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i think people have just created religions over time because theyre asking themselves the same question..."what is the point of life"


but personally, if you use a religion that has serious faults in personal requests of how one should behave, ill have an objection to that religion. but since religions often enforce appropriate behavior and an effort to be better, i could never pull myself to have an objection with that particular religion. but a good deal of religions dont give people an completely bright outlook to life itself. what i consider a good outlook might not be what others consider.


i think a constant effort to be better in regards to behavior, self-control, and just being reasonable constitutes that outlook and a lot of religions encorporate the wrong things into this outlook.

but to answer the question...life is what you wanna make of it. if you dont wanna make anything of it, get a job in a cubical and spend your life there. if not, do/be what you want to be.

"if A+B+C=D and D=Life, A=work, B=play, and C=keep your mouth shut"

ADDITION:

if we dont put some restrictions on 'choice' then our society wouldnt be as advanced as it is. we wouldnt have doctors or medicine to save loved ones, or computers to enhance our free-time

ADDITION:
Amen

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."
- Frank Lloyd Wright

gg

Ok, since this thread is about to go byebye, I must say that we all agree on my idea, which is the most fun one. Ok, end of discussion, period, byebye. PLAY THE GAME, EAT THE CHOCOLATE.....

Im sorry to burst your bubble pekkel... but im gonna start this convo again and conclude this post... ha...


I truly believe that the reason of life is what you set it to become...
meaning, if you think the very reason of your existance is to perish without reason... then you are doomed to your own judgementation...

our origins aren't well known, we do not know about our pasts, nor do we know about what happened before or lifetimes to the point of human creation.. there is no set reasoning, nor will there ever be. And is a waste of time just to argue about the reasons of god, and his intentions... nor do I even know if he exists or not... if we really look at it... HOW can we say that he exsists? You can't just use some illegitimate "evidence" and say he lived...


putting this to short conclusion:

In my eyes...
The point of life is to:
to create a legend, to create your legend, to create your children... to survive...
this is the main reason or how I feel about it... there are many other things that can happen in between is up to you....

Yeah... and to quote EzDay:
What is the point?

See... now if you take God out of the picture and we are just some creatures that happened at random with nothing to look foward to in the afterlife... what is the point? If you create a legend... so what? You die, end of story. It's not like you can bask in your own glory when you are dead. Children? Who cares... when you die, it's not like they exist anymore, at least, to you: you're dead.
What is the point...


To show our graditutide and thanks for everything he does done for us. But before you say "what is the point of...", stop and think. You are trying to find a "self-justifiying purpose" in something that should be completely unselfish. It's defeating the purpose -> it isn't thanks/worship/graditude. What is the point of saying "Thank you" or "I'm sorry" to someone in life? To please yourself? For your own purpose? If it is, your thinking really is distorted.

it's not an accomplishment for others to notice, it's a feeling of self-accomplishment. whether or not there is life after death or the fact that nothing exists "to you" after you die is irrelevant.

as for your "Who cares"...by that rationale, it would be a-o-k if i decided one day "Hey, i think ill kill that random guy over there and then go home and kill myself. that way it wont matter that he's dead because i'm dead too-nothing exists after i'm dead. oh while i'm at it, i think i'll kill my children since they won't exist to me after i die anyway."

i think that we need a god in to keep order in the world if people went around thinking that after they die its over nothing but eternal blackness then dont you think roberies murder and rape would skyrocket




and i if i were god things would be much different i wouldnt be currupt or anything but people would definitly know that i exist and i would not hesitate to show the horrible wrath if they need conversion

But you're God the omniscient. You knew centuries ahead of time before someone is even born if he will be born a believer or not. You know his actions even before he makes them. You will know even before he does if he will become a believer or not when he dies. So how is it just that you send him to Hell for being less than what you created him to be? Is God sadistic? I guess you missed the point of that post. Besides, why is it something as meager as belief that is the determining factor to be admitted into heaven?


It's more like you're not aware a person is holding a gun at your head, and he is very stealthy. He gives absolutely no sign he's there, and you're totally oblivious to him. There is no reason to suspect he exist, no warning signs. Yet, if you don't figure out he's there, he gets angry and shoots you.


