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I don't think they used the word lame back then lol

they did, check it in the 'famous quotes' Albert Einstein's Mum's Dad's Grandson's Wife's Child's Dad said.

I was answering Sala's question!


What do you mean? Are you refering to the Trinity?


They MORE than make up for it with childbirth!


Totally different branch of christianity... I believe that is wrong and only faith can get you into heaven.



As i keep saying... Have fun in hell!

U're right, that buying into heaven is purely bull . Catholics really go too far into this. I really think Catholicism isnt truly christian but merits the right to form its own religion, because it totally exaggerates the true meaning behind christianity. Yes, it is bull how people are catholics. Virgin mary?? Cmon, Mary was just an ordinary woman who gave birth to Jesus. That doesn't make her some sort of... idol or something like that. Back in those old times, people like Calvin or w/e were trying to correct this pure bull and i think that's when the protestant thing was made but i could be wrong.

So let me get this straight.. you guys think that by taking a pure bull religion, and renaming it "Protestantism" without the corruptness, it is somehow good? The purpose of the original religion was still just for power. The only reason Christianity even spread was because Rome decided to take it up as their major religion. Why did they do that? Because it was FASHIONABLE... Yea that's right. The true spread of Christianity began as a fashion trend. Much like baggy pants. Hey, do you wear baggy pants? I wear baggy pants. Booyah. Baggy fluckin' pants.

Anyway, the very idea of God as an all-powerful being who created the Universe is self-defeating. By definition, if he's all-powerful, he's not a being. He's not even comprehensible. He certainly wouldn't have a form, nor would he have any use for creating things. He's all-powerful, he already knows everything that will happen when he does something. He doesn't do anything. Emotions and humanity are far beyond such a creature. How you can believe that he is all powerful and yet strangely human at the same time is beyond me. You can't have both, either he isn't really all that powerful, or he's so powerful that he never did anything in the first place and maybe there is a God but he sure as hell (figure of speech) doesn't have a thing to do with us.

Ironically, while you continue to claim he is all powerful, which by definition he must not be if he took the time to create us in the first place, you still believe that we are in control of our own decisions. Even if he were all powerful and he created us (which by definition he wouldn't) then we would have no control over our decisions! Randomization still wouldn't exist even in such a Universe, meaning everything that happens is based on his starting conditions which means everything you do is just a chemical reaction. Freewill is an illusion.

But anyway. If you assume that he isn't all powerful... which means your religion actually has some use... Well then people are actually.. omgawd.. in control of their own decisions and what not. But then again, he's not all that great after all. Also, since no religion actually supports this idea, you're wrong. Flucked. Gg no rm the only possible existing version of God isn't even in your religion. Bingo bango, you lose. So anyway, assuming that spontaneous generation is proved wrong, again, then this is what I believe.

Also, what is it with you people and only seeing your own religion? You don't see anything but what you have already been taught. It's like being a box and you can't seem to see anything on the outside of it. You can't even begin to grasp the idea that to a whole ton of people your religion is a bunch of lies. You know, those other religious groups that you also think are a bunch of lies? Yea, they think the same thing about you. You'll of course assume that you are automatically correct because your faith is automatically the true faith. You have no logic. None. You're an idiot.

Omg... posts are getting bigger and bigger.

CheeZe(U) : Now, you are being sexist. Women can do anything you can do (seriously, don't with this sentence). They are just as brilliant as men and possibly even smarter. I know plenty of smart girls.
Um, I wasn't being sexist at all. No where did I say they were stupid or they can't do what I do.

CheeZe(U) : Give me those questions that christianity can't answer. I'll even take on their role and answer it. Actually, I'll answer it before you say anything. "God did it."
Yeah... um... you're wrong.

CheeZe(U) : For the second part, what about the fossils that have similar bone structures as us? Links of other species that are similar but show slight changes through the different layers of rocks. Most people I used this with simply said "Maybe God did it." Wait a minute, wasn't that the answer for your questions?
Intricate(?) design. It's like how you can tell who sings a song because it's like their other songs. It's like how you can tell who wrote a book by its style. Why couldn't God have the same style for most animals?

CheeZe(U) : I'm not attack your religion, I'm attacking the bible. Which you have so much faith in. I don't care what religion you are, the bible contridicts it self and the idea of god being real is stupid to me. Just like you think evolution is stupid. Except I have science.
Show me these contradictions. You have found none so far.
Do you really "have" science? Sala seems to believe your logic is rather flawed. The fact that you believe evolution to be 100% truth is flawed in itself. Like I stated so many times, you accept it in blind faith.

CheeZe(U) : And yet, the bible cleary states there is one god. You know, this is more confusing than I thought.
Yeah, perhaps you should look deeper before trying to rip apart something you haven't even scratched the surface of. I know you are confused. You show it.

SaLaCiouS(U) : and once again the Bible is not fact, it is not even history...
Please. Go into the world of archaeology and see this for yourself. They found every city in the bible with biblical references. They never found sodom and gomarah though, why? Because it was nuked. All the wars and battles in the bible, yes they happen. There are many records from other civilations that are in line with the bible. Babylonians, Egpytians, etc. You want proof? You find it.

SaLaCiouS(U) : Actually Darwin who came up with the theory of evolution came around at the end of the 1800's I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I can live a hundred years, and we're very close to creating life, if it is possible we'll be done with it soon. Also, you seem to have Evolution and Spontaneous Generation mixed up. The two have nothing to do with eachother, Darwin for instance believed that God put the original cells on Earth. This is an entirely acceptable theory if you believe in God and Evolution. Also, even if Spontaneous Generation is disproven, again, then that God and Evolution theory still holds.
Uhhh... Evolution needs a start point. You think it might have been God? Is that what you'd believe if Spontaneous Generation is disprove yet again? What about afterlife then? If God created life why wouldn't there be an afterlife? So... what do you think of the possibility this father of evolution totally renounced it on his deathbed? Wouldn't matter, would it...

