Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-13 at 18:40:39
You barely addressed what I said.
How dense can you be? You don't have to have direct experience in something to know how hard it is. Tell me where in life you learned this?
No you couldn't. If you were to try to say that, you would have to explain what the hell you mean, because it isn't like making melee maps is placing tiles one by one.
Again, you are showing your stupidity. I guess I have no way of knowing whether laying bricks for a brick path requires as much menal skill as does designing laser-guided weaponry, because I have done neither.
Wow.
QUOTE
Simply put, you can't say that because you haven't made a UMS map. Also you think that UMS has no factors involved?
How dense can you be? You don't have to have direct experience in something to know how hard it is. Tell me where in life you learned this?
QUOTE
UMS triggering isn't mindnumbing all the time. Hell I can say Melee terraining is mindnumbing as well.
No you couldn't. If you were to try to say that, you would have to explain what the hell you mean, because it isn't like making melee maps is placing tiles one by one.
QUOTE
Too bad that doesn't prove a damn thing unless you actually experience and try it for yourself.
Again, you are showing your stupidity. I guess I have no way of knowing whether laying bricks for a brick path requires as much menal skill as does designing laser-guided weaponry, because I have done neither.
Wow.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-13 at 18:44:40
QUOTE
No you couldn't. If you were to try to say that, you would have to explain what the hell you mean, because it isn't like making melee maps is placing tiles one by one.
[sarcasm]Yes, we who make UMS maps lay tiles one by one.[/sarcasm]
Come to think of it, now I sort of think UMS can be harder than Melee. Just think about this. UMS can be exactly like Melee with terrain and using all the SC units, but you can trigger just a tiny difference and poof, its a UMS map, very similar to Melee, with beautiful terrain just like it, all the strategy that Melee has, but just has a little "UMS" extra something.
QUOTE
Again, you are showing your stupidity. I guess I have no way of knowing whether laying bricks for a brick path requires as much menal skill as does designing laser-guided weaponry, because I have done neither.
Again you relate two absurdly different things. At least you can say Melee and UMS are both about the same game. Though in each one you apply different things.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-13 at 18:51:12
QUOTE(devilesk @ May 13 2005, 05:44 PM)
Yes, we who make UMS maps lay tiles one by one.
Again you relate two absurdly different things. At least you can say Melee and UMS are both about the same game. Though in each one you apply different things.
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Again you relate two absurdly different things. At least you can say Melee and UMS are both about the same game. Though in each one you apply different things.
[right][snapback]207628[/snapback][/right]
First, you didn't answer the question as to why melee was mind numbing, and you bascally ignored my entire post. Thanks, bastard.
And you still think that because I have no experience in UMS, that I won't be able to judge it. Tell me what the
about UMS makes it so god damn intellectual that it becomes the only activity in existance that you can't judge without doing it? What the hell ?I'll be going for the next few hours, try to think before you post, mkay?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-13 at 18:54:22
Thanks for being the first one to be a retard and to make rude comments. At least it was civilized for a time.
Also, anything can be mindnumbing once you do it over and over again. Don't gimme that bs that melee terrain can be totally unique every single time. Hell you might as well say that for UMS. There certainly are "skills" you can master that can be repeated in every melee map that would make it mindnumbing.
Hey man gj ignoring the rest of my post too! Thanks,
Note that I wanted to censor it and not be an idiot like you.
I also did think before I posted, but it took me less than a minute or two. Take that and shove it.
Now how about you take the time to address the points I made, mkay?
BTW if this gets progressively worse, than I'm sure this topic will be locked. So lets get back to making some valid points about whether Melee > UMS, and I can reply as to how it is not.
Also, I as well will be gone in for the next few hours, I would not only liked to see a well thought out post, but one that doesn't make personal attacks that make you sound like an idiot. Also I hope it is valid.
retard and to make rude comments. At least it was civilized for a time.Also, anything can be mindnumbing once you do it over and over again. Don't gimme that bs that melee terrain can be totally unique every single time. Hell you might as well say that for UMS. There certainly are "skills" you can master that can be repeated in every melee map that would make it mindnumbing.
QUOTE
First, you didn't answer the question as to why melee was mind numbing, and you bascally ignored my entire post. Thanks, bastard.
Hey man gj ignoring the rest of my post too! Thanks,
Note that I wanted to censor it and not be an idiot like you.
I also did think before I posted, but it took me less than a minute or two. Take that and shove it.
Now how about you take the time to address the points I made, mkay?
BTW if this gets progressively worse, than I'm sure this topic will be locked. So lets get back to making some valid points about whether Melee > UMS, and I can reply as to how it is not.
Also, I as well will be gone in for the next few hours, I would not only liked to see a well thought out post, but one that doesn't make personal attacks that make you sound like an idiot. Also I hope it is valid.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-13 at 19:12:49
I didn't ignore the rest of your post. You replied with a question that had nothing to do with what I had asked.
No, and no. I don't know what else to say. The only way that you can be considered correct is if you are making a map perfectly symmetrical.
When making a ums map, all you have to worry about is whether the newbs on this forum will like it. When making a melee map, you have to worry about whether good players will be able to have a fair game on your map, and you have to put into account all of the matchups and make sure that all of them are balanced. The fact that many pro maps are eventually deemed imbalanced is testiment to how hard it is.