This just totally fails to address my post. Re-read and try again. I was seriously thinking about just skipping your post because it was incoherent and either you had some trouble with the BB code and didn't try to fix it, or you deliberatly tried to obfuscate my quotes.

ADDITION:
Or maybe, God being the celver sadist that he is, just needs someone else to blame. See, if god was evil, not too many would still love him. Therefore, he purposely creates angels that will become corrupted to create a huge story about how satan is an agent of evil so they will see God as the good guy, and what an evil corrupted angel satan is (he knew that would happen to when he created Satan, because he is omniscient, isn't he? He knew which would turn good and which would turn bad). Then, God plans to make a justifiable reason to doom mankind, like how Bush made a justifiable reason to invade Iraq by alleging WMDs, by planting a tree, and intelligently designing Adam and Eve's so that they will take the apple. He even put an evil snake with 1337 social skills to ensure the transaction. He knew Adam and Eve would fail the test when he made them because he is omniscient.


A variety of methods can be used, each one giving consistent answers. If anyone has refuted any current radiometric dating method, he needs to claim his Nobel Prize.


Maybe all the misconstruacies are all in your head.


I think it might have something to do with half-lives. Even if you don't understand how radiometric dating works, there are thousands of scientist that do, ,and it has nothing to do with making a guess, and picking a dating method that agrees with it. That's a funny strawman refutation though.

One slightly off-topic question: How old do you think the Earth is IP?

ADDITION:
So God can predict what choices I will make and does knows what choices I will make? God already knows if I will believe or not when I die? So do I not really make a choice, and every choice I make is only pseudorandom?

If you God created us, shouldn't you just be a bit curious about what created God?

You're absolutely right. I am curious how the first life came into existence. But again, this has no bearing on what evolution is. Since science is ignorant of that fact, maybe you could say it was god. Science never claimed to have all the answers anyway.


Again, what I want has no bearing on what is. I don't want to believe that there are starving children in poverty in third world countries, but that's no going to change the fact that there are starving children in poverty in third world countries, is it? I would hate to resort to that logic.


"The description of the Big Bang is not really one that lends itself well to common language. saying "time began there" is nonsense really since as we approach the hypothetical singularity, time and space become mixed together so much that space "begins" there too."
-Jet Black, persontal PM from http://www.christianforums.com/f9


Why not? Why does it have to come from anything? Why can't it just simply exist?

And according to your logic, God simply can not have "always existed." That isn't logical.


I'm actually ignorant of that fact. But there must have been lots and lots of quantum mechanics involved.


What seperates belief evolution or any subject of science is that the belief is based on logical evidence, not faith.


Why not? Does God send to Hell those who believe in evolution?

Maybe one of the test to get in to heaven is to ignore the errors of fact written in the bible and believe that evolution is true. Maybe God put a few landmines in the bible as a test to see if people can figure with their own rationale and free will which verses in the bible represent reality, and which actually don't. Now I don't believe on that premisis and believing because "just in case" isn't really believing, none the less... I can afford to believe in evolution. You, however, can't


No, it's the lack of one. Unless you want to say that non-belief in esoteric claims such as vampires is a religion too.


Wouldn't the fact that we don't have an afterlife only make our current life more valueble? Shouldn't we enjoy it while we still have it? If you have ice cream, and you knew that it would be the last ice cream you ever had, is it just pointless it eat it since it'll be all gone once you finish? Shouldn't you just enjoy it and wouldn't it's value increase because it's now scarce?

Uh huh, okay. We can all believe what we want to believe bacause it's our belief, thats how it works. And if many people didn't believe in God, they would think they could do anything they wanted and blow everyone up, yep. But the truth is.... we are monkeys! Ahhh!!! Monkeys with big brains! Ahh!!!

Those damn atheist are always starting holy wars!

(this is going way way back to uh what isolatedpurity said in post)

Did you create mankind, isolatedpurity?

no...

So how can you tell me how to feel on life? or if my views are wrong or right...





Do you know EXACTLY what happens when we die, isolatedpurity?

no...

so why did you say that we are nolonger exsistant and that we dissapear and our future generations will do the same?








okay and now going into another whole thing....