SaLaCiouS(U) : I explained my meaning very poorly. Basically what I'm saying is, why should we believe your religion? There are dozens and dozens of others. Why is your religion at the head of the pack? A little thing called the Crusades. Your followers went around murdering everyone who wasn't a Christian. Wow, nice religion you've got there.

So let me get this straight.. you guys think that by taking a pure bull religion, and renaming it "Protestantism" without the corruptness, it is somehow good? The purpose of the original religion was still just for power. The only reason Christianity even spread was because Rome decided to take it up as their major religion. Why did they do that? Because it was FASHIONABLE... Yea that's right. The true spread of Christianity began as a fashion trend. Much like baggy pants. Hey, do you wear baggy pants? I wear baggy pants. Booyah. Baggy fluckin' pants.

Also, another thing about your so called "salvation". When your religion was new, people were allowed to BUY their way into Heaven. The catholic church offered people free tickets to heaven if they payed them a bunch of money. Worse yet, they claimed you could BUY other peoples' way out of HELL. That is to say, if your grandfather was a sinner, you could pay the pope and he would say some magic words and magically your grandfather goes to Heaven! These are the roots of your religion, and it's all bull . What do you say to that?
Wow. You got the problems with catholics down. However, although it was already stated, roman catholicism is not christianity. You want a history lesson? Go to the library. I'll try to sum it up for you with my faded memory.
The papacy was a power of it's own. It was practically it's own government, seperate from the actual roman government. I believe it the papacy even had it's own seperate state. Yes, it was "fashionable" for them to use religion as control. They used religion to launch wars. There is a lot of interesting history in this roman catholic government.
However, due to it's teaching of an infalliable pope who can somehow be inspired by Jesus to speak his will, they added a lot of things to their teachings. Such was the buying of the papers. Yes, it was completely secular and used to raise money. I believe most of the money went to building the church of St. Peters(?). This event, I think, this was the last straw for Martin Luther. Martin Luther didn't want to make a new religion. Far from it, he wanted a reformation. He wanted to purify the teachings of the catholics. Thus he posted his 95 thesises. Of course, they refused. That's what started Lutherans, Calvin was somewhere in that mess and started Calvinists with some of their own variations of biblical teachings. It was just a massive branch off from there.
But why Luther? Why Calvin? There wasn't many bibles around. Bibles were chained down in the libraries. The common people couldn't read it because it was in latin. Church services worldwide were preached in latin. The common people didn't know latin. It kind of made things difficult for the common people to know what was going on.
I believe that might be an accurate summary. If you want to learn more, google it.
The bible is the truth. It doesn't matter what branch you align yourself to, or even, if you don't align yourself to any specific church. All that matters is that you stick to the bible's scripture and not warp it, especially, not warp it for your own religion's benefit (roman catholics). The bible wasn't created for power. Roman catholicism wasn't made for power, it turned out that way.

SaLaCiouS(U) : That reasoning is not bull . It's exactly what the Christians SAID they were doing! They told everyone that a woman is a weaker vessel because of her insatiability for sex. You can't deny factual information. You would have to be a fool to do so.
Show me where this took place. I know our religion never taught such stupidity. Again, probably roman catholics. Factual information, maybe, but it doesn't apply to me.

SaLaCiouS(U) : This is the logic behind you religious zealots. You all have your own version of what "salvation" is. You think that, oh, if I waste a large period of my life devoted to thanking some schizophrenic with a master plan far grander than Hitler's, I will automatically go to Heaven. That's bull .
Yes, many religions warp salvation. They teach good works are required to enter heaven. Lutherans? There is no good works involved for salvation. Salvation is a gift, something you simply recieve with faith. Good works are a product of faith. "Faith without good works is dead." Simply saying, if you have faith, you'd do good works naturally. You wouldn't do them to please yourself or to get some type of benefit. It'll just be natural. If you want me to find all the passages to support true salavation, I will.

With all this, if you want to launch attacks against my beliefs, don't use other religions as stand points. They don't apply to me. I don't care if they teach Satan was the one who had sex with Mary. It doesn't apply. Do try and understand that.

SaLaCiouS(U) : Yes he is. You are a fool. You don't know anything about your own religion or Islam. It's merely three branches of the same religion. The jews just don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, but are otherwise mostly similar. The Islamic people also have the addition of Mohammed's so-called new Holy texts. It is a well known fact that Mohammed was a schizophrenic who thought he could see angels. Anyone ever heard of the Mormans? Their leader said exactly the same thing as Mohammed did, but he was condemned. Why the double standard?
Actually, it's not the same religion simply becasue Jesus is required for salvation. Saying he was just a prophet makes it a different religion. Judism isn't a branch, it was pre-christianity.
Judism -> Christ died -> Christianity
Christianity is the 'next phrase' of Judism. We would all probably be a follower of Judism is the Jews accepted Jesus.
Islam is one ugly mess. Their quran definately contradicts the bible. Islam is nothing like Christianity. And yes, I did read parts of the quarn.
To believe they are all similar branches is rather stupid on your part. You obviously know less about christianity than I know about evolution.

SaLaCiouS(U) : Anyway, the very idea of God as an all-powerful being who created the Universe is self-defeating. By definition, if he's all-powerful, he's not a being. He's not even comprehensible. He certainly wouldn't have a form, nor would he have any use for creating things. He's all-powerful, he already knows everything that will happen when he does something. He doesn't do anything. Emotions and humanity are far beyond such a creature. How you can believe that he is all powerful and yet strangely human at the same time is beyond me. You can't have both, either he isn't really all that powerful, or he's so powerful that he never did anything in the first place and maybe there is a God but he sure as hell (figure of speech) doesn't have a thing to do with us.