ADDITION:
I should be going in aout 10 minutes.
QUOTE
Don't gimme that bs that melee terrain can be totally unique every single time. Hell you might as well say that for UMS. There certainly are "skills" you can master that can be repeated in every melee map that would make it mindnumbing.
No, and no. I don't know what else to say. The only way that you can be considered correct is if you are making a map perfectly symmetrical.
When making a ums map, all you have to worry about is whether the newbs on this forum will like it. When making a melee map, you have to worry about whether good players will be able to have a fair game on your map, and you have to put into account all of the matchups and make sure that all of them are balanced. The fact that many pro maps are eventually deemed imbalanced is testiment to how hard it is.
ADDITION:
I should be going in aout 10 minutes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Roman-Centurion on 2005-05-13 at 19:53:27
cmon yall stop biatching around, this is supposed to be constructive, anyway
ihatett, yo have a valid point about people making ignorant opinions on melee map making,
in my opinion it is about a mindstate of tactical advantage and creativity as well
like as in if there is a cliff by a close path would you choose to take control of it with a seige tank to eliminate a possible threat coming your way or should you choose to expand to the mineral patch that is close to your enemy?
anyway since it can't be helped theres a 0.0000000001% chance of getting the attention of melee map making on this site since it is majorly UMS map makers
but im with you all the way bro.
ihatett, yo have a valid point about people making ignorant opinions on melee map making,
in my opinion it is about a mindstate of tactical advantage and creativity as well
like as in if there is a cliff by a close path would you choose to take control of it with a seige tank to eliminate a possible threat coming your way or should you choose to expand to the mineral patch that is close to your enemy?
anyway since it can't be helped theres a 0.0000000001% chance of getting the attention of melee map making on this site since it is majorly UMS map makers
but im with you all the way bro.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-13 at 23:18:29
Roman, this was about melee mapmaking, not strategies and choices. Even so, ihatett is also making ignorant posts about UMS mapmaking, it's not just other people making ignorant posts about melee mapmaking.
ihatett, I loved that last post you made.
Rofl, even if that we true the same exact crap can be said for melee mapmaking.
How about the fact that many UMS maps are crap shows how hard it would be to create a good map? As I've said before, why not try your hand at actually created an actual UMS map.
And it's funny how you think you can be 100% original with every melee map.
It's so obvious that you have never made a UMS map or have any experience with one with all the generalizations and stereotypes you make about them.
Also why don't you take a little time to think about this
Because really a UMS contains EVERYTHING a melee maps has, but you can do even more. The only reason it appears that melee maps are more sophisticated are because theres a bunch of noob mapmakers out there. Hell, if melee was as popular as UMS around HERE, then I'm sure you would see more crap comming out of your side. But look at it this way, you say UMS triggering is watered down programming? Well melee is just watered down UMS Making without the triggers and extra things you can do in a UMS map. You could take one of those awesome pro melee maps, add a few triggers and there you go, its a UMS map, with the terrain of the best melee maps.
At first I was willing to say each one was equal, but after seeing all your arguments and comments, I'm starting to think otherwise.
In addition
I don't see how the hell you can say that melee is unique every time, but you can't apply the same thing to UMS. That is total bs and solidifies the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.
ihatett, I loved that last post you made.
QUOTE
When making a ums map, all you have to worry about is whether the newbs on this forum will like it
Rofl, even if that we true the same exact crap can be said for melee mapmaking.
QUOTE
The fact that many pro maps are eventually deemed imbalanced is testiment to how hard it is.
How about the fact that many UMS maps are crap shows how hard it would be to create a good map? As I've said before, why not try your hand at actually created an actual UMS map.
And it's funny how you think you can be 100% original with every melee map.
It's so obvious that you have never made a UMS map or have any experience with one with all the generalizations and stereotypes you make about them.
Also why don't you take a little time to think about this
QUOTE
Just think about this. UMS can be exactly like Melee with terrain and using all the SC units, but you can trigger just a tiny difference and poof, its a UMS map, very similar to Melee, with beautiful terrain just like it, all the strategy that Melee has, but just has a little "UMS" extra something.
Because really a UMS contains EVERYTHING a melee maps has, but you can do even more. The only reason it appears that melee maps are more sophisticated are because theres a bunch of noob mapmakers out there. Hell, if melee was as popular as UMS around HERE, then I'm sure you would see more crap comming out of your side. But look at it this way, you say UMS triggering is watered down programming? Well melee is just watered down UMS Making without the triggers and extra things you can do in a UMS map. You could take one of those awesome pro melee maps, add a few triggers and there you go, its a UMS map, with the terrain of the best melee maps.
At first I was willing to say each one was equal, but after seeing all your arguments and comments, I'm starting to think otherwise.
In addition
QUOTE
No, and no.