WHATS THE POINT OF THE HUMAN RACE?
im my eyes...
its to create a legend...
and by legend I mean extending the survival of the human race...
its kinda like animals, their animal instincts tell them to persue the insurance of their future brood. Animals always breed with strong mates to make them stronger then before, and their purpose is this. Human's purpose is similar, in fact, almost the same... we ARE trying to create more brood and create more and more humankind... why? its animal instincts... we may have other meanings for life but... I feel this is how it is... our conscience tells us there must be another way... but... yea...

and yea... self accomplishment... it doesn't matter how you affect the world with your voice... though you may be known... id rather live a life of happy fulfillment and bliss... prove to YOURSELF that you have lived a great life... don't let others judge on how to live, or if life is worth living, or the prupose of things...
(erm... its a bit ironic, cause im telling you to not think...)


SO IFjldsifjals;idfjadimcaliwme;c i whatever.... kill this thread...

I couldn’t have said it any better. Basically, God wanted us humans to have the freedom of choice, and as a result, we are what we are now instead of still being in the Garden of Eden.
Ok, let’s suppose for a moment something did create God. This thing is named “Sam”. According to your way of thinking, something must have created “Sam”. This something could be called “Sally”. Since Sally created Sam, something must have created Sally. This thing is called Harold. And on and on it goes. Now, shall I go on naming names and things? Or shall I say that some things (as Tovoc from startrek voyager learned) are illogical.


Wow, someone needs to calm down. BTW, I think that quote applies to you because I have yet to see you post anything on “for God” or between “for God” and “against God”.


Sure, it might not be logical, but that is why there is something called “faith” that God has existed, exists, and will always exist.

I'm not understanding ya... First, it wasn't my intention to tell you how to feel on life or judge your views... I'm just basically saying, what's the point? In the end, nothing matters.
All I know is there is an afterlife... I can only fantasize what it's going to be like. I dunno, you tell me if we cease to exist after we die, besides in memories that fade when those close to you die.


Surely not billions of years old.


The universe couldn't have always existed because there would have had to be an infinite amount of years in the past. If that was so, all the events that are happened now would have already happened infinity amount of years ago. I'm applying my own thoughts of logic of infinity here, which shouldn't be possible because I'm a brainless creationist, right sala?
God isn't subjective to time because God created time. Time really doesn't exist, like I already said.

I would like to know how some animals randomly evolved highly complex systems with very slow mutations over time. Some things just can't build up on each other like that.
Things like basic instinct... a female spider (tralatula?) kills her mate and lays the eggs inside of him, buries him underground so her babies have something to feast on while they grow up... that was random?
Billions of years seems way to small for everything to evolve like it did... maybe it'll be a bit more pausible with trillions upon trillions of years. All species from a one cell organism? That... is logical? It's more believable to think aliens came to earth and played around like some freaky science lab.

With the carbon dating... I dunno man, every evolutionist thing I've ever read stated things using carbon dating as their measuring tool. I'd like to know what sala things of carbon dating only being good for 50,000 years. So much for that "unarguable fact" right? Ya'll contradict each other too much. I am super confident that carbon dating was used to come up with most evolution dates... since when did it change? Seriously though, funny strawman arguement but how long will it take until argon dating is replaced and we find out the earth is really 74 billions old now?

All dating systems make assumptions. They assume a closed environment, they assume an unchanging decay rate, they assume this and that...

Science has always required observation, hasn't it? With evolution, it only requires observation of the end result?

"To show our graditutide and thanks for everything he does done for us. But before you say "what is the point of...", stop and think. You are trying to find a "self-justifiying purpose" in something that should be completely unselfish. It's defeating the purpose -> it isn't thanks/worship/graditude. What is the point of saying "Thank you" or "I'm sorry" to someone in life? To please yourself? For your own purpose? If it is, your thinking really is distorted."

