, and I love to RP myself.

-_-

If im continuing to go about the one protection, rp = rpg, then why is it that every good point I made was never refuted? Oh thats right, because everyone just focused on that one point.


Minimoose was using sarcasm. Btw... sarcasm...




I left the discussion because there was nothing left to discuss, everyone keeps repeating the same thing and everyone keeps going "Ooo nice come back, ooo you got burned, ooo this person won the arguement," for no good reason...

Ive read everything in this post and refuted every point wisely. Read backwards to understand my point of view. We all can't just agree on everything. Sure I used rp = rpg. Whats new?






You are a cocky little devil aren't you. Ignorance must be your best friend.

We were battling? I thought we were trying to work something out so both sides can agree on the terms. Life must still be a little game for you if you think everything is a battle that must be won (erm, Bush, erm). There is no difference in your explaination, they both revolve around the same thing, roleplaying. (why has no one refuted that? Eh? Eh?). You are simply giving two scenarios that are possible, given a choice, or forced to make a choice. These two factors do not differenciate anything.




The answer was merely playful banter at the situation. It only stated differing points between the two, not only that, but it does not give enough differing points to differenciate it from any category we already have.

It wasn't that large.




Unreccorded events are not particularly important. In fact, they are not important at all. Sure it changes the person, but does it change a whole? What is the point to make something that nobody can see? It brings about the "when a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?" question. Who knows what happened to the tree, who knows if it made a sound. Who knows how it affected things around it.

Imaginations, so you live a lie.



In this case, you are basically proving that they fall under the same genre. They both roleplay.



Not different enough to warrant a new genre section.



Wow, that helped the discussion very much, it made a very defining standpoint. Ty.




Give up? You might as well give up on life. Roll over, die. Rot and vanish from existance. Lest the heavens have mercy on your soul. The great founders of america never gave up. They failed and lost many times, they never gave up. The trick to living, is to never give up, never quit, never surrender.

The indeniable conclusion? What made you god? What made you see the end? How can you even begin to dictate a decision that even you don't know?




I guess its safe to say that someone who writes a 10,000 page book on the existance of magical twinkle fairies that exist in Ohio wins over a person who writes a 2 page synopsis on how twinkle fairies are non-existant.




Are you unable to forget that you are merely a tiny voice within the universe? That your words mean nothing to it, and therefore pointless to even open your mouth or type a few letters in a forum? Remember forever that your words will never echo in the universe and that you can never be heard. Nor repeat.

If you are going to complain about how things echo, you might as well complain about rain for repeating multiple times.




An echo ressonates within a valley only when someone yells out to begin with. Do not complain about the echo, for it is you who set forth the sound to be echoed.

Of course they are different, not different enough to get their own section. I only said they were rpgs because they are like rpgs thus they should be in the rpg section.

I agree that rp and rpg play differently (yes, im talking to those guys up there who keep saying rp= something rpg= something blahblah), but I don't agree that they should have their own section. You talk mostly about how they play differently, well, apparently you didn't give a good enough reason, because you are simply talking about different ways to play...... the same game.




Just straightforward, rps are not different enough gameplaywise to warrant a new genre. They don't have that distinguishing factor that hallmarks it as something new. Ive seen so many maps thrown into the Arena/Click section that are very innovative and vastly unique from the other maps, yet they do not get a new genre. Its just life. Everything goes somewhere, theres always a place for it. If rps were really that important, they would already have a section.








And that my friend is why they shouldn't get a new section, there are many ways to play the same game. Many different viewpoints, many different approaches, yet, these aren't enough to invoke a new section from the way its played. Simply gameplay modifications do not warrant it a new section. Modifications of a particular map belong with its parent genre. Thus a role playing game (RP), should belong in a role playing game genre.



Hey, don't get mad that I speak my mind. Im glad you are very closed-minded and like to go with the flow and follow the leaders like herds of mindless-sheep, forever swoon by a leader's influence and forever ignorant to other points of views.

» I guess its safe to say that someone who writes a 10,000 page book on the existance of magical twinkle fairies that exist in Ohio wins over a person who writes a 2 page synopsis on how twinkle fairies are non-existant.

I think you missed the point... I'm saying Rain has a lot of strong arguments (so do you), but I think he/she has more... And please notice I said "in this case."

» In this case, you are basically proving that they fall under the same genre. They both roleplay.

Haven't we already agreed they fall under a general genre? I do, but I still think they're different enough to rename it RPGs and RPs or create a sub-category.

(I'm just replying to the things that apply to me, I don't really like stuff like this).

You play a RPG much differently than a Rp, in an RPG you can't spawn a hundred BC's and upgrade to 255 weapon without spending a single mineral. (I see anyone from SEN do this and I'll find someway to annoy you)

General playing style differences does not differenciate a map from another genrewise.