I don't see how the hell you can say that melee is unique every time, but you can't apply the same thing to UMS. That is total bs and solidifies the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2005-05-13 at 23:55:48
Ihatett, I regret to inform you of this, but this community was founded on UMS mapmaking. Most of this community is cenetered on UMS mapping. Most of the people here go on to StarCraft to play UMS maps. Let me give you a real life example: You're walking into a bar and saying "smoking and drinking is bad for you". They're still going to drink and smoke. I'm not badmouthing melee at all, and I do enjoy a good melee map and game, but I am saying that UMS mapping is why most of us are here. Which map is harder to make? There really is no general rule. It depends on the skill of the mapper and how much time they put into making the map good.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 00:08:37
Well actually, I have made some melee maps, so I know that they are hard to make. I'm not saying they are good at all, but I do know at least how to terrain and place minerals, ramps, and other things. So that is why I am able to actually say these things. And the only reason at first I was sympathizing with the argument that Melee can be harder than UMS and it actually stands a chance was because I actually tried making a melee map. So don't say I'm getting my opinions from no experience. Unlike ihatett.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 00:11:14
How so? How can it you debate about whether I have experience or not making a melee map and have at leasted tried it? Do you want me to show you a damn melee map I've made? What is so opinionated in my post that a debate can spawn from.
Unless you somehow know more about myself than I do, then I don't see how you would know anything more about what I said than I do.
Unless you somehow know more about myself than I do, then I don't see how you would know anything more about what I said than I do.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 00:18:56
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that to place a mineral in the regular editor it just had to be green and actually place the unit after you click. I didn't know that you could do it otherwise. Sorry for my ignorance on how to place a unit/doodad.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 00:24:48
Alright lets make a topic that describes the correct way to place a unit on a map. See the way I always did it was to first select the mineral patch from the list on the right. Then I would just click on the map to place it when it was green!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 01:31:01
Thanks psycho, thank god you didn't leave 
Because when you reply embedded quotes seem to disappear, I'll just make a list of points:
1. My point about UMS maps only having to please the newbs here was right. A melee map won't please anyone unless it's balanced, which as I described takes a good deal of thought. In other words, your map won't get anywhere except stuck on page 3 of Map Showcase & in Production unless it is an excellent map, which is much harder than making a little jack-around mini game which can spread across battle.net. Melee players have higher tastes, and won't just join some random map.
--
2.
I found this hilarious. Let's put out thinking caps on, shall we? I hope you read this whole paragraph.
Most melee maps when proffesionally released show credits or something along those lines else when used in UMS. That isn't what we are talking about here.Ee were not talking about balanced melee maps with a few triggers thrown in vs balanced melee maps without triggers. We were talking about balanced melee maps vs. what is meant by "UMS maps" 100% of the time. The arguement isn't about whether it's harder to making a balanced melee map or making that same map with triggers showing credits. You, I, and everyone who has been reading knows that.
When UMS maps were mentioned, we were talking about what is meant by "UMS map" literally 100% if the time: minigames, RPGs, bounds, etc. I hope that by this change-of-your-arguement you are agreeing that making a melee map is harder than the aforementioned? If you UMSers switched and started making melee maps, that would be great. But no one in your forums says "I'm going to make a balanced melee map and add triggers showing that I made it", they say "What should be in my new bound?".
--
3. My point about proffesional maps being imbalanced also went over your head. If people who are paid to make maps for televised leagues end up releasing imbalanced maps, then that should show right there that it's harder. Any newb with a mouse can make a well-accepted ums map.
Because when you reply embedded quotes seem to disappear, I'll just make a list of points:
1. My point about UMS maps only having to please the newbs here was right. A melee map won't please anyone unless it's balanced, which as I described takes a good deal of thought. In other words, your map won't get anywhere except stuck on page 3 of Map Showcase & in Production unless it is an excellent map, which is much harder than making a little jack-around mini game which can spread across battle.net. Melee players have higher tastes, and won't just join some random map.
--
2.
QUOTE
Because really a UMS contains EVERYTHING a melee maps has, but you can do even more. The only reason it appears that melee maps are more sophisticated are because theres a bunch of noob mapmakers out there. Hell, if melee was as popular as UMS around HERE, then I'm sure you would see more crap comming out of your side. But look at it this way, you say UMS triggering is watered down programming? Well melee is just watered down UMS Making without the triggers and extra things you can do in a UMS map. You could take one of those awesome pro melee maps, add a few triggers and there you go, its a UMS map, with the terrain of the best melee maps.
I found this hilarious. Let's put out thinking caps on, shall we? I hope you read this whole paragraph.
Most melee maps when proffesionally released show credits or something along those lines else when used in UMS. That isn't what we are talking about here.Ee were not talking about balanced melee maps with a few triggers thrown in vs balanced melee maps without triggers. We were talking about balanced melee maps vs. what is meant by "UMS maps" 100% of the time. The arguement isn't about whether it's harder to making a balanced melee map or making that same map with triggers showing credits. You, I, and everyone who has been reading knows that.
When UMS maps were mentioned, we were talking about what is meant by "UMS map" literally 100% if the time: minigames, RPGs, bounds, etc. I hope that by this change-of-your-arguement you are agreeing that making a melee map is harder than the aforementioned? If you UMSers switched and started making melee maps, that would be great. But no one in your forums says "I'm going to make a balanced melee map and add triggers showing that I made it", they say "What should be in my new bound?".