And what does that change?
What is the point in fulfilling someone else's existance, if he has no point for being happy, or whatever?
And I don't believe in unselfishness.
My belief is that every action that a man intentionally takes, is either because of something he cannot consciously detect, or because he gains something from it, be it money, food, grattitude, or even self-satisfaction at knowing that you are not a greedy bastard.
When people think of selfishness, they generally think of knowledge, money, or physical posessions, but people also enjoy gratifaction, recieving thanks, or knowing that they are good, generally.

EDIT:
"If I'm wrong and evolution is right... I die and cease to exist, oh well. If I'm wrong and christianity is right... I die and go to hell for eternity... yeah... that would suck. Now I don't believe on that premisis and believing because "just in case" isn't really believing, none the less... I can afford to be wrong about evolution. You, however, can't."

And the chance of Christianity being correct is only the same as any other religion being correct, not to mention the octillions upon octillions of other possible religions that someone could make up.
So, basicaly, believing in Christianity only gives you a theoretical 1/1000000000000000000000000000(yes, I actualy counted the number of 0's...) chance of not going to Hell.
EDIT 2: In fact, I find certain aspects of it to be slightly less likely then many other religions, though of course, about 99% of the possible ones are also less likely.
I mean, why would someone who has absolute love of all his creations and already knows their paths in life punish them, his beloved children which he created with their paths already known, with the worst possible punishment he can think of?

From Exit Mundi (Dreamsend ending extracts):









Was our universe created by another Über advanced society of aliens? Could these alien's have also created some other ones as well? Are they running the "bubble" universe experiments to determine what created them? Could a "god" (oh, I'm sorry . . . "God") have created this society for some reason? Could this society, interested in proving the existence of this "God" have created these universe bubbles and seperate Governing entities to test the results? Is everyone in this society named "Sam"?

That raises the question - "What created their "God"?". We return to our holy-war thread. Perhaps this "God" did not create a Bible. Perhaps this "God" is not evil. Perhaps this "God" was created by another one. But what created that God?

Once again, we return to the endless plane of nothingness that is the timeless container for the bubbles. Was there some fault in the structure of this nothingness that somehow created the "God" running this society? How does this nothingness exist then?

It is quite simple - the nothingness was created by a Dream, or a Thought, or a Computer. I know it has been said before, and that it has been attacked by all - those with faith and those without. But it all comes down to the fact. No matter where your faith goes, sit down and think about it for a minute. No matter what you believe, it will end up with a chain of creation. The chain of creation will always come down to the same conclusion. We, our pool of nothingness and all within it, were created by another group from another existence. This existence holds laws of being and creation that we, in our petty knowledge, could never comprehend. It is a place where concepts that are impossible here are possible. It is a place run by the science defined by us - in a way. We have found the science, but missed it's meaning. There IS a way in which our science can invert itself to another, logical, conclusion - we are simply too trained by our parents and schools to understand it.

So that leaves us with the final question . . . what DOES happen to you when you die? Unfortunatly, it is a fate in which we all fear but somehow know. When we die, we cease to exist - an endless period of blackness, of no thought, of no movement, of no strength.

Hope for you? Yes. Since a greater reality created us, and another one created that one, perhaps it is possible for the governing one to revive you - not into a "heaven", but reborn in your "bubble universe". Does this greater existence include a "God"? Maybe. Does this satisfy both sides of the war? Hopefully.

Is somebody going to argue with me? Yes, probably more than 1. Why do I keep asking myself questions in this manner? I do not know, probably because I am crazy.

I will leave you all at that, my brain hurts and I'm going to bed. Goodnight. (And no, I will reply in this thread no futhur, only leave you with this).

So you are saying that we could have been created by a huge hoard of flying pink elephants?



We know for a fact god did not create the bible...



nothingness has always existed because the lack of something is nothing.



I don't see why we would have to have been created by another race, we know for sure that the stuff that created us has been in our universe for billions of years.



Prove it...



You just said we become nothing when we die...



You seem to be.

*sigh*

I shouldn't have read this last post but now that I have I just have to reply...



Yes.



I'm sorry, I don't know anything about your religion. My knowledge is based on gathered facts, so sorry about that. Anyways, the rest of my theory still makes sense even if "God" did not create the bible.



Thanks for agreeing.

