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I wonder how it feels to lie to yourself so often? Ignorance is bliss...
Can there be any greater evidence than bones that they existed? What more could you possibly want? A live dinosaur to go trampling down the street?

Sadly, I agree with you Scroll. I mean, not even atheists ask for Jesus walking through the streets because he is "alive" for his existance and ressurection to be proven.

I think Neiji (who believes solely on faith) is trying to make an argument based upon that facts don't talk, but the scientists who interpret the facts do. Most people would say "use common sense", but considering our common sense brought us to the conclusion of God and atheists say our common sense is wrong, I think Neiji is retorting by stating something like "then prove YOUR common sense if you think ours is illogical"


Ok, this is hopefully the last time I have to bug you with the definitions of faith. I need my own clarification, is this what you're saying:
If what I just said you agree with, I can finally stop being such a pain by reitterating what I have been saying over and over again.

Ok, before I get started upon this, you do realize to prove that I have to prove these things that I stated up top: 1) General Relativity, truths exist, all truths are absolute truths, absolute morality exists, reliability of the Bible, pitiful attempts at trying to explain away the "resurrection", Principle of Uniformity, Law of Noncontradiction and other things You do realize you're asking much more than a simple answer yes?

I didn't like Case for Christ or Case for Faith that much, though they did have interesting points about explaining God's omnipotence. Get the book "I Don't have enough Faith to be an Atheist." It brings out an interesting perspective of the supposed "Faith" vs. "Logic" battle.

And to have faith in something that goes against our best knowledge of the origin of life and the universe, you'd better damn well know something all the rest of us don't.

I'm reluctant to agree with anything.

I agree with you 100% scroll; I might as well be saying that myself.


That's not an atheist statement, thats an agnostic statement. If this was supposed to be in context with the quote (such as, "I'm reluctant to agree with anything that has to do with religion") above then ignore with what I am about to say. If you really mean anything, then are you an orenary agnostic (believes that you can't know enough) or the common agnostic (believes that he doesn't know enough).

I didn't mean I'm reluctant to agree with anything, just that faith/chair thing. I was beginning to confuse myself at that point with all the analogies, so I just didn't want to agree with something I didn't fully understand.

How about this: God's on a different dimension where anything is possible in his power. There? Science AND religion...

Um... Does SATAN exist? I mean he's much cooler than any fcking god.

That's like rooting for Sauron in LOTR instead of the good guys

Satan is supposedly Lucifer, an angel of high rank who rebelled against God.

Satanism was invented by the Church though, in an attempt to demonise pagan religions.

Aye, perfect combo. However, some people can only accept mundane things.


Yes he does. He's much more retarded than any fcking god.


Yea, satan is just another name for Lucifer, the leader of all angels. Because he was so "handsome" and "high ranked," he was the first one to rebel against God. He brings with him like a 3rd of the angels and are cast down to earth to create their own little autonomous society.

I dunno if this is true or not, but: isn't satanism like witchcraft? Back in the old days like the Salem Witch trials, some people were accuse of being associated with the Devil because of their practices of witchcraft. Those days were just totally... wrong. Just like the McCarthy Era.

What are the rankings for life in the whole universe?

Is it:

God
Angels
Humans
Animals

Or something else?

The second post puts it perfectly. IT'S THE SECOND POST. FireKame gives it the way it is, no questions asked.

Millennium... its harder to prove Satan without putting God in the picture than proving God. Stating that Satan exists doesn't mean it's neccessarily true. Just because evolutionists state that they're right doesn't mean they're true either.

In short, we shouldn't say that it's given that Satan exists unless we have the given that God exists.

Oi. Salem Witch Trials needs to have the witch cut out. All that happened was a few girls probably just faking fits to get rid of town members that people probably didn't like anyways. There were no witches at Salem, it was all politics. What person in their right mind completely believes that witches are causing the convulsive movements of some little girl? Anyways, everyone just dodged my question or went off topic entirely. Here's my point: You're saying Jesus is God. You're saying that the cross is simply a reminder. Alright. 1. Now let's say I make a religion, and I state that my brother is one with God, and is the true Messiah, the son of God, and I worship him. Is that breaking a Commandment? 2. Eventually, the religion gains too much influence, and my brother is shot. I take his shirt with the hole in it, and make it the symbol of my religion. All figures of him have the shirt with the bullet hole in it. Is the shirt a graven image? Isn't it just reminding us of his sacrifice? I'm not making a real argument against Christianity, I just think it's a bit hypocritical.

Yeah, the 'convulsions' were caused by the presence of LSD in rotten wheat husks, not by 'witches.'

In response to an earlier comment about Satan... where is it mentioned that he is evil? I thought that 'Satan' was an angelic office. The task of whichever angel held the office (Lucifer) was to test peoples' faith by tempting them.

The Church later made up all the stuff about Satan being some evil devil with horns, a tail and a trident.

You can't truly prove anything to be true... what's your point?
How offensive! I have friends who worship Satan! I'd thank you to try not to be so inconsiderate of other peoples beliefs.