--
3. My point about proffesional maps being imbalanced also went over your head. If people who are paid to make maps for televised leagues end up releasing imbalanced maps, then that should show right there that it's harder. Any newb with a mouse can make a well-accepted ums map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-05-14 at 01:56:28
Wow, so much hostility. What's your problem, dude? Is the rest of the world too dense to understand your great ideas?
Saying that I'm ignorant of melee makes no difference in whether or not it's enjoyable for me. It's just opinion and personal preference. I've played plenty of melee, and I stopped when I had enough. But now you're calling me ignorant without knowing anything about me? Talk about arrogant. I could call you ignorant of UMS map-making, but I have no way of knowing that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't know anything about it. Here's an example of me mimicing your behavior so far: Do you like guacamole? If not, you're too stupid and ignorant of its greatness and don't even deserve to talk about guacamole with those of us who do. See the lack of social skills displayed by my satirical imitation of you? Get a life, who cares who makes what kind of map. As long as we enjoy what we do, it doesn't matter.
Oh, for the record, I find programming to be boring, as well. I just like the creativity afforded to me by the map-making system, and I like finding ways to work within its limitations to develop my desired outcomes. Apparently, you look down on people who just want to play a game for a while instead of devoting their whole lives to the "new chess". Yeah, right. You take this stuff way too seriously.
Saying that I'm ignorant of melee makes no difference in whether or not it's enjoyable for me. It's just opinion and personal preference. I've played plenty of melee, and I stopped when I had enough. But now you're calling me ignorant without knowing anything about me? Talk about arrogant. I could call you ignorant of UMS map-making, but I have no way of knowing that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't know anything about it. Here's an example of me mimicing your behavior so far: Do you like guacamole? If not, you're too stupid and ignorant of its greatness and don't even deserve to talk about guacamole with those of us who do. See the lack of social skills displayed by my satirical imitation of you? Get a life, who cares who makes what kind of map. As long as we enjoy what we do, it doesn't matter.
Oh, for the record, I find programming to be boring, as well. I just like the creativity afforded to me by the map-making system, and I like finding ways to work within its limitations to develop my desired outcomes. Apparently, you look down on people who just want to play a game for a while instead of devoting their whole lives to the "new chess". Yeah, right. You take this stuff way too seriously.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 02:08:46
QUOTE(Nozomu @ May 14 2005, 12:56 AM)
Wow, so much hostility. What's your problem, dude? Is the rest of the world too dense to understand your great ideas?
Saying that I'm ignorant of melee makes no difference in whether or not it's enjoyable for me. It's just opinion and personal preference. I've played plenty of melee, and I stopped when I had enough. But now you're calling me ignorant without knowing anything about me? Talk about arrogant. I could call you ignorant of UMS map-making, but I have no way of knowing that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't know anything about it. Here's an example of me mimicing your behavior so far: Do you like guacamole? If not, you're too stupid and ignorant of its greatness and don't even deserve to talk about guacamole with those of us who do. See the lack of social skills displayed by my satirical imitation of you? Get a life, who cares who makes what kind of map. As long as we enjoy what we do, it doesn't matter.
Oh, for the record, I find programming to be boring, as well. I just like the creativity afforded to me by the map-making system, and I like finding ways to work within its limitations to develop my desired outcomes. Apparently, you look down on people who just want to play a game for a while instead of devoting their whole lives to the "new chess". Yeah, right. You take this stuff way too seriously.
[right][snapback]207972[/snapback][/right]
Saying that I'm ignorant of melee makes no difference in whether or not it's enjoyable for me. It's just opinion and personal preference. I've played plenty of melee, and I stopped when I had enough. But now you're calling me ignorant without knowing anything about me? Talk about arrogant. I could call you ignorant of UMS map-making, but I have no way of knowing that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't know anything about it. Here's an example of me mimicing your behavior so far: Do you like guacamole? If not, you're too stupid and ignorant of its greatness and don't even deserve to talk about guacamole with those of us who do. See the lack of social skills displayed by my satirical imitation of you? Get a life, who cares who makes what kind of map. As long as we enjoy what we do, it doesn't matter.
Oh, for the record, I find programming to be boring, as well. I just like the creativity afforded to me by the map-making system, and I like finding ways to work within its limitations to develop my desired outcomes. Apparently, you look down on people who just want to play a game for a while instead of devoting their whole lives to the "new chess". Yeah, right. You take this stuff way too seriously.
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Again, you are simply ignorant. I'll give the usal go step by step treatment, so don't worry.
QUOTE(Nozomu @ May 14 2005, 12:56 AM)
Wow, so much hostility. What's your problem, dude? Is the rest of the world too dense to understand your great ideas?
Nope, the small UMS community is though.
QUOTE
Saying that I'm ignorant of melee makes no difference in whether or not it's enjoyable for me. It's just opinion and personal preference. I've played plenty of melee, and I stopped when I had enough. But now you're calling me ignorant without knowing anything about me? Talk about arrogant. I could call you ignorant of UMS map-making, but I have no way of knowing that. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't know anything about it.
I never said anything untrue about UMS map making. Quote it if I did.