Question :

Answer :



Post your theory and prove it. In the end, all of our theorys are basically unprovable (with the exception of those disproved by science, which this one cannot). You ask the impossible. So does that mean that my theory is false? No. It isn't "Innocent", only "Not Guilty". Though some criminals are "Not Guilty", that does not make them "Innocent". Though some innocent people are "Not Guilty", that does not mean that they are guilty.



A + B = C if C -B = A.
Put A and B together, and you will find that we become, but only initially.



Only partly. Who is the crazy one? The suspected Innocent man declared "Not Guilty" but assumed to be "Guilty"? Or is it the person assuming?

So does God not know when I turn 80, that I won't be a believer? Did God not know that there would be a forbidden fruit that Adam would eat of when he created him? Or can God not see into the dimension of time that he confined us in, and therefore is not omniscient?


That actually wasn't my way of thinking. Since IP asked me, "If you believe in evolution, shouldn't you just be a bit curious about the existance beforehand?" I simply asked him the same question.

Really though, how come it seems to many Christians that a being that always just existed and created everything is perfectly plausible, but a universe just simply existing is unthinkable? If God didn't have to be created, why did the universe have to?


I was being sarcastic, I guess I failed to convey that.

In an earlier post, pekkel said, "And if many people didn't believe in God, they would think they could do anything they wanted and blow everyone up, yep." Which implies that atheist lack morals. I wonder if the only reason pekkel has even a single shread of decency in him is because his morality is only proportional to his religion. If his religion went to s***, I hope he wouldn't pull a Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. You know, jacking cars, blowing things up with the tank, shooting pedestrians, etc. Me on the other hand, I don't need religion for morality.


Well, seeing how that post had something to do with morality and not who's side I'm on, that's pretty incoherent. Why should I have to post anything for God? I haven't seen you post anything against him. I haven't seen you post anything for Allah, Zeus, or Anubis. Should I post things for them too, even though I don't believe in them?


You have faith in something that's not logical? Would you believe me if I asked you take take the existence of square circles entirely by faith?

ADDITION:
Ok, but that's contrary to what radiometric dating has found.

If your one of those who belief the earth is only 6,000 - 10,000 years old, did you know that you can tell the age of a tree by counting it's rings? If a tree had 100 rings, it would mean that it is 100 years old. The same can be done with ice caps. The ice builds a thin layer every year and scientist have drilled a hole in it and counted more than 50,000 layers.


Huh? Events that already happened?


So, saying what was before God is totally meaningless right? And when God created time, t equaled zero at some point. As you said earlier, "WTF? How can something happen without time? It's just one big stupid mess." So, God doesn't have to be subject to time, but all the quantum mechanics that exploded into the big bang had to be? That makes as much sense as God creating the universe, and God just simply exist.


Even if science didn't know, does that verify creationism by process of elimination? If creationism was falsified, would the theory that we're actually in the Matrix be verified regardless of it's lack of scientific facts supporting it?


Maybe you're right! For example, cicada killer wasps have a unique fatality for their prey. The females hunt for cicadas, stings them with a paralyzing agent, and bury them in a hole they dug. She lays eggs next to the helpless cicada and flies off. When the eggs hatch, the baby wasp begin to devour the cicada, eating the body first, and the brain last, so that the helpless cicada feels agonizing pain during the process.

The candiru catfish, located in the Amazon and South America, is small enough to swim up the penis of a man and lodge intelligently designed state of the art sharp spines so securely, that the only resort is surgical removal or amputation. What a nasty problem for evolution, eh? (For the victim as well).

The Babirusa hog of Indonesia grows its tusk until it pierces the area between it's skull! Can such a complex system just evolve? Or is this the mark of a slaughter oriented sadistic designer? Tornados, famine, death. Can all that be a result of chance, or the deliberate hand of an intelligent pain inflicting engineer?

Seriously now, with natural selection and the ability for organ system functions to change as evolution progresses, complex systems are not only possible, but expected.

