Staredit Network

And your reasons are...?


Those are catholic churches. As i've said before, catholics are stupid and really dont do things right. The money goes to certain charities and other stuff; it's not just because they want to get rich. I dont discredit scientific advances; only few do. And just because a couple priests raped kids doesn't mean all churches do. Let me put it this way: On a basketball Team, every player trains really hard for practice. However only a couple just loaf around and do nothing but . Does that mean everyone on the basketball Team does nothing but just fool around?


YOu obviously can't read. He's saying that God is just a fantasy; he believes in FF more than God. I responded by saying it's stupid to be worshipping a Game more than God.


In the bible, it specifically said not to test God. Really if you do something like that, you dont have a true heart. But if you seriously need help, you can ask him and he will answer whether its now or much later, or might do something else just as good or better...


Miracles as in stuff like Jesus coming down from the clouds and Jesus raising people from the dead, turning water into whine, coming back alive after being nailed on the cross.


Old testament was written before Jesus Came to Earth; New testament was written after he died on the cross and came back.


As i said earlier, it's sad how he believes in FF more than God. It's not a fact, it's just my opinion whether u like it or not


What makes you so sure? Maybe they did; maybe they believed in something else. But from what you're saying, you're thinking that it's impossible for them to have been believing in my God.


Well, ppl go to hell if they chose not to believe in God. And if u totally haven't heard anything about God, then once you die you will just be judged and he will decide upon your actions.


You're right, people can just put lots of Bull in their writings, but if someone who is a messenger of God does that kind of stuff, he would be punished.


And what other alternative possibilities could he be?


You either did not read it right or you saw it from an unreliable source because i just looked it up and it said in Kings 4:26 that "Solomon had four thousand stalls for chariot hourses, and twelve thousand hourses."


If you had read the entire paragraph in matthews over this family tree, you would've seen that Eli was in it and Joseph was his great grandson. Luke isn't really saying he was his direct father but falls in the family tree.


In Judges 1:19, they were saying the men themselves, not God, were unable to drive the people away. In the end though, they did because God was with them.

ok 1st of all sorry if im repeating anything u guys said but holy crap u guys write alot!! But i feel god was a mythical (creature, human, figure, ghost, spirit THING!) that was made to scare people into believing that if you dont go along with your king/leader person then god will punish you. I feel now that this idea has now stuck and evolved into the idea of god that we have now. My personal stand is that there is no god no heaven no hell i done believe in any of that i see it just as a false hope for a after death paradise. I almost subscribe to a form of reincarnation. Not reincarnation with karma where this life effects next lives. How i feel is that you are alive now.... why cant this happen again? I mean you cant say im wrong, yet... you cant say im right can you?

I couldn't read everything, way too long, but I think I got the gist of it. Anyways, I will explain what all religious people tend to believe.

They believe they are all right. Christians tend to think everyone else is going to hell, Muslims believe everyone else is going to ...( I don't know what they call it), Jews believe everyonme else is going to hell.

Ok great, so all the other early religions and the current ones are all wrong, but god let's then be there as friendly competition. All fine and dandy.... Have you noticed how amny factions there are in religioins. Even in prtestant Chrisitanity, therte is Congregationalist, Lutheran, Calvinism, they all thnik they are right. They use religion to control people.

So, religion is used to control everything. You are baptised at birth (if Chrisitan), you are married by a priest guy, you are buried by a church (this is all if Chrisitian by the way), and you must follow these magical rules that came from this guy who said, OMG, god rox, follow me or you shall burn in hell. People go OMG, that sux , we don't want that to happen, we will follow this religion blindly.

I am too lazy to type a big thing about this. I have an interesting thread for you guys. 14 pages so far, and at the end, the religious people can't think of anything to say except for OMG, god rox.

ANyways, it is very long... but if you have the time to read everything, it gets really good.

http://ixeni.proboards22.com/index.cgi?boa...&num=1093119637

Just thought it would help this thread because alot of the ideas are already in this thread at XeN

If we ever go to an Alien Planet, I can almost gurantee you that you won't see christians or muslins, or jews there. You'll see they have their own religions. The only 2 religions they will have there, that we have here as well, is Atheism, and Deism. I doubt we have a religion called 3-5932jfw3fmwetrq3-tsasdnwaid0q324799nsdf- sswwwerwTACOspfgwhe80hwei5scvxcv.
But then agian, I can see stubburn people say, "God is just testing our faith." So let me get this straight, god made an ENTIRE planet, which has had TRILLIONS of animals live and die on it, just so he could "Test" your "Faith"? Ah, the arrogance.