QUOTE
Here's an example of me mimicing your behavior so far: Do you like guacamole? If not, you're too stupid and ignorant of its greatness and don't even deserve to talk about guacamole with those of us who do.
I wasn't replying to you saying that you didn't like melee. Here is what I was replying to:
QUOTE
I mean, I personally find melee games to be incredibly boring and repetitive.
You are allowed to dislike melee games, but you can't say the above. You might not find it fun, but it is certainly not repetitive. Well, maybe your $$$FASTEST POSSIBLE MAP NR25$$$ games get repetive, but not melee games between various skilled and clever players.
QUOTE
See the lack of social skills displayed by my satirical imitation of you? Get a life, who cares who makes what kind of map. As long as we enjoy what we do, it doesn't matter.
Funny that you say that in a thread debating that very topic.
QUOTE
Oh, for the record, I find programming to be boring, as well. I just like the creativity afforded to me by the map-making system, and I like finding ways to work within its limitations to develop my desired outcomes. Apparently, you look down on people who just want to play a game for a while instead of devoting their whole lives to the "new chess". Yeah, right. You take this stuff way too seriously.
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What were you programming? Did you have no input on that? Maybe if you were programming small games you would have had more fun? Also, you don't seem to understand how much starcraft is played world-wide. I'd say it's more popular than counter-strike, but I have no numbers to back that up, except for the numerous polls that Starcraft owns in. Here is the only one I can find, but I have yet to see a major poll which starcraft has not won. WCG poll.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-05-14 at 02:35:22
Are you like a missionary sent by WGTour or something? Because it seems like you're being slightly fanatical and overly zealous about this whole thing.
I can say whatever I want based on my experience. And yes, I've played plenty of "pro maps" with the idiots on bnet, not just that $$$FASTEST$$$ crap. It makes no difference. I am certainly allowed to voice my opinion that I find melee to be boring. I played a 1v1 BGH tonight and it was boring. But it wouldn't matter even if I was ignorant. That would just mean that StarCraft wasn't interesting enough in the first place to get me into melee gaming. Which is also a strike against your argument, wouldn't you say? That's a Catch 22, if I recall correctly. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" and all that jazz.
I made games and crap in QBasic and Visual Basic when I was in grade school. It was enough for me. I have better things to do with my life than to sit at a computer all day, which is why StarCraft is only a hobby.
StarCraft lost GameFAQs' Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." poll to Super Smash Brothers Melee, and GameFAQs is a big site. I guess you were ignorant of that poll. But I won't hold it against you, like you do the rest of us unwashed heathens.
I can say whatever I want based on my experience. And yes, I've played plenty of "pro maps" with the idiots on bnet, not just that $$$FASTEST$$$ crap. It makes no difference. I am certainly allowed to voice my opinion that I find melee to be boring. I played a 1v1 BGH tonight and it was boring. But it wouldn't matter even if I was ignorant. That would just mean that StarCraft wasn't interesting enough in the first place to get me into melee gaming. Which is also a strike against your argument, wouldn't you say? That's a Catch 22, if I recall correctly. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" and all that jazz.
I made games and crap in QBasic and Visual Basic when I was in grade school. It was enough for me. I have better things to do with my life than to sit at a computer all day, which is why StarCraft is only a hobby.
StarCraft lost GameFAQs' Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." poll to Super Smash Brothers Melee, and GameFAQs is a big site. I guess you were ignorant of that poll. But I won't hold it against you, like you do the rest of us unwashed heathens.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 02:51:17
QUOTE(Nozomu @ May 14 2005, 01:35 AM)
Are you like a missionary sent by WGTour or something? Because it seems like you're being slightly fanatical and overly zealous about this whole thing.
I can say whatever I want based on my experience. And yes, I've played plenty of "pro maps" with the idiots on bnet, not just that $$$FASTEST$$$ crap. It makes no difference. I am certainly allowed to voice my opinion that I find melee to be boring. I played a 1v1 BGH tonight and it was boring. But it wouldn't matter even if I was ignorant. That would just mean that StarCraft wasn't interesting enough in the first place to get me into melee gaming. Which is also a strike against your argument, wouldn't you say? That's a Catch 22, if I recall correctly. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" and all that jazz.
I made games and crap in QBasic and Visual Basic when I was in grade school. It was enough for me. I have better things to do with my life than to sit at a computer all day, which is why StarCraft is only a hobby.
StarCraft lost GameFAQs' Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." poll to Super Smash Brothers Melee, and GameFAQs is a big site. I guess you were ignorant of that poll. But I won't hold it against you, like you do the rest of us unwashed heathens.
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I can say whatever I want based on my experience. And yes, I've played plenty of "pro maps" with the idiots on bnet, not just that $$$FASTEST$$$ crap. It makes no difference. I am certainly allowed to voice my opinion that I find melee to be boring. I played a 1v1 BGH tonight and it was boring. But it wouldn't matter even if I was ignorant. That would just mean that StarCraft wasn't interesting enough in the first place to get me into melee gaming. Which is also a strike against your argument, wouldn't you say? That's a Catch 22, if I recall correctly. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" and all that jazz.
I made games and crap in QBasic and Visual Basic when I was in grade school. It was enough for me. I have better things to do with my life than to sit at a computer all day, which is why StarCraft is only a hobby.