Other than going against God, what's the point of you worshiping Satan.

Yes, the "horns, tail, and trident" part was made up somewhere in history to characterize Satan as evil. But, Satan was still thrown down from heaven. The reason for this is something we see so often in B-rated horror flicks. A person (or creator) makes this robot, monster, or in this case, angels. Now simple logic comes into play. The creation, having its own thoughts and ideas, thinks "Why does my creator be the big shot? Why do I have to obey him? I will not obey him! I am my own ruler!" Of course in B-rated movies you don't see such deep thinking (in the movie or the plot), but it is quite a good analogy of God and the angels.

Lucifer was one of God's marvelously created angels. Lucifer in Hebrew meant "morning star". One day (or point, since the natural force of time didn't exist before the creation of the universe), Lucifer was beside himself thinking these same questions. Somewhere in the Old Testament (Ezekiel? Isaiah??? Somewhere in major and minor prophet sections) tells the tale to enough detail to understand what happened. In short Lucifer said, "I AM *bla bla bla bla bla*. I AM *blablblablala*" He's basically saying he's going to become the head honcho and become more powerful than God. Well, Lucifer gets a few followers and they revolt against God. Ah! Pure Democracy at its finest! Michael the archangel and his angels, with God, fight against Lucifer and his angels. Oddly enough, they actually made God sweat (considering that angels are nearly as powerful as God himself, and there is power in numbers.) But, in the end, God cast Lucifer out of "heaven". Then, God creates the world during this point of non-existant time, and creates mankind in his own image. And of course, Lucifer gets his revenge by making mankind turn against God and have a conscience about good and bad.

One thing I found interesting in an Evolutionist book was where they were talking about the "vestigal organs" that came from earlier ancestors but the organs didn't hinder their chances for survival. The main one they had shown was a type of lizard known as "slinkies", because they had feet, but could not use them. It was quite interesting because God cursed the animal Lucifer had put himself in to be forced to "slither" the earth. Before, the so-called "snake" that Lucifer was in moved by walking on feet?

Maybe it is a misconception was Lucifer did not take the body of a snake, but rather the slinkies? Just a thought.

In any case, I hope that clears up some things about Lucifer.

ADDITION:

To my knowledge, most "satanists", people whos life is based upon doing immoral things and base themselves upon how good they lie, don't even believe that Satan exist!!! The only true "satanists" would be former Christians who are rebelling against God.

So, the amount people who worship Satan on purpose (or those who know of God and Satan) is very few.

The people who are non-Christians and "worship" Satan are probably one of these:
1) People who pretend to do this just to piss Christians off. (I mean, you can't be a "satanist" in the religous term if you don't even believe in any sort of God!)
2) Mentally disturbed people who don't have a clue what they're doing (i.e. Insane, Drunk)
3) People who are being sarcastic, not serious (i.e. "All hail Satan! ")
4) People who are so bored they "worship" random things just to pass the time.
5) People who study Witchcraft. (They call upon the forces of "darkness" don't they?) Hmm.. Witchcraft makes me think of Starcraft except the word "Star" is cooler than the word "Wtich".

Well, anyways, if non-Christian people actually "believe" in Satan(Lucifer) why don't they believe in God. And if they believe in God than why aren't they a Jew, Muslim, or a Christian? Since we are made in God's image, I don't think Lucifer wants any remains of God, so serving Satan is like suicide except that you still have time to choose.

Well... HELL is warm and cozy
Heaven has no protection against ultra-violet rays n stuff, so you crisp.

I advise you to take a look at this.

It appears that Lucifer wasn't an angel at all, nor was he Satan. 'He' is just the outcome of a mistranslation of the original Hebrew Bible (I became suspicious when you said 'Lucifer' was Hebrew, when it doesn't sound like a Hebrew name at all) and subsequent misinterpretations by Christians.

Other than going against Satan, what's the point of you worshiping God.

When you look at it like this, your question seems pretty stupid.

Yay! We got one person without a comeback!


Because God is good, but Satan is bad. If you like good over bad, I suggest you worship satan.

How do you know god is good? From what I've seen, god has only done many harmful things. Mass destruction, creation of deadly plants and animals, threatens, and wants you to worship him.

Uh...yeah right.

God created you, loves you, forgives you, watches out for you, gave you free will, gave you a chance for eternal happiness...

And yet you turn away from him. You condemn him as being an evil God. He has every right to kill you. Maybe that's why God doesn't talk to anybody or show himself. Maybe he has given up on all mankind and moved onto new versions of humans.

That's pretty funny, because this Bible I have when I went to the passage states this:

Isaiah was one with metaphors, wasn't he? I mean, Isaiah 53 is more than enough proof for that... 'Tis true, dear Will, that Isaiah did mean the king of Babylon. But yet, it is quite odd that it would seem to fit so perfectly into the role of Satan.

On another note, I find it quite striking that there is little spoken about the world in which we do not see. Look at Daniel 10:9-14;10:20- 11:1. Piece together what the angel is saying, and you will find something that will change your perspective upon things.