I hate when people are really daft about it.

My house burned down, but god saved me.
...so...why didn't he use his magical poweres to have the fire never start. He created the wrold and people, he must be able to stop a fire.[/scsm]

That type of thing is crazy, people are still following this medieval cult that contradicts itself a lot. I had a few pages of different religious texts for English class, and everyone one of the contradicted itself. people are too blind to see the truth. Their parents rasie them to believe something, so they stay with it and teach it to their kids, it goes on and on.

He doesn't need reasons. He believes all those people who could see the future are fakes and got lucky, assuming they actually did exist instead of being in some book. *cough* Bible *cough*


Well then, you obviously can't think. You believing in god's reality is exactly the same as believing FF to be a real world, or I believe aliens to exist, or we're just a test subject in a grand experiment by a Samir Duran.

Think about it like this. Because FF is a game, you assume it can't be real. Well, what if you replace the word game with book. We have.
Because FF is a book, it can't be real.
Now let's replace FF with bible.
Because the Bible is a book, it can't be real
See, all I have changed are the variables that could be different, the change in views are still exactly the same. You cannot make fun of someone who believes in a game when you yourself are foolish enough to believe in a silly book.


Well, I desperatly need an A in my chemistry class. So, if I believe in him more than anyone else, he'll somehow give me knowledge in chemistry so I can get that A. Or he'll "randomly" put the smartest person sitting right next to me so I can cheat. Or maybe, he'll even threaten my chemistry teacher to go to hell unless he gives me an A. Wow, with powers like that, I should start believing in him!


It's a coincidence how none of these events have occured! All of them happened in a book. There is no evidence of any of this.

But I do have another question, why can't miracles be other things? I said before, molecules at a temperature very close to absolute zero will do things no one can explain. Defying the laws of gravity is one of them. So then, because this "miracle" has occured, it must be the doing of god, and our scientific research on this matter can not be right, no matter how much "proof" we gather. If we can't figure it out now, we might as well say god did it so we can work on something that is easy to explain, like why the sun rises!


This is why you're so arrogant! You think your views are always right. Hey! You should try and think about this subject (this one, the one I just quoted!) from an athiest view. Don't worry, I'll help you out:

Assume...
-The idea of God did not come to be in our imagination (yet)
-This thing called "language" is non-existant and we communicate with things like "harhasjkdflasj"
-God exists and will send people to hell for not believing
-God is loving and caring

Now, I ask you, what exactly happens to them?
Your answer:



So, basically, you're saying my actions that would be considered honorable and holy within my traditions and is unholy to that of god, will make me go to hell?

What if the life I have lived, I have helped more people than all the priests in the world combined, I have donated more charity money than anyone and I started with nothing. My life would have been the ideal life for a christian, but I was a non-believer. Would I go to hell then? I have accomplished everything but faith, would I still go to hell just because I did not believe? God is not caring! He only wants popularity. What a stupid guy.

That makes a lot of sense Cheez.

If I was to hypothetically say there was a god, would he say 'OMG, I banish you to hell for trying to think rationally for yourself and not following things because a lto fo others believed in it.' Also, worshipping is just another control method. If I were a god, would I decide, 'ok, everyone who wastes their life saying "OMG, you rock and ka and I will do whatever you tell me to", gets to go to heaven.' 'I decide that everyone else can be F*** for not going, "OMG, you rock" all the time.'

It's stupid and pointless.

Also, I noticed a lot of religious kids in my school, when I say stuff against religion, they make stuff up. 'OMG, you go to hell for not worshipping because god hates you now.' Of course there is a little thing in the Bible that says 'God hates your ass if you don't worship him all the time.'[/scsm] And religious people only seem to care about their religion. When i talk about why religion can't be true, the religious kids say to believe what I believe, and they will worship god, but when something happens in the news like a group thinks Halloween is Satanic, they don't say they can believe what they want, they say they are stupid pricks for being against Halloween.