Ironically, while you continue to claim he is all powerful, which by definition he must not be if he took the time to create us in the first place, you still believe that we are in control of our own decisions. Even if he were all powerful and he created us (which by definition he wouldn't) then we would have no control over our decisions! Randomization still wouldn't exist even in such a Universe, meaning everything that happens is based on his starting conditions which means everything you do is just a chemical reaction. Freewill is an illusion.
Maybe God felt bored. Maybe he wanted someone to talk to. If you were God, what would you do? You're telling me you wouldn't want to make something? That's like a programmer who is uber at C++ but doesn't program simply because it's a waste of his power or something? Probably not the best analogy, but whatever.
God, or rather the Son of God took on human form to die a perfect death. He 'needed' to still be God to conquer death, he needed to still be human to die. God by himself isn't human. Yes, he isn't compregensible. He did it in six days because that's the way he wanted to, why question it? Certainly, he could have created the universe in an instant.
No, we aren't robots. We do have freewill. Look at this way, if God wants us to love him and etc, would it really be love if we were forced to do it? Why can't randomization exist? Do you think he controls every aspect of his creation? Why would he? Yes, however, he has interferred with our lives. Usually, it was in order to show someone something. Angels probably interfere with our lives on a regular basis.
Humanity and emotions are beyond him? Have you ever owned a dog or a cat and loved it... took care of it... etc. Maybe you would understand something.

SaLaCiouS(U) : But anyway. If you assume that he isn't all powerful... which means your religion actually has some use... Well then people are actually.. omgawd.. in control of their own decisions and what not. But then again, he's not all that great after all. Also, since no religion actually supports this idea, you're wrong. Flucked. Gg no rm the only possible existing version of God isn't even in your religion. Bingo bango, you lose. So anyway, assuming that spontaneous generation is proved wrong, again, then this is what I believe.
Did I anwser this in the above statement?
Maybe you are so against religion because all you see and hear about are the 'flucked' up ones. Why not read the bible yourself.

SaLaCiouS(U) : Also, what is it with you people and only seeing your own religion? You don't see anything but what you have already been taught. It's like being a box and you can't seem to see anything on the outside of it. You can't even begin to grasp the idea that to a whole ton of people your religion is a bunch of lies. You know, those other religious groups that you also think are a bunch of lies? Yea, they think the same thing about you. You'll of course assume that you are automatically correct because your faith is automatically the true faith. You have no logic. None. You're an idiot.
As if. Catholics: Praying to the virgin mary? Somehow, they are blind to believe that this helps them. From a logical standpoint, it's completely illogical. God is all knowing. He knows what your prayer will be before you pray it. Why would one need Mary to intercede for us? God knows your prayer already! Things like this are completely evident as wrong.

Both of ya : Blah blah blah carbon dating blah blah blah sources
Here you go:
Freshly killed seal dated 1,300 years old (Antarctic Journal, vol.6 1971 p.211)
Living snails shells showed the have been dead for 27,000 years (Science, vol 224, 1984, pp.58-61)
1,680 year old coal in a supposed 300 million year old strata as well as a sabre-tooth tiger being 28,000 years. Tiger should have been 100,000-1 million years old. (Radiocarbon and Science Journal, vol 10)
All these pertain to the Carbon 14 dating method.

And here you go, assumptions made by scientists who are using various dating methods. Please take note the word assumption. Since when was such a word allowed in science?
1. Geological evidence is sufficient to establish that the suite of rocks being analyzed is a cogenic unit. The term cogenic unit implies that time during which the suite of rocks was formed is sufficiently short, compared to the true age of the rock, to allow an age to be estimated.
2. All samples had uniformity, with respect to the daughter isotope, when the cogenic unit formed. This means that over its whole area of occurrence, the geological unit was sufficiently mixed, with respect to daughter isotope, that the slope =0 can be assumed to be the initial conditions of the rock.
3. Deviations from uniformity, with respect to the daughter isotope, has been caused within the suite of rocks, only by radioactive decay of parents. In other words, the rock remained closed to loss or gain of daughter since the rock was formed.
4. The number of parent atoms has not been altered in the suite of rocks, by any geological process, except radioactive decay. In other words, the rocks remained closed to loss or gain of parents since the rocks formed.
5. The decay constant of the parent is known accurately, and has not changed during the existence of the rocks.
6. The abundance of parents and daughters have been determined accurately (laboratory measurements of Pt and Dt are accurate).



Btw, I believe our tutorials database needs a little evolving of it's own.

I like the color idea Isolated

Yeah... um... you're wrong.
And yet, you ask no question.

Intricate(?) design. It's like how you can tell who sings a song because it's like their other songs. It's like how you can tell who wrote a book by its style. Why couldn't God have the same style for most animals?
Because animals lived in difference environments. Then, go back to the evolution theory.

Show me these contradictions. You have found none so far.
Do you really "have" science? Sala seems to believe your logic is rather flawed. The fact that you believe evolution to be 100% truth is flawed in itself. Like I stated so many times, you accept it in blind faith.

Here are some contridictions.
Some more here.
The most puzzling thing is the order in which things were created. Tell me, how can light be created before the suns?

Please. Go into the world of archaeology and see this for yourself. They found every city in the bible with biblical references. They never found sodom and gomarah though, why? Because it was nuked. All the wars and battles in the bible, yes they happen. There are many records from other civilations that are in line with the bible. Babylonians, Egpytians, etc. You want proof? You find it.
That is probably because the Bible is based off real things. Thats like saying, look, they have witches and humans in that story. Humans exist, therefore, witches must exist. If you don't understand, replace witches with the word god.