For example, something as complex as the eye couldn't be the result of a single mutation. It would require many transitional phases. One of our early ancestors probably had a mutation for a light sensitive spot on the skin. That trait got naturally selected because it had a survival advantage over those who didn't have something that could detect light, making it easier to evade predators. The species with the benefical trait out-performed the ones who didn't have the trait and had a higher success rate of reproducing, superseding them. So now an entire population of that specie has the trait for a light sensitive patch. After more and more random mutations, eventually, applying the law of truely great numbers, one of those creatures will have a benefical mutation that creates a depression in the light sensitive patch, making the vison slightly sharper. That trait gets selected, and the process continues so something even as complex as the eye can develop.

On another note, mutations aren't always perfect, even if they are benefical. Such designs in organ systems are called "jury rigged." Such as the human eye, where the blood vessels are in front of our light sensitive cells. It was a benefical mutation, but it isn't a perfect design. What intelligent designer would put the wires of a camera in front of the lens?



http://www.skepticreport.com/creationism/vestigial.htm#eyes

ADDITION:
It's probably just all in your head. Or maybe it's because you often hear creationist cite misuse of carbon dating voluminously.


Who knows. Scientist accept whatever the data says even if it contradicts their own pet theories. That's much better than adhereing to your own pet beliefs. If we find a flaw in something, we don't change the facts to fit the theory, we change the theory to fit the facts. We could even be wrong about the fact that the Earth is round. If new evidence proves otherwise, we accept that fact. To the best of our knowledge, the Earth is round, and the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old.


What exactly do you mean by closed enviornment? From what I understand, the decay rate of something is as constant as the speed of light is constant.


Scientific data is accumulated in many other ways than visual observation. The existence of many identical DNA sections in all living things is very strong evidence for common descent. We've also observed evolution directly.


And perhaps non-belief is safer than belief. Perhaps God uses the Bible as a lure for idiots and only lets atheist and agnostics into heaven. So a member of any religion who beliefs "just in case" takes the same amount of risk as an atheist.

Tarh, the universe isn't tuned for life. Life is tuned for the universe. If we had a different universe with different constants, we might have a different kind of life. The main flaw with intelligent design is that they predict things "as they are." Gravity, precipitation, position of plants. If A didn't happen, B wouldn't result. So what? What if C happned? D would result, and perhaps if whatever exist in there is sentient and capable of thought, they might start saying the universe is tuned for THEIR life. And out of ignorance, they might just conclude it's some sort of god.

You are right though, that even if we disprove a holy book, we don't disprove a god.

First off, how could something explode if there is no time? How can something happen without time existing? Object X moves Y meters over Z seconds. You need time otherwise there isn't movement. So how is a dot exploding, let alone, this explosion creating time logical? How can an atom exist if electrons aren't moving? If electrons aren't moving, how can things react? Even if it was all possible, what the hell was this dot doing before it exploded? Nothing obviously, because there is no time! Ugh... How the do people think of these things.

Anyways, the universe couldn't have always existed. If it did, time would be limitless... yes? Now if time extended infinite amount of years in the past, today should have always happened yesterday and yesterday should have happened the day before. See, infinity has no ending. I don't see how you don't understand this and consider the universe always existing. There is no reason I shouldn't have existed an infinite amount of years ago. If it took 70 million years for man to evolve from an ape to a human, where does those 70 million years start? A infinite amount of years ago.

Yeah, I can so beleive in evolution because evolution doesn't care what happened before the first cell.


Systems do not equal instincts. I suppose the internal core of every species brain was constantly having it's own mutations? I guess somehow, a supplementary mutation in their brain would have to co-existed with a mutation in their body. We have birds... and then we have birds who mutated the desire to fly south every winter? Did the birds say "damn, it's too f'ing cold in wisconsin... but i love the unique flavor of berries here... let's start flying south for the winter and come back when it's warm."
If you modified a rat to have wings, would it even bother attempting to fly? Now let's say evolution has a rat evolving into a bat... wouldn't these small mutations of wings generally pose a problem? It's not like they can be as sneaky and etc with some extra parts growing out of their bodies. How would non-working complex systems that don't pose an immediate advantage make a species wide effect? If every little mutation didn't pose an immediate advantage, why would natural selection favor them?