StarCraft lost GameFAQs' Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." poll to Super Smash Brothers Melee, and GameFAQs is a big site. I guess you were ignorant of that poll. But I won't hold it against you, like you do the rest of us unwashed heathens.
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1. Nope, I just get pissed when people get their egos inflated for nothing.
2. BGH is not really starcraft, it's basically Fastest Possible Map (why is it called that !? fast eco?)
3. Let me get this straight. You didn't like making games in a Basic language, and you don't like being in front of a computer, so you decided to make UMS maps? Huh?
4. Smash Bros isn't anywhere close to being as popular as Starcraft or counter strike world-wide (or even in north america). Do you really think that?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-05-14 at 03:07:25
1. Hypocrite.
2. Well, I did lose the game. But I didn't really care either way. Let's put it this way. I played a melee game. It was boring. I am justified in forming an opinion based on that. I have absolutely no interest in doing more research on the subject. I don't see you out there campaigning against those $$$FASTEST$$$ maps. I wonder why? You obviously hate them with a passion, though they don't detract from your own gaming experience in any way. I think from now on I'll only play $$$FASTEST$$$ maps and then hit up the WGTour forums claiming that UMS is WAAAAY better than melee based on that. Does that sound about right? It seems to me that you've been playing the UMS equivalent of $$$FASTEST$$$ maps, and you're ignorant of how much fun UMS actually is. But unlike you, I don't see the need to convert people to my point of view. In fact, I'm kind of glad I won't see you joining any of my games anytime soon.
3. UMS maps afford me just the level of structure and possible creativity I like. I like to work within systems that are already preconstructed. So yes, that's why I make UMS maps instead of programming. I certainly enjoy playing games and making maps on my computer, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go on some quest to "convert the ignorant melee players to UMS" like you're trying to do in reverse. I guess I just don't care enough about other players to do that. But I do care enough to defend myself and my community when someone jumps into this site and claims that UMS sucks. In fact, why even come here if you are of that opinion? Go start a melee-only mapping site or something and have a ball!
4. Did you even look at the brackets? FF7 won the poll as the best game ever. So yes, StarCraft lost a poll. Not that it bothers me, I play games because they're fun, not because they're popular.
2. Well, I did lose the game. But I didn't really care either way. Let's put it this way. I played a melee game. It was boring. I am justified in forming an opinion based on that. I have absolutely no interest in doing more research on the subject. I don't see you out there campaigning against those $$$FASTEST$$$ maps. I wonder why? You obviously hate them with a passion, though they don't detract from your own gaming experience in any way. I think from now on I'll only play $$$FASTEST$$$ maps and then hit up the WGTour forums claiming that UMS is WAAAAY better than melee based on that. Does that sound about right? It seems to me that you've been playing the UMS equivalent of $$$FASTEST$$$ maps, and you're ignorant of how much fun UMS actually is. But unlike you, I don't see the need to convert people to my point of view. In fact, I'm kind of glad I won't see you joining any of my games anytime soon.
3. UMS maps afford me just the level of structure and possible creativity I like. I like to work within systems that are already preconstructed. So yes, that's why I make UMS maps instead of programming. I certainly enjoy playing games and making maps on my computer, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go on some quest to "convert the ignorant melee players to UMS" like you're trying to do in reverse. I guess I just don't care enough about other players to do that. But I do care enough to defend myself and my community when someone jumps into this site and claims that UMS sucks. In fact, why even come here if you are of that opinion? Go start a melee-only mapping site or something and have a ball!
4. Did you even look at the brackets? FF7 won the poll as the best game ever. So yes, StarCraft lost a poll. Not that it bothers me, I play games because they're fun, not because they're popular.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 03:28:08
QUOTE(Nozomu @ May 14 2005, 02:07 AM)
2. Well, I did lose the game. But I didn't really care either way. Let's put it this way. I played a melee game. It was boring. I am justified in forming an opinion based on that. I have absolutely no interest in doing more research on the subject.
Okay, thanks for showing everyone reading the thread how much of a dumbass you are. Money maps are nothing like actual starcraft: no fun, no strategy, no balance.
QUOTE
I don't see you out there campaigning against those $$$FASTEST$$$ maps. I wonder why?
Hmmm... maybe there wasn't an outpouring of affection for them?
QUOTE
You obviously hate them with a passion, though they don't detract from your own gaming experience in any way.
Well, because of them, you think a melee game on Sin Gaema Gowon is like a game on $BGH$. They apperently tarnish melee.
QUOTE
I think from now on I'll only play $$$FASTEST$$$ maps and then hit up the WGTour forums claiming that UMS is WAAAAY better than melee based on that. Does that sound about right?
Step 1. Scroll up
Step 2. Read that we are in a melee forum
QUOTE
It seems to me that you've been playing the UMS equivalent of $$$FASTEST$$$ maps, and you're ignorant of how much fun UMS actually is. But unlike you, I don't see the need to convert people to my point of view. In fact, I'm kind of glad I won't see you joining any of my games anytime soon.
Give me a break. UMS games are like any other quirky online game you can find. Maybe you haven't realized that?