Wow. You got the problems with catholics down. However, although it was already stated, roman catholicism is not christianity. You want a history lesson? Go to the library. I'll try to sum it up for you with my faded memory.
The papacy was a power of it's own. It was practically it's own government, seperate from the actual roman government. I believe it the papacy even had it's own seperate state. Yes, it was "fashionable" for them to use religion as control. They used religion to launch wars. There is a lot of interesting history in this roman catholic government.
However, due to it's teaching of an infalliable pope who can somehow be inspired by Jesus to speak his will, they added a lot of things to their teachings. Such was the buying of the papers. Yes, it was completely secular and used to raise money. I believe most of the money went to building the church of St. Peters(?). This event, I think, this was the last straw for Martin Luther. Martin Luther didn't want to make a new religion. Far from it, he wanted a reformation. He wanted to purify the teachings of the catholics. Thus he posted his 95 thesises. Of course, they refused. That's what started Lutherans, Calvin was somewhere in that mess and started Calvinists with some of their own variations of biblical teachings. It was just a massive branch off from there.
But why Luther? Why Calvin? There wasn't many bibles around. Bibles were chained down in the libraries. The common people couldn't read it because it was in latin. Church services worldwide were preached in latin. The common people didn't know latin. It kind of made things difficult for the common people to know what was going on.
I believe that might be an accurate summary. If you want to learn more, google it.
The bible is the truth. It doesn't matter what branch you align yourself to, or even, if you don't align yourself to any specific church. All that matters is that you stick to the bible's scripture and not warp it, especially, not warp it for your own religion's benefit (roman catholics). The bible wasn't created for power. Roman catholicism wasn't made for power, it turned out that way.
Those who sold the Indulgences are going to hell.
Those who changed the "real" religion are going to hell.
Those who fought in wars are going to hell.
Those who bought Indulgences are going to hell.

Yes, many religions warp salvation. They teach good works are required to enter heaven. Lutherans? There is no good works involved for salvation. Salvation is a gift, something you simply recieve with faith. Good works are a product of faith. "Faith without good works is dead." Simply saying, if you have faith, you'd do good works naturally. You wouldn't do them to please yourself or to get some type of benefit. It'll just be natural. If you want me to find all the passages to support true salavation, I will.

With all this, if you want to launch attacks against my beliefs, don't use other religions as stand points. They don't apply to me. I don't care if they teach Satan was the one who had sex with Mary. It doesn't apply. Do try and understand that.
Faith is not required to do good works though. I have helped plenty of people in my life. I have learned many things in my life. I have shown no faith since I have actually become aware of our own stupidness.

What other ideas are those? Give us examples of our own 'attacks' that used other religions but not yours.

God, or rather the Son of God took on human form to die a perfect death. He 'needed' to still be God to conquer death, he needed to still be human to die. God by himself isn't human. Yes, he isn't compregensible. He did it in six days because that's the way he wanted to, why question it? Certainly, he could have created the universe in an instant.
No, we aren't robots. We do have freewill. Look at this way, if God wants us to love him and etc, would it really be love if we were forced to do it? Why can't randomization exist? Do you think he controls every aspect of his creation? Why would he? Yes, however, he has interferred with our lives. Usually, it was in order to show someone something. Angels probably interfere with our lives on a regular basis.
Humanity and emotions are beyond him? Have you ever owned a dog or a cat and loved it... took care of it... etc. Maybe you would understand something.

(took out first part because it's crappy ) So, you're saying, God created Jesus. He went through a crappy life. He died. He was resurrected. And that helped us with redemption...how? I question anything that god did that took more power than needed. Basically, that's everything.

Also, Salacious has convinced me that Randomization is impossible.
His Reasoning (or as much as I remembered it):
If you had two identical universes at exactly the same time, and watched the same person at once, would that person do the exact same thing? Well, seeing how everything is done because of a condition, then yes. If the exact same conditions are met, you will always do the exact same thing in that time. This means, you cannot have the knowledge of what happened before, because that would be having more information and such.

As if. Catholics: Praying to the virgin mary? Somehow, they are blind to believe that this helps them. From a logical standpoint, it's completely illogical. God is all knowing. He knows what your prayer will be before you pray it. Why would one need Mary to intercede for us? God knows your prayer already! Things like this are completely evident as wrong.
Whats the point of praying if god knows it already? I'm not going to waste 30 seconds or more per prayer if god already knows it. Another thing, what Salacious is saying is how do you know you're the one who is correct? There are so many religions out there, all pointing at one another saying they are wrong. Which one is correct?
I love this quote(the best I can remember): "When you beging to deny the existance of other gods, you begin to deny the existance of your own god." (-DrunkenWrestler I believe)

Freshly killed seal dated 1,300 years old (Antarctic Journal, vol.6 1971 p.211)
Living snails shells showed the have been dead for 27,000 years (Science, vol 224, 1984, pp.58-61)
1,680 year old coal in a supposed 300 million year old strata as well as a sabre-tooth tiger being 28,000 years. Tiger should have been 100,000-1 million years old. (Radiocarbon and Science Journal, vol 10)
All these pertain to the Carbon 14 dating method.
You're assuming Carbon Dating is perfect. Do you even know how carbon dating works? Perhaps they simply did not have much carbon 14 in them?
Give me the sites you got these from, since I doubt you have these books/magazines and randomly looked through them and found it.

Cheeze(U) : And yet, you ask no question.
Why would I give you these killer questions? So you could succeed in attacking weaker christians? O.o

Cheeze(U) : Because animals lived in difference environments. Then, go back to the evolution theory.
Um? What?

Cheeze(U) : Here are some contridictions.
Some more here.
The most puzzling thing is the order in which things were created. Tell me, how can light be created before the suns?
Why can't light be created before sun? If you want anwsers to some specific contradictions in those huge lists, go ahead and point a few good ones out. There's no way I'm writting a massive report on all of them. I scanned the lists, some are just stupid, some are taking passages out of reference, and etc.
Although, if you cared to actually search, I'm sure you'll find a lot more intelligent responses than the ones I'll try to come up with.
And us, creationists, are the ones trapped in the box, right?