If you are wrong, grow some balls, take it like a man, and admit that you're wrong. I highly doubt anyone on this thread will admit their wrong. But you see, I'm not asking you to admit you're wrong on this thread. I don't want to feel victorious because I won an arguement. I want there to at least be a chance that you'll admit to the truth. But by all means, go ahead. Keep trying to "Prove" us wrong. But remember, atheists were the 1st belief in god. Simply because, no one knew what god was. That's because, you're born an atheist.

Alpha, you're taking this the wrong way. I don't want MillenniumArmy, nor his religious friends to admit their wrong. We cannot prove they're wrong.

I do, however, want to point out the terrible flaws in their "perfect" logic and make them see the bigger picture instead of over just a book.

Yea, this thread isnt about whose right or wrong, it's just expressing our beliefs.

O and the Bible, u guys all seem to say its one book. It's really just a collection of many books written from as early as 1500 BC to like 95 AD. Books consist of:

Old Testament:
- Genesis
- Exodus
- Leviticus
- Numbers
- Deuteronomy
- Joshua
- Judges
- Ruth
- 1&2 Samuel
- 1&2 Kings
- 1&2 Chronicles
- Ezra
- Nehemiah
- Esther
- Job
- Psalms
- Proverbs
- Ecclesiastes
- Song of Songs
- Isaiah
- Jeremiah
- Lamentations
- Ezekiel, Daniel
- Hosea
- Joel
- Amos
- Obadiah
- Jonah
- Micah
- Nahum
- Hbakkuk
- Zephaniah
- Haggai
- Zechariah
- Malachi.
New Testament
- Matthew
- Mark
- Luke
- John
- Acts
- Romans
- 1&2 Corinthians
- Galations
- Ephesians
- Philippians
- Colossians
- 1&2 Thessalonians
- 1&2 Timothy
- Titus
- Philemon
- Hebrews
- James
- 1&2 Peter
- 1&2&3 John
- Jude
- Revelation

That's in total 66 books. 66 books is definately different than being one book. Ironic how everyone refers to the bible as "one book" where really it's 66x more.

Millenium Army, that has no arguements in it. More books is like saying more chances for errors.

I love how you just "suddenly" go off topic when you can't even try to express your beliefs against mine.

If you're confused on what you're trying to do, answer these questions:
Why you have so much faith in a book and character?

Do you love god more than you love your parents?

Would you rather have god die or your significant other die?

Is god your master and you, the slave?

Why is the bible so accurate?

Where is your reasoning?

Why do you doubt those with evidence?

Did i say that was an argument? No i didnt; i was just pointing that out. I am through with arguing now; its absolutely pointless and we'll just be repeating ourselves. You're right there's no way i can express my belief to you because people like you will never be able to understand nor do people like me will ever be able to understand you. It's just a waste of time and really does no good.

Hmm... I think I get what Army is saying. It wasn't just ONE book written by one author in about 2 months, it was around 55 different authors in a timespan of a thousand years.

Lets say for example, you are a religious person who thinks cheese (the almighty intangible cheese) is the ultimate creator of life and that cheese is it's mark of it existing. You've seen the almighty cheese's events, other people have accounts seeing the events also, and you've seen cheese interact with people (such as people eating cheese that appeared right in front of them). Now, of course, there are people who don't believe in the intagible cheese and people who do believe in the intangible cheese. Now, let's say you want to create a book writing about all the details of all the miraculous wonders of cheese. So you write your book, and the non-believers think you're just another cheese nutcase(of course). So time passes by and some other cheese wiz writes a book about the miraculous wonders of cheese and says that the intangible cheese himself inspired his writings. Of course, only he was the witness to this so we can't really debate about it. So we compare these 2 books that were written in separate times. Some parts overlap, but there are no inconsistancies between the two books, but they form some form of timeline. Soon more books of the great intangible cheese are made in different time periods, and these authors say that they were inspired by the great intangible cheese also. 1000's of years later, we look at all these books and line them up in chronological order, making one big book. Some are copies of the other books but from a different perspective and writing style, but in all these books there are no inconsistancies in parts which overlap, AND they also accurately describe the places and the time period and battles and stuff like that, which have been varified by other history accounts.