QUOTE
3. UMS maps afford me just the level of structure and possible creativity I like. I like to work within systems that are already preconstructed. So yes, that's why I make UMS maps instead of programming.
Okay, but it isn't like that isn't possible with programming. You also seem to be a masochist: you enjoy being confined within a limited engine, when if what you want to do it make games your creativity could soar with a game engine a graphics library.
QUOTE
I certainly enjoy playing games and making maps on my computer, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go on some quest to "convert the ignorant melee players to UMS" like you're trying to do in reverse.
What are you doing right now?
QUOTE
I guess I just don't care enough about other players to do that. But I do care enough to defend myself and my community when someone jumps into this site and claims that UMS sucks.
Absolutely no different from what I am doing.
QUOTE
In fact, why even come here if you are of that opinion? Go start a melee-only mapping site or something and have a ball!
We are in a melee forum.
QUOTE
4. Did you even look at the brackets? FF7 won the poll as the best game ever. So yes, StarCraft lost a poll. Not that it bothers me, I play games because they're fun, not because they're popular.[right][snapback]208012[/snapback][/right]
You ignorant dumbass. Are you even aware of the televised pro leagues leagues? Are you aware of the huge popularity of WGTour+PGTour? Does anything even resembling that exist for Smash Bros or FF7? No. People might like those games, but they are not played on anywhere close to the scale as starcraft.
ADDITION:
I hope you viewed it after the edit, the formatting was messed up.
EDIT: typos
ADDITION:
I'm tired, and I can't write right now, so if I didn't make sense, try reading it again T__________________T
I did edit some things.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-05-14 at 03:33:12
I'm saying that I don't like to play melee and that I find it boring, and you disagree. But I'm not stating my opinion as fact, like you. I'm saying people can liek whatever they want, and you're telling me that anyone who likes UMS is an "ignorant dumbass". So no, we're going about this the same way. I am asserting neither that melee is good or bad, just that based on my experiences with melee games and those who play them (i.e. you) I will never play any melee ever again because I don't enjoy melee. I'm not saying it's wrong for you to enjoy it, that would be arrogant and rude of me. But you are telling me that it's wrong to enjoy UMS, and that dog just won't hunt, mon senor.
OMG, the pro leagues. Again, just because a lot of people agree on something doesn't make them right. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, you included. But you seem to be telling me that I am not, and that's just plain rude.
OMG, the pro leagues. Again, just because a lot of people agree on something doesn't make them right. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, you included. But you seem to be telling me that I am not, and that's just plain rude.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 11:03:45
QUOTE(ihatett @ May 14 2005, 01:31 AM)
Thanks psycho, thank god you didn't leave
Because when you reply embedded quotes seem to disappear, I'll just make a list of points:
1. My point about UMS maps only having to please the newbs here was right. A melee map won't please anyone unless it's balanced, which as I described takes a good deal of thought. In other words, your map won't get anywhere except stuck on page 3 of Map Showcase & in Production unless it is an excellent map, which is much harder than making a little jack-around mini game which can spread across battle.net. Melee players have higher tastes, and won't just join some random map.
--
2.
I found this hilarious. Let's put out thinking caps on, shall we? I hope you read this whole paragraph.
Most melee maps when proffesionally released show credits or something along those lines else when used in UMS. That isn't what we are talking about here.Ee were not talking about balanced melee maps with a few triggers thrown in vs balanced melee maps without triggers. We were talking about balanced melee maps vs. what is meant by "UMS maps" 100% of the time. The arguement isn't about whether it's harder to making a balanced melee map or making that same map with triggers showing credits. You, I, and everyone who has been reading knows that.
When UMS maps were mentioned, we were talking about what is meant by "UMS map" literally 100% if the time: minigames, RPGs, bounds, etc. I hope that by this change-of-your-arguement you are agreeing that making a melee map is harder than the aforementioned? If you UMSers switched and started making melee maps, that would be great. But no one in your forums says "I'm going to make a balanced melee map and add triggers showing that I made it", they say "What should be in my new bound?".
--
3. My point about proffesional maps being imbalanced also went over your head. If people who are paid to make maps for televised leagues end up releasing imbalanced maps, then that should show right there that it's harder. Any newb with a mouse can make a well-accepted ums map.
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Because when you reply embedded quotes seem to disappear, I'll just make a list of points:
1. My point about UMS maps only having to please the newbs here was right. A melee map won't please anyone unless it's balanced, which as I described takes a good deal of thought. In other words, your map won't get anywhere except stuck on page 3 of Map Showcase & in Production unless it is an excellent map, which is much harder than making a little jack-around mini game which can spread across battle.net. Melee players have higher tastes, and won't just join some random map.
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2.
I found this hilarious. Let's put out thinking caps on, shall we? I hope you read this whole paragraph.
Most melee maps when proffesionally released show credits or something along those lines else when used in UMS. That isn't what we are talking about here.Ee were not talking about balanced melee maps with a few triggers thrown in vs balanced melee maps without triggers. We were talking about balanced melee maps vs. what is meant by "UMS maps" 100% of the time. The arguement isn't about whether it's harder to making a balanced melee map or making that same map with triggers showing credits. You, I, and everyone who has been reading knows that.