Cheeze(U) : That is probably because the Bible is based off real things. Thats like saying, look, they have witches and humans in that story. Humans exist, therefore, witches must exist. If you don't understand, replace witches with the word god.
Umm... no? Although, it kinda sounds like what I've said a couple of times about micro vs macro.

Cheeze(U) : Those who sold the Indulgences are going to hell.
Those who changed the "real" religion are going to hell.
Those who fought in wars are going to hell.
Those who bought Indulgences are going to hell.
Indulgences That's the word I wanted.
Those who fought in wars are going to hell? Ummm no. Perhaps if they thought that fighting these wars would earn them salvation. Those who bought indulgences? Quite possibly.

Cheeze(U) : Faith is not required to do good works though. I have helped plenty of people in my life. I have learned many things in my life. I have shown no faith since I have actually become aware of our own stupidness.

What other ideas are those? Give us examples of our own 'attacks' that used other religions but not yours.
And you do "good works" because... it makes you feel good. Tell me, don't you get this warm fuzzy feeling when you hold the door open for an old lady and she says thank you? Would it piss you off if she didn't say thank you? Maybe if you were completely honest with yourself, you'll learn that those aren't true good works.

The crusades, the indulengeces are examples of 'attacks' that don't apply to me.

Cheeze(U) : So, you're saying, God created Jesus. He went through a crappy life. He died. He was resurrected. And that helped us with redemption...how? I question anything that god did that took more power than needed. Basically, that's everything.
No, i'm not saying God created Jesus. Jesus is God. Jesus has always been God. The whole trinity concept.
Jesus lived a perfect life and died a perfect death. He is our substitute. He died so we don't have to.

Cheeze(U) : Also, Salacious has convinced me that Randomization is impossible.
His Reasoning (or as much as I remembered it):
If you had two identical universes at exactly the same time, and watched the same person at once, would that person do the exact same thing? Well, seeing how everything is done because of a condition, then yes. If the exact same conditions are met, you will always do the exact same thing in that time. This means, you cannot have the knowledge of what happened before, because that would be having more information and such.
Quite true. If someone kissed me at this exact point, I wouldn't recieve it too well because of my mood. If the same event happened over and over again at the exact time, yeah, it'll always be rejected. However, ultimately, it is still my choice what I would do with that kiss, no? Would I always make that choice, probably. Enter free will. Enter randomization. My choice in the matter would randomize the events that lead next. Although my path is already determined, it's determined because I already made the choices I will make.

Cheeze(U) : Whats the point of praying if god knows it already? I'm not going to waste 30 seconds or more per prayer if god already knows it. Another thing, what Salacious is saying is how do you know you're the one who is correct? There are so many religions out there, all pointing at one another saying they are wrong. Which one is correct?
If you don't pray, you aren't praying. Obvious statement. I guess you'll make me go deeper into this, right?

The bible is truth. Any religion that goes agains the bible isn't correct. It doesn't necessarily mean you won't get into heaven due to some misunderstandings, as long as you don't think buying indulegences is the only way to heaven, for example. Salvation is key, not if you believe in rapture or not.

Cheeze(U) : I love this quote(the best I can remember): "When you beging to deny the existance of other gods, you begin to deny the existance of your own god." (-DrunkenWrestler I believe)
Um, okay?

Cheeze(U) : You're assuming Carbon Dating is perfect. Do you even know how carbon dating works? Perhaps they simply did not have much carbon 14 in them?
Give me the sites you got these from, since I doubt you have these books/magazines and randomly looked through them and found it.
Actually, I didn't get them from any site. The flawed assumptions however, were copied and pasted. I knew about 3 of them, I could have chose to try to write them out, but I figured copying them would just be easier, and added bonus: all the cool scientific words would be in there .

Do you know how carbon dating works? It's your faith, you defend it. *Perhaps* isn't scientificial. Why so steadfast to hold to evolution?


Massive quoting is the suxx0rs. At least a massive find + replace only takes a few seconds.

Salacious: A little thing called the Crusades. Your followers went around murdering everyone who wasn't a Christian. Wow, nice religion you've got there.

Christianity is NOT a convert or die religeon! People in the crusades were under the misconception that everyone MUST convert, or they will be killed by them.



Cheeze: Those who fought in wars are going to hell.

Only if they did not repent, and truly beleive Jesus was their savior!



Cheeze: I have actually become aware of our own stupidness.

NOW you see it!


What other ideas are those? Give us examples of our own 'attacks' that used other religions but not yours.

The Catholocism thing:
Also, another thing about your so called "salvation". When your religion was new, people were allowed to BUY their way into Heaven. The catholic church offered people free tickets to heaven if they payed them a bunch of money. Worse yet, they claimed you could BUY other peoples' way out of HELL. That is to say, if your grandfather was a sinner, you could pay the pope and he would say some magic words and magically your grandfather goes to Heaven!
^ That! ^


He died. He was resurrected. And that helped us with redemption...how?

You guys just dont see it! He died for OUR sins, putting them on his shoulders, so that we would not be eternally separated from him! (We as in christians)



"When you beging to deny the existance of other gods, you begin to deny the existance of your own god." (-DrunkenWrestler I believe)

Howso? If we DIDN'T deny other gods, we would be denying our God!



Perhaps they simply did not have much carbon 14 in them?

They should still have sufficient amounts for carbon dating!



Have fun in Hell

Why would I give you these killer questions? So you could succeed in attacking weaker christians? O.o
So you admit these questions exist, but don't say it because it could destroy the christianity. You know them, you're crhistian. That's pretty ironic.

Um? What?
Different environments require different types of animals. Some are so "advanced" and hard to understand, people call them intelligent design (or whatever it was). Scientists can actually find out why they have certain things. The only things they can't explain would be 'random' mutations that didn't help, nor hurt the organism.