Oh, that was sarcasm, I forgot to put the "[/sarcasm]" tag.

Many strong points do not win out against a few defining arguements.



Im all for a sub-category... within the rpg section of course (I guess it wasn't too clear that I wanted a sub-section within a genre, and not to throw it into the rpgs section without a defining section; just making sure we are clear on this... the arguments I used were merely to define that it does not deserve a new genre, but instead a new sub-genre).

yadda yadda yadda (text goes here.)

Style could very well make it worth a new catagory because Rp's are the only maps that allow players endless (Well, except terrain...) freedom to spawn fourty-one zerglings, a infested Durran, three pylons and a hatchery and four fenixes. You can't do that in an rpg, a golems map, a Racoon City, or in a Helms Deep. The freedom to spawn happens when the player wants it to happen and lasts as long as he wants it.

I can't debate that, but I can assure you that isn't as unique as it seems. Sure we don't have any maps that let use spawn any types of units, yet other maps in particular allow you to spawn numerous types of units (golems lets you spawn certain types of units etc.). Once again, this is merely a flavor difference, not defining enough to set forth a new standard in map types.

But those examples happen on a timed basis, you get X amount of Lings, goons or w/e every X amount of seconds.

Not the newer golems ive seen...

» Oh, that was sarcasm, I forgot to put the "[/sarcasm]" tag.
Do you really think I didn't know that was sarcasm? Your "defining arguments" are the same as "strong arguments" in my opinion, so I should think more strong (or defining) arguments would win. (Not neccessarily an entirely new section, but one of the options I've mentioned I'd be fine with).

» (I guess it wasn't too clear that I wanted a sub-section within a genre, and not to throw it into the rpgs section without a defining section; just making sure we are clear on this... the arguments I used were merely to define that it does not deserve a new genre, but instead a new sub-genre)

Okay then

Hey, you're Back! ok so I'm sorry, I never said I won or whatever. I considered it a debate, that was quite fun for me.


I was afraid he was, which is why I didn't like it. That being pretty much all he said it doesn't say much for this topic. I don't want to win or whatever or get my way as you say just because of incessant posts or w/e.

good.


Bravo!

Good grief, that's insulting.... No matter, another difference of oppinion I guess but in the end I really believe you are unrecutibly undeniably completely utterly WRONG here. Sorry, you just are. Maybe it's my beliefs but it's me and that's just how I am because of my entire life and how it has shaped who I am. They do change the person and the person changes the whole. Without the individual there is no whole. The whole is a completely pointless mass of nothingness if there was no individual. You see it don't you? By you're ability to see it, this changes your personage and thereafter you act differently. You are a new person because you have been altered, undeniably. You cannot refute this. You can have a different oppinion on the consequences of these individual nonrecorded events but I believe they are every bit as important as the big events that come later.

Our lives are built on experience. Each thing that happens to us, every single interactive experience shapes us to who we will be and what we will do. Does the lack of a defining record detailing the doings of the Fathers of the American Revolution negate those happening's importance? No, the declaration of independence would not exist without those same "meaningless unrecorded events;" do the childhood play games enjoyed by the great authors have no importance? NO The great classics would not exist without those experiences. Does the fact that StarCraft's storyline does not REALLY exist in our world negate all the hard work and effort the Blizzard team put into the game? NO IT DOES NOT! I may be an odd one, but I blame this on my past. My own personal memories and experiences have led me to conclude that fantasy and untold stories we make up in our heads, some of which become published, others which remain untold, are not pointless and meaningless. They are some peoples way of telling their own stories. We take from what we have experienced in life and weave allegorical tales in many different shapes and sizes. If you're telling me I'm living a lie by using my imagination. Then You too live the lie by participating in the same thing and playing within a nonexistant world. StarCraft. I however will choose to believe that these unrecorded events have meaning. These tales I tell within the bounds of my imagination have actual impact on life. The tree's fall signifies the trees death and that is significant because the tree was alive. My life is significant because it is life. Our imaginations are significant because they make sense of our lives. Think about it. You can't tell me my imagination leads me to live a lie. You'd be telling me a mistruth, a lie.

That's right.

ok then, that's great. I agree with you completely. Sometimes it sounded like you were just saying rps were pointless pieces of crap that should be ignored and thrown into the rpgs section cause they weren't important enough to be anywhere else. That's cool then! ^_^
I think that's a good idea too. Separating the rps into a completely different category would just give them greater recognition. It's another viable solution I think If you consider the fact that the RPGs section might be associated with the Standard video game conception of them. However, in the end, I must agree with you and say that the final place the rp belongs is within a subcategory of the RPG section.