So you see, it is true that more books makes MORE chances for error, but it can also PROVE its validity. The large timeline can indicate that they were years apart (Yes, it is redundant). It is most likely that some of these authors that are close in the timeline never met. I also doubt that all of the authors were "scholars" and could gain access to historical scrolls so they could piece it together. Since all these authors could not have collaborated with each other to write their own separate work, you would think that they would have made disreprencies. I mean if you take 5 people in a room at separate times and you have them watch a part of a movie, with each one seeing the end of one person's movie shot and the beginning of another's, and told them to write a summary of their part they saw in detail, wouldn't you think that some would have some slight differences in the stories? These authors wrote about what they knew yet they don't contradict each other. You tried to show contradictions but thankfully millenium was wise enough to check for it himself to prove the err of the accusation.

Now to point out some differences between the intangible cheese story and God just to make sure you don't point and laugh and think "nope nothing like how it would've been":
1. In the cheese story, the first person to write a book wasn't cheese-inspired. On the other hand, in I Thesslalonians I believe, it states "All Scripture is God-Breathed. It is usefully for teaching, correcting, rebuking, and training in righteousness."
2. It is not spoken in the cheese story about the other books that were written by how we call the "false" cheese authors, or those who weren't inspired by the "great intangible cheese". How can we truly know if they're right or not? As you said it yourself cheese, Burden of Proof. If the book doesn't stand up against the facts, throw it away.

Yet.. I still don't get why you did not understand my Burden of Proof, you said I "shifted it". I think my little joke about "now bicker" threw you off to what I was really trying to state.
Of course, we can't. That is why I added the question that we CAN prove or disprove, for you said yourself that you can't disprove something that doesn't exist because it leaves no trace because it doesn't exist in the first place. So I stated: Since you can't find traces of something that doesn't exist, examine the evidence that DOES exist.

Well I'm gonna go play some Starcraft Broodwar. If you ask me, if we're gonna get to the answer or "core" of this question we should stop prancing around the impossible "prove or disprove God" perimeter and go into the life of the things we HAVE evidence for. Then for that "Only God has infinite wisdom to" stuff, I believe God may have had all animals prepared just in case of that possibility. Also, God didn't create everything. We could also have a debate on if God created diseases if this "God" exists if you want, but that sounds like more square dancing around the perimeter you know?

Edit: Realize the story of the "Great Intangible Cheese" has similarities to the process of the Bible. The believers of the cheese would be Jews and the non-believers would have been the Gentiles back when the Bible was made. It is true that the "Cheese" story is modern day, but connect it to the Bible, and you'll see similarities and differences, but they "generally" (due to the lack of detail in the Cheese story) will amount to how the Bible or "Great Cheese Book" was created.

Edit2: Aww but army.. I just took 45 minutes writing this and you don't show its an argument???? Darn... Oh well.. I still have shown the use of having many books. Hurrah!

I totally understand. I'm a complete cheese worshipper.

There's one question that's been bothering me for ages. If god is wise, why did he get at least 66 diff authors to write a book for him? I mean, he could've done it himself. I mean come on, it would take him only a few days, hell, maybe even a few minutes, to write out the entire thing. If you ask me, god was sleeping on the job that day. Or he just didn't give a .

BTW, one of the very few ways we can ever have world peace, is if god himself came down and laid down the law. Just come down as a huge flying monkey, and just scare (not kill) those who don't believe in him. I mean, if I saw a huge 2,000 ft monkey flying around, I'll be more than happy to become X religion. I'll be going to church everyday, helping out every person I meet. If I see a bum on the street, I'll give him a 20 dollar bill. If I see a store being robbed, I'll stop the robbery. If I see a woman that needs to cross the street, I do that whole jacket on the ground thing. God knows it's easy for him to have world peace. It's EASY as hell. Just come down every once in a while, and by while i mean every 10-50 years. Just scare lots of people for about a week. Leave some angels behind to make sure people don't get out of line, then go back to heaven and party like usual. (You know that's what he be doing. Or at least I would. Just cause you're super wise, don't mean you have to be a stoic.)

These.