Why can't light be created before sun? If you want anwsers to some specific contradictions in those huge lists, go ahead and point a few good ones out. There's no way I'm writting a massive report on all of them. I scanned the lists, some are just stupid, some are taking passages out of reference, and etc.
Although, if you cared to actually search, I'm sure you'll find a lot more intelligent responses than the ones I'll try to come up with.
And us, creationists, are the ones trapped in the box, right?
Explain how someone can have light but not sun. Note that does is before 'matter' was created. Thus, technology and even a place to stand on doesn't exist yet.

Umm... no? Although, it kinda sounds like what I've said a couple of times about micro vs macro.
It doesn't take a genious to figure that one out.
They have god and humans in that story. Humans exist, therefore, god must exist

Indulgences smile.gif That's the word I wanted.
Those who fought in wars are going to hell? Ummm no. Perhaps if they thought that fighting these wars would earn them salvation. Those who bought indulgences? Quite possibly.
"You shall not kill."
Note that it doesn't give any specifics. It simply says, shall not kill. Any killing would go match up. I'll see you in hell for killing that ant.

And you do "good works" because... it makes you feel good. Tell me, don't you get this warm fuzzy feeling when you hold the door open for an old lady and she says thank you? Would it piss you off if she didn't say thank you? Maybe if you were completely honest with yourself, you'll learn that those aren't true good works.
I help people because it's cool to help. I don't care if you say anything. I learned, as long as I'm helping people, then I'm helping people. Whether or not they say Thank You, I don't care. Because I know I helped, and thats all it matters. See, god played no role in me doing good works.

The crusades, the indulengeces are examples of 'attacks' that don't apply to me.
It's within your religion as well as others. You can't say it doesn't apply to you because you haven't done it, because other people way back then accepted it. I'm pointing out their flaws. You still seem to reject it, even though it doesn't apply to you.

No, i'm not saying God created Jesus. Jesus is God. Jesus has always been God. The whole trinity concept.
Jesus lived a perfect life and died a perfect death. He is our substitute. He died so we don't have to.
Why was he our substitute? What, god felt sorry for us and killed himself? Or his son? Or whoever the hell it was? He didn't die a perfect death. He didn't live a perfect life. The story was created so we could feel sorry for ourselves. You know what? It's been almost 2000 years, get over it.

Quite true. If someone kissed me at this exact point, I wouldn't recieve it too well because of my mood. If the same event happened over and over again at the exact time, yeah, it'll always be rejected. However, ultimately, it is still my choice what I would do with that kiss, no? Would I always make that choice, probably. Enter free will. Enter randomization. My choice in the matter would randomize the events that lead next. Although my path is already determined, it's determined because I already made the choices I will make.
No, it's not your choice. Your choice has been determined already. If the exact same conditions are met, your reactions will ALWAYS be the same. It's impossible to any other way but that way. You think you have a choice. But really, your choice was predetermined.

If you don't pray, you aren't praying. Obvious statement. I guess you'll make me go deeper into this, right?

The bible is truth. Any religion that goes agains the bible isn't correct. It doesn't necessarily mean you won't get into heaven due to some misunderstandings, as long as you don't think buying indulegences is the only way to heaven, for example. Salvation is key, not if you believe in rapture or not.
Once again, you assume the bible is true. How many times have we told you to stop that? Think for one moment how your life would be if the bible were not true. Use that moment and answer my questions.

Um, okay?
You'll understand it once you use that moment above. If not, you're still accepting the bible as fact instead of doing what I asked for you to do. If you want me to accept the bible as true for a moment, I can do that. In fact, once, a very long time ago, I accepted the bible. Then, I finally realized the bible is just a load of crap. It's so obvious, but people believe it because God can do anything (except destroying humans).

Do you know how carbon dating works? It's your faith, you defend it. *Perhaps* isn't scientificial. Why so steadfast to hold to evolution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating

"You shall not kill."
Actually it says:
"You shall not murder"
What does this mean? We should fear and love God so that we do not hurt or harm our neighbor in his body, but help and support him in everyday physical need.
Websters Dictionary Definition of "Murder":
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
(link: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...murder&x=0&y=0)


I'm pointing out their flaws
Yes! Theirs! Not ours!


It's been almost 2000 years, get over it.
According to your theory, thats pocket change to a billionare!


Think for one moment how your life would be if the bible were not true.
I wouldnt have a life, Noone would. Existance would have never happened!


Have fun in Hell

ADDITION: http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/cartoon.htm
You all have "proof" against the bible, heres proof against evolution!

There you go again, giving God human characteristics. If he were truly all-powerful he wouldn't be a being and he wouldn't have human characteristics. To even say that he is all powerful and yet that he made us after his own form is a contradiction. A real all-powerful God would not create anything, he would not do anything. He would not even need to do anything or think at all. You cannot even attempt to give human characteristics to God, because once again, he is supposedly all-powerful, and therefore he is in no way mortal or emotional or any of these things you try to make him out to be. This is blasphemy against God!

I'd like to say that if you guys were raised on any other religion, you would believe in them 100%. You would act the same way, except with your own religion. If you were Hindu you would be forced to laugh and scowl at the pathetic Christians who actually believe all that crazy stuff in the Bible. The only reason you have so much faith in Christianity is because you were raised on it. That's why Cheeze has so much faith in evolution, because he was raised on it. Neither side seems to have any idea of the specifics behind either side and you both put up paltry arguments that are worthy of being on. Several times.

I should like to point out, that before Protestantism, there was no such thing as Catholicism. It was just called the Christian Church. It WAS Christianity. You're just following a spin-off of the Christian religion which later became known as Catholicism. More importantly, if you claim they are so corrupt that they change things, maybe they changed the Bible to suit their needs hm? Well I'm not going to go down this road anymore, if you fail to understand the facts of the origins of your own religion, then so be it. Ignorant fool! Oh yea, nice summary Isolated

I'm with Cheeze on at least one thing. Jesus was some schizophrenic guy who had this master plan to kill all the Jews by being a martyr and he lived a ty life and then he died. Get over it.