When UMS maps were mentioned, we were talking about what is meant by "UMS map" literally 100% if the time: minigames, RPGs, bounds, etc. I hope that by this change-of-your-arguement you are agreeing that making a melee map is harder than the aforementioned? If you UMSers switched and started making melee maps, that would be great. But no one in your forums says "I'm going to make a balanced melee map and add triggers showing that I made it", they say "What should be in my new bound?".
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3. My point about proffesional maps being imbalanced also went over your head. If people who are paid to make maps for televised leagues end up releasing imbalanced maps, then that should show right there that it's harder. Any newb with a mouse can make a well-accepted ums map.
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1. Ignorant
2. Ignorant
3. Ignorant
You make comments about something you know nothing about, which is making a UMS Map. Also, if you don't understand why your post was ignorant, then you prove my point once again.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 11:58:48
Well, I'm glad you can't actually argue with what I said, and intead just say "ignorant". I'll reply to Nozomu instead. Actually, I'll respond in my next post, never mind that.
Again, I was disagreeing that you called it "boring and repetitive", saying that the only way it would be like that is if you played money maps, which you do. Money maps are widely hated and are nothing like playing on an actual balanced map. I find it funny that you play on a map which most melee players hate and use that to say melee sucks.
I never said that because someone likes UMS they are an "ignorant dumbass". Please quote it in context.
You don't play melee, you play money maps. Do you not see the difference!?
Again, why do you keep saying that I said that? I never did.
You are incredibly stupic. You were saying that Super Smash Bros and FF7 were more popular than Starcraft, and talking about the amatuer and televised pro leagues to prove your statement wrong. I was not using that to prove that melee was better than UMS, stop trying to warp what I said.
ADDITION:
devilesk:
1. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
2. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
3. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
4. You still haven't told us what makes UMS making the only human activity which can only be judged if you do it. Do you think your hobby is that special?
QUOTE
I'm saying that I don't like to play melee and that I find it boring, and you disagree. But I'm not stating my opinion as fact, like you.
Again, I was disagreeing that you called it "boring and repetitive", saying that the only way it would be like that is if you played money maps, which you do. Money maps are widely hated and are nothing like playing on an actual balanced map. I find it funny that you play on a map which most melee players hate and use that to say melee sucks.
QUOTE
I'm saying people can liek whatever they want, and you're telling me that anyone who likes UMS is an "ignorant dumbass".
I never said that because someone likes UMS they are an "ignorant dumbass". Please quote it in context.
QUOTE
So no, we're going about this the same way. I am asserting neither that melee is good or bad, just that based on my experiences with melee games and those who play them (i.e. you) I will never play any melee ever again because I don't enjoy melee.
You don't play melee, you play money maps. Do you not see the difference!?
QUOTE
I'm not saying it's wrong for you to enjoy it, that would be arrogant and rude of me. But you are telling me that it's wrong to enjoy UMS, and that dog just won't hunt, mon senor.
Again, why do you keep saying that I said that? I never did.
QUOTE
OMG, the pro leagues. Again, just because a lot of people agree on something doesn't make them right. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, you included. But you seem to be telling me that I am not, and that's just plain rude.
You are incredibly stupic. You were saying that Super Smash Bros and FF7 were more popular than Starcraft, and talking about the amatuer and televised pro leagues to prove your statement wrong. I was not using that to prove that melee was better than UMS, stop trying to warp what I said.
ADDITION:
devilesk:
QUOTE(devilesk @ May 14 2005, 10:03 AM)
1. Ignorant
2. Ignorant
3. Ignorant
You make comments about something you know nothing about, which is making a UMS Map. Also, if you don't understand why your post was ignorant, then you prove my point once again.
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2. Ignorant
3. Ignorant
You make comments about something you know nothing about, which is making a UMS Map. Also, if you don't understand why your post was ignorant, then you prove my point once again.
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1. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
2. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
3. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
4. You still haven't told us what makes UMS making the only human activity which can only be judged if you do it. Do you think your hobby is that special?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 12:02:41
QUOTE
1. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
2. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
3. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
2. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
3. Explain, nothing I said was wrong.
If I have to explain then that is why you should actually try making a UMS map, before you start judging it.
QUOTE
4. You still haven't told us what makes UMS making the only human activity which can only be judged if you do it. Do you think your hobby is that special?
Many things have to be done before you judge it, mainly because you need the experience of doing it. Even if you haven't done it you can still judge it, but it doesn't make your opinion as valid as if you had actually done it. Especially since the comments you made were so ignorant and it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-14 at 12:04:44
I do something that requires more inteliigence than UMS-map making, and is extremeley similar. What comments were extremely ignorant that I made? Quote them, and explain why they are ignorant, starting with the last three things which you said.
And why won't you actually respond to my points? You know you're wrong, buddy.
And why won't you actually respond to my points? You know you're wrong, buddy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-14 at 12:07:41
Oh yes I'm wrong, thats coming from someone who has no experience in what they are talking about.
I've already done it this throughout the entire topic.
QUOTE
Quote them, and explain why they are ignorant, starting with the last three things which you said.
I've already done it this throughout the entire topic.