Not neccesarily... Rps started as a really small nearly non-existant collection of maps that provided a different idea on how to Roleplay on SC. They were innovative and they were unique. They weren't that many in number. The didn't deserve their own section. Not alot of people play the RP and I personally have more than 100 variations on rp style maps. This new found importance is what makes the topic of this thread plausable. I wouldn't be advocating rp diffrenciation and recognition and whatnot if they weren't so big. The other innovative maps you're talking about are what the rp once was, not Is. All the rps function with the basic same principle, that's what I mean... I guess. You know, what I was talking about earlier. ^_^

That just flew over my head hitting my brother in the face....

Opinions are everything.



I kinda sorta said that subcategories were the way to go like on the first part of this whole discussion... nobody took note of it. I only made them sound like crap because everyone overglorified them like adorning a peacock... which already does not require any adorning...



The declaration of independance and constitution was recorded, thoroughly and painstakingly detailed by James Madison. He reccorded everything that happened, and because we KNOW what happened, we KNOW what exactly to be thankful for within the constitution because we know which genius implemented what idea. For the knowing of what they did, we can respect the paper. Afterall, it was just a piece of paper. However, nobody knew who to thank when the constituation and declaration of indepence was released. It was decided that the "founders" were to be announced once they all have perished.

All the people who worked on the blizzard maps and within the world are all reccorded within the end of the manual and within the strategy guide, very explicitly.

A tree that is on the ground does not signify that it has died. What if the tree grew along the ground like a grapevine? There from birth it lay.

I don't participate in a non-existant world. Sc. I merely play games. To live in a world is to rp.

Imaginations were what broght forth all the little fairytales and silly thoughts that we all know are truly a lie and truly stupid like bigfoot or the abominatable snowman.

I played an rp the other day, I attempted to try, and after creating a little city which took 1 hour to make someone decided to make a stupid storyline about some cliche plot then after spamming the map with every possible sound wav and unit; forced everyone to leave the game... I shall never rp again.

thats why you rp with friends, there will always be noobs some where

*cries*

I had cloaked stacked hyrdas and everything...

I'm so glad you tried But so sad it died! T_T It took me a while to learn how to rp so it was about the time I actually knew how to do it well that I ran into my first really good game.
Yeah that happens alot. It sucks.
I believe there is a big difference between the lie and the imaginative story. They are nearly the same thing but one is more of a twisted version of the other. I believe that what we imagine is truth as the individual sees it and interprets it within his own mind. Fantasy stories are concentrated bits of human experience and the interpretation of that experience. The lie is the twisting of that experience into some other untoward use. I was reading the Neverending Story last night and it had some interesting points on the subject. Quite unexpected. ^_^

huh? I wasn't being literal there. By a tree on the ground I meant a dead tree, just when I imagined a dead tree it was on the ground. lol I didn't consider vines, so when you read what I said just think dead tree.
You said that unrecorded events are unimportant. What I meant by all that stuff I said was this: The everyday things the people who worked on blizzard did and the everyday things that the "Forefathers" did were unrecorded. These things, such as talking to each other, and sketching story and character outlines on resteraunt napkins, and writing love poetry that would never leave their hands, and witnessing another's distress in a time of need; these things which are not recorded are every bit as important to the final work, in this case the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and StarCraft, as the names recorded in the back of the book. Without these everyday happenings there would be no final work to be recorded. Literature and fantasy and all that are condensed pieces of human experience. Not all is recorded, but even that which isn't recorded is important. That's what I meant.

I do remember you saying something about that. I believe I said it was a good idea at the time but no one pursued it. I think we've been talking up the rp cause we really want others to notice. Maybe I overdid it? But I really do have fun with them.
When you play a game you're taking part in that world. You don't have to live in a world to participate in activities there. ^_^ By taking part any way in a game you are living a lie.
Connecting this to what I said earlier, the lie is a twisted version of another view of reality. You play a game which I play too. I might play that game into a deeper level of self expresion but the game is still set in the same world. I'm tired now so if I didn't make sense somewhere tell me. 0_0

I believe magic can be completely real in a certain since. Not really real as defined by some, but real enough to my mind. I'm not crazy, I'm just talking paradox. Ultimate truth is real also, yet the very existence of ultimate truth is a paradox. Don't you love paradox? I think I want to play a paradoxical rp now...

anyways... -_-

There are some trees that are knocked over that are alive...

i would like to also point out.


Are we not going to add a rp section just becaues one person doesnt want it? i mean sure there are some people who dont like it but, rps are well l33t, and red is the only person acually fighting about it, maybe if the admins could take some responbilty and look at this? i mean rps in my opinion pwn all the gay movies we got in the dldb. Also some other things.