I still don't believe your Carbon dating assumptions. Even if those single examples are true, I have no doubts they figured out why they were so far off in the calculations and immediately fixed them. Some morons probably jumped to massive conclusions because of a small accident when a scientist forgot to carry a two. Wow, big fluckin' deal. If you test hundreds and thousands of rocks they're all going to prove the same thing. Who cares if one seal got hit with some crazy radiation causing super fast decay of the carbon-14 isotope which has a half-life of 5,730 years.

Two main problems with Evolution:



Actually it's pretty much a well established fact that the tremendously complex components of a life form are easily created by nature. The problem is just causing them to form into a single covalent life form. Which, has nothing to do with Evolution by the way. That's called Spontaneous Generation.



Actually there are a whole lot of these things called Cro-Magnons and the Neanderthals. We, the Neanderthals, kicked some Cro-Magnon ass and became the dominant species that eventually (in theory) evolved into humans. There is plenty of fossil evidence, which you're right, is our main evidence of whether evolution actually occured in the past. I don't know what your idea of "transitional forms" is but the whole idea behind evolution is species changing into other species.

Salacious(U): This is blasphemy against God!
And what YOUR saying isn't?


Salacious(U): We, the Neanderthals
You're a neanderthal?


Have fun in Hell

thats all i have to say, good job Kow, and for those who disagree with God...

It's more like, we don't care what we say towards religion because it really doesn't matter. I can say:
"OMG GOD SUx0rs LOolOLolOLOL NOoB. He is so noobish rofl..h1hahahh1"
and you know how much I would care? None. You probably would care though.

Neanderthals are pre homo sapiens.



NeoNightmareX
Stop Spamming. We don't need cheering. We need discussion.


Edit: I need to use these colors more. They're so sexy.


Thats so untrue. I was raised going to church every Sunday and crap. Until I realized we didn't do anything there except get free food. Which I am thankful for.

I will say going to church isn't a waste of time if you go for food. Otherwise, it is. I "changed" after I saw the pathetic reasoning of those who were very religious. Mainly because of this one guy at school.

STORY:
My friend told me that he asked the guy would he be christian if he were raised in the mountains who had no connections with the outside world and knew nothing of christainity. All they knew was their own god. The Guy's answer was yes. He would still be christian.

Now tell me, how close minded can someone get?

Evolution is true i mean to this day we are still evolving. We are slowly losing our tailbones. Simply cuz we dont use them.

ADDITION: i hope this whole thing was about evolution cuz i didnt read it! =/ only the last post

This isn't even about God anymore, it's about Christianity. You stupid flucking sons of bitatches can all flucking die. You don't believe in anything but your own religion and you are so d amned close minded you won't even acknowledge the existence of other religions. Cheeze's story is completely true you mindless mother fluckers. You are so zealous to your own religion that you have no brain anymore. No thoughts, nothing. You repeat everything some old guy read to you from a book that was written to mind control the masses. You are completely unable to look at anything from the outside. I can't even get through to you at all and this y post is my last cause im not reading this anymore. You've proved your own ignorance, thanks.

Awww Sala, it was just getting fun.

Alright, all you evolutionists, carbon dating is flawed. Get that through your heads. It's flawed because it NEEDS to make those asumptions I previously stated. Why? Mostly because people don't know all the specifics of the past. It assumes everything being dated was in some super extreme closed environment. It assumes uniformity. It assumes decay was constant throughout history. It assumes this and that. Take note that not all those assumptions have to be false, just ONE needs to be violated to screw up the whole dating system. So if you would realize the extreme possibility that your dates are off, what if... What if the world wasn't billions of billions of years old? It doesn't need to be 5,000 years, it could just be a million years old and evolution would be totally screwed. There is no way it could be possible for evolution to take it's course with a shorter time period. Your "undenible facts" are pure bs. They are "undenible" because they are necessary for evolution.

Cheeze(U) : You're assuming Carbon Dating is perfect. Do you even know how carbon dating works? Perhaps they simply did not have much carbon 14 in them?
Do realize what you just said here. You said carbon dating ISN'T perfect. Am I wrong? OF COURSE IT'S NOT PERFECT. It's far from it. So you're saying, well, maybe, those seals were screwed up some how. Don't you think it might be possible that the other tests were screwed ALSO? "Oh noez... I just got pwned." I'll like to add, that IF the bible was true, and the flood did take place, the massive amounts of water would have messed with C-14 in drastic measures.

Alright, moving on. Now I assume you know that evolution DOES need massive time periods to take place. I'll assume, by now, hopefully, you'll realize the faults in c-14 dating, as well as, any other dating system (it's funny how different dating systems give totally different dates for the same experiement, no?) So anyways, don't you think most scientists would just simply ignore their faulty system? Of course they would. It's necessary to. No no no, it's not possible for the sun to be constantly shrinking. That would mean a young universe. A young universe nullifies evolution completely. So you don't want to consider the sun, what about the moon? Scientists were afraid the first space shuttle would land on the moon and be BURIED in moon dust because it had so LONG to build up. What? There was only a foot maybe? What about our galaxy. The inner stars are winding up faster than the outer stars. If our universe was billions of years old, we wouldn't be a spiral galaxy, but rather, just a big cloudy blob (the winding up dilemna). We can talk about comets, our atomsphere, our earth in the same way. Scientists are blinded. They think "billions of years old" is a fact. They take that assumption and force it into every equation possible.

The evolution theory. Let's talk about science. The scientific process DOES state, for something to move from a hypothesis to a theory, it has to be testable, right? Yes. It does. How the hell is evolution testable? We can test and observe evolution taking place? Of course not. So it's not even a theory, it's just a simple random hypothesis. Hypthoesis itself means assumption. Assumption. Not theory. To deny all this is to deny the very essence of science. gg no re. But but but... we have fossils! That won't suffice here.