How do fire/acid/poison spitting creatures work? Did they evolve this production method of creating acid/poison and then did creatures quickly say 'hey man, we are killing ourselves, let's evolve some systems to put this to work' or did the system come first and evolution randomly mutated a poison to go with it? What about fire...

At what point did mammals/insects/reptiles/etc break off? Did one creature evolve eyes, brain, heart, legs, arms, nervous system, blood system, etc and then did it make a split? Or was there a split and they all evolved their own systems? Wow... the probability of that one.

Ugh.


Ummmmm sure. Not really...

I'm actually not an expert on the big bang. I'm not even sure if science ascertained things "before" the big bang. This doesn't mean that our discoveries so far are meaningless, it just means we don't know yet.


Couldn't the same be said for God? If God doesn't have to be subject to the confines of time, why do all the quantum mechanics that lead to the universe (not the universe itself) have to be?


Correct, just like how cell theory doesn't care how the first cell came into existence to explain phenomena like cancer. Just like how germ theory doesn't have to know the orgin of germs to explain sickness and antibiotics. Just like how atomic theory doesn't need to know what happened before the first atom, because it isn't required to explain things like chemistry.


And birds who didn't have that feature didn't have as high as a reproduction rate. I would guess that early birds flew south only a few miles first, before getting more benefical mutations that caused them to fly south even further.


If that's the case, they wouldn't get selected then. Or maybe, if the ability to fly (or glide, which would be a likely transitional stage before they can actually fly) is more benefical than being sneaky, that trait could become selected. If it's not, it won't get selected.


I have no idea what you're saying here.


Most mutations are benign, giving no survival advantage. However, every once in a while, a benefical mutation will occur that will give a creature a survival advantage. And that creature will be selected over the ones who do not have that advantage, populating itself so that there will be more of it with that feature.


Who knows. More than likely, there were transitional phases that lead up to the complex system. Possibly, something like a poisonous spider probably held water in its "poison" gland, which then evolved into a gland that stored bile and the ability to inject it into its prey.


I thought those things only existed in legends.


Speciation, look it up.

Let's try something else for a moment. What evidence is there for creationism? What hypothesis and experiments have been done to come to the conclusion of creationism? Does it have a scientific model that can be used to predict future events?

That's cheating the system. That's basically saying God is invincible and omniscient (oo big word ;o) and invisible.

If this is true, why did he create humans?

God is the sole creator of all. God has always been and will always be. God created man in his image and I believe that we are here to live and make choices. I do wonder why god created humans...maybe bordem? This is the opinion of a christian and you should believe what you want.

You know what really pisses me off about "my" God is that basicly if it feels good its a sin and if we sin we go to hell and if we go to hell we burn for an eternity however if we spend our whole lives doing whats "right" we go to heaven and then what i mean am i going to be able to do all the sins i want to in heaven or am i going to spend an eternity being boreing im not sure but i bet in heaven god will still not let me have an orgy or screw the brains out of......... sorry this is getting out of hand but well you know what im saying.

ADDITION: and another thing why the hell doesnt he just let us know he is there and that he is watching i mean show us a hint of your power or make the rivers red with blood or split me a god damn lake i dont know about you guys but it feels to me too much like that retarted gam eof clue only instead its "IS HE THERE AND HOW?"

Lol... such as? Sex isn't a sin within marriage... weed is probably only a sin due to breaking a higher authorities law... um what else?


Sinning won't get you to hell, disbelieving in God will. Now, that doesn't mean you can go around sinning, thinking "well, god will forgive me anyways."


No... if you spend your whole lives doing "right", you won't get to heaven. Faith = salvation.


Lol... I have to wonder too... My friend Dan said heaven might be like a constant orgasim and that orgasims on earth is just a preview of heaven. It's kinda silly... but it's somewhat true, but only better.
Revelation talks about our own mansion and heaven having colors that earth doesn't have. I'm sure we won't be bored, but, we can only hope to play starcraft in heaven .
On another note, it's not like you could "sin" in hell either, you'd be in too much pain.


Because it isn't faith? If God showed himself to people, it wouldn't necessarily mean they would accept him anyways, they'll try and find some logical scientifical reason for the whole event, right Drunken?


Ask him when you see him.