You obviously can't read since you failed to see that you've trapped yourself in a case of special pleading. There is no evidence against FF, and Coop believes in FF. There is no evidence against God, and you said in post #44, "Are u saying that there is valid evidence against christianity yet i still choose to believe in it?" Implying that you believe in God because no one has ever shown him to be false.

Now, why is it not alright for Coop to believe in something that has never been shown to be false, but it's perfectly fine for you to do the same thing? Are you saying that there is valid evidence against FF, yet Coop still chooses to believe in it? I'm aware it's just your opinion, but you did trap yourself in a double standard.




If Hitler was our leader, would you not question what he does, but love him with blind faith? If I wrote a book about a a tooth fairy, will you not bother testing the assertion and simply believe it?

MA, it's me, God, possessing the body of an atheist. Don't bother questioning this assertion, just believe it. Now... I WANT YOU! FOR U.S. MARINES! Sign up at your local recruiting office. Do it NOW.


Same with my tooth fairy. Pray to her, and she will do something. Now, when "something" does happen, I'll claim that was the tooth fairy acting. I'll make the shoe fit the foot.


Assuming these miracles did happen.

If I pulled a rabbit out of a hat, and you couldn't determine the true cause for the miracle, would you resort to supernatural and paranormal explainations?


We had no evidence that they did, which is why I don't believe.


So there are exceptions. Why isn't something as meager as non-belief in dubious books not an exception?


Who knows, but they aren't limited to three. Maybe the entire universe just came into existence 5 minutes ago with even our memories of "earlier" events intact - but that one is unlikely to me. Maybe he is some paranormal/supernatural human, but that one is unlikely to me also.


I'm using KJV (King James Version), which is the most prevalent one, from what I gather.


Those lines tell us otherwise, maybe they wern't such meticulous workers, or you're shoehorning the Bible to say things that it doesn't.


No, it explicitly says God, but let's not get further into an endless debate about bible apologetics. I want to stick to logical reasons to believe in God, which I don't see any.

ADDITION:

So the bible is true, because it says so in the bible. With sound reasonings like this, how can there be any skeptics at all?

Also, in Cheeze's scrapbook, on page 13, where he says he met a fire-breathing dragon that granted him three wishes, proof that this actually happened is that it says so in his book..


Do you know how many holy books say other holy books are false and their religion is the one true one?


And this is why I don't believe in the Bible.


Joke? You turned belligerent on me. I've already explemplifed how you shifted the burden of proof on post #40. The burden of proof always belongs to the one making the affirmative claim, not the one making the negative claim.


So this whole time, you wanted a one word yes/no answer? (And to try another thread on it, which would just be a simple yes/no response).


How can it leave behind evidence indicating it does exist, when it doesn't exist?

Damned cynical militant atheists.

Their god is science, so they do have their own deity.

I'm agnostic with a bias towards science and logic rather than faith in the supernatural.

I can never rule out some sort of god (and in saying god I mean 'a concept beyond human understanding') until the origins of the Universe are better explained by science.

I need some minerals...


You cannot prove or disprove the existence of something that never existed, you can only make logical assumptions as to weather or not it existed. The whole concept of god completely defies logic.


No one ever said that Jesus was god.


Or he wasn't any of those. Someone could have written a book about him and all of the "great things" he supposedly did without his knowledge. Really, if you think about it, there are an infinite number of ways it could have happened.

Maybe some.

I believe in evolution and natural selection, but I'm not a Darwinist.

I wonder if you were insinuating to anybody in particular.

Atleast science is based on fact and not some book made by ancient peoples trying to make people submit to their rules and beliefs.

It was a general statement.

There's a three?!

Sorry, I havent read any of this recent posts... just up to that... i just thought i should add that...

And: I DO beleive there's a God. What's the harm in believing?

Kow, I would strongly recommend reading these last 2 pages or so.

As for your question, there is nothing wrong in believing. The better question is why do you believe? What are your reasons to?

The problem with that is there is none. If god does exist, he demands popularity through your faith! He doesn't care about showing up in this world and helping people.

Gods, like leprechauns, goblins, trolls, and fairies, are neither capable of confirmation or falsification, so why bother?

You have everything to gain, and nothing to lose (Except maybe a few hours out of your week to go to church)

Care to elaborate? I'm not sure I follow...