The lack of transistory fossils. Did you agree with the words you quoted or just wanted to attack it? None the less, it's not just humans. There's a lack of transistory fossils between all the species groups.


In reply:

SaLaCiouS(U) : I should like to point out, that before Protestantism, there was no such thing as Catholicism. It was just called the Christian Church. It WAS Christianity. You're just following a spin-off of the Christian religion which later became known as Catholicism. More importantly, if you claim they are so corrupt that they change things, maybe they changed the Bible to suit their needs hm? Well I'm not going to go down this road anymore, if you fail to understand the facts of the origins of your own religion, then so be it. Ignorant fool! Oh yea, nice summary Isolated
True. It simply was christianity at that point, at least, somewhat. Yes, it had the name "The Christian Church," but, was it really christian if they were selling papers to get into heaven and not preaching about christ-focused salvation? So no, it's not just a spin-off. Christian religions are based on the bible, or at least, should be. Lutherans, Baptists, etc take no root in Catholisim.

They didn't change anything. The scriptures in their orginal languages were also translated by Martin Luther himself. It was another one of the great things he did, along with translating and writing hymns. Could it be possible that a few words here and there got screwed up over the course of time? It is likely. Does it mean anything? Not really.

"Nice summary" -> Sarcasim or not?

SaLaCiouS(U) : This isn't even about God anymore, it's about Christianity.
Weren't you the one who started the whole religion vs religion thing by trying to attack our faith with "crusaders" and "indulgences"? I believe so. It was a stupid attack that need correction on. You brought it into the topic. Not us.
And then you start with the mindless flaming... I proved my own ignorance? It's not my choice to be ignorant. I have no freewill. Well, according to you anyways. So you really shouldn't be so mad this is how I am, it's meant to be.

Cheeze(U) : No, it's not your choice. Your choice has been determined already. If the exact same conditions are met, your reactions will ALWAYS be the same. It's impossible to any other way but that way. You think you have a choice. But really, your choice was predetermined.
SaLaCiouS(U) : Freewill is an illusion.
Your choice was predetermined. How can my "choice" be predetermined if there is no choice, no freewill?
If there is no freewill and no choices, wouldn't the fact that I believe in God unescapable? If so, what's the whole point of this arguement? I can't choose to change my mind, no?
Freewill, choice, randomization: If there is no randomization, there is no choice, there is no freewill. So, if there is no randomization, my future is destined to happen one way. Now, if that's the case, everything that will happen is forced to happen. Whether or not this girl and I get married, it's all predetermined. So if it's our fate, I can lay back and it'll happen because it's meant to happen. No... because I wouldn't have the choice to lay back or actually work towards our marriage. It's not... my decision? It's not people's decision if they will work or not? Wow, and I hated the fact my taxes went to poor bums who refused to work. I thought it was their choice not to work. No, it's just their destiny, an unavoidable destiny that I shouldn't complain about because they can't change it.
You are way over your heads.

Cheeze(U) : I'm not as blinded as you think. It's simple, there are two choices. One is evolution. One is creation. I vote evolution. Anything that is for it, I will support.
THERE IS NO CHOICE!!!!11111.
Anyways, if you look at this statement a little bit harder... you'll realize how blind you actually are. But then again, how can the blind "look"?

Speaking of blind...
n2o-Simpsons : i hope this whole thing was about evolution cuz i didnt read it! =/ only the last post
No intention of finding out the truth... doesn't even bother reading all the posts... how sad is that? "Simply cuz we dont use them." Um, sure...

Cheeze(U) : Once again, you assume the bible is true. How many times have we told you to stop that? Think for one moment how your life would be if the bible were not true. Use that moment and answer my questions.
Okay, that was retarded. My "bible is truth" statement was in a pure religion vs religion statement, not religion vs logic/evolution/etc. We were talking talking about "why my religion? why not catholics? why not baptists?" and religious etc. That is where the "bible is truth" statement comes into play. You like to pick out little phrases and try to bash them. Keep them in context.


Us, humans, are not simple life forms. Do you have any idea how extremely complex we are? All the systems in our body... every aspect of it... take even our brain alone... all occured with random mutations? Just take a moment and imagine how preposterous that is. NOW add in every species of animals, birds, fish, insects, and plants. Can you see my doubts? Plants vs animals. What came first? Did the plant turn into an animal or a animal turn into a plant? Either way, a moving form of something had to decide to become stationary somehow. I guess... randomly and over the course of time and GRADUALLY, a moving form became stationary?

Personally I believe ALL the above theories so...

You want to know the real improtant quetions of life? here they are:
1) why are fun sized candy bars so small. Wouldnt it be more fun to have a bigger candy bar?
2) why is it that when guys talk to a hottie, they always think of the perfect thing to say 3 minutes after the conversation?
3) where is the line that separates the sane from the insane?
4) if we use our brains to do everything why dont we know how they work?
5)Why would someone buy the regular edition of Halo 2 when they can have the limited edition for ony $5 more and a DVD on the making of Halo 2?
6) "If God is allpowerful, can he create a rock that he cannot move?"
7) does paying your phone bill restrict you freedom of speech?
8) Why does nickelodion have "You pick live" when its only live on the East coast?
9) Who invented the internet?
10) Why is the crotch the center of the most pain ever experienced in someones lifetime?

Hm, I don't even know where to start or if I should bother. I do have one inquiry myself. That is, why do creationist tend to only attack carbon dating, while ignoring the other methods of dating, such as Argon, which is pretty accurate?

Click here for more info in carbon dating.

Check out this parody where antibiotics are refuted using techniques borrowed from creationist attacks on radiometric dating.

Common questions/misconceptions can be answered here:
Talk Orgins FAQ
Talk Orgins Index
Flawed Creationist Claims (By a Blizzforums poster)
The Official God FAQ