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Guys, stop. Either argue with a solid point without mockery or don't at all. Unless the mockery is actually funny; free of the foul language.

I don't know why you insist personally attacking the poster instead of doing a rebuttal on what they said. You don't go around insulting people since they don't believe the same way as you do. You're just an ignorant person who believes that they're Christian. If he wanted us to have free will, people wouldn't be dying.

If that's directed towards me, I thought mine was kinda funny.

How about talk about it from a neutral side, instead of on the I-Hate-Christians-Side-and-I'm-in-Denial-of-any-proof-they-give-me side...
Now tell me, what I wrote all that, was not any proof at all? You never said anything about that... you just ignored me and like picked at the most vulnerable parts, little parts, and proved them wrong.
And please, if you're THAT against christianity, why not prove wrong the most convincing christians of all? I'll give you the list again...
First I will tell you their name and in the parenthesis, it's what they can answer.
Peter John Kreeft, PH.D (Since Evil and Suffering Exist, a Loving God Cannot.)
Willian Lane Craig, PH.D (Since Miracles Contradict Science, They Cannot be True)
Walter L. Bradley, PH.D (Evolution Explains Life, So God isn't Needed)
Norman L. Geisler, PH.D (God isn't Worthy of Worship if he Kills innocent children)
Ravi Zacharias, D.D., LL.D. (It's offensive to Claim Jeses Is the Only Way to God)
J.P.Moreland, PH.D. (A Loving God would never torture people in Hell)
There'll be more and I could give you some info on where they live...

Like a supernatural being with the power to create universes makes much more sense then Evolution.

Problem 1. Did you read any of the replies to the post; more specifically, my replies?

Problem 2. Why did you repeat yourself?

And I did answer all of your "problems". But maybe you just need to think about what I said before restating yourself again.


It's called being ignorant. He would rather say "goddidit" than actually try to find out the truth. It's sad.

Don't try to prove me wrong, prove them wrong. They're what's helping hold up my faith....

Wow. This is going to be entertaining. I'm not trying to change your beliefs at all. However, from what you've said, you have either:

1. misinterpreted what they said
2. misinterpreted what I said
3. ignore what people say
4. repeatly said the samething

It's getting old. Please, actually read the replies.

I have stated dozens of times before, but I'll say it again; I'm not trying to change your beliefs. However, I am trying to show the flaws within them.


Humans? I thought it was Jesus's death that holds your faith? Come on, if you're going to rely on some humans, then at least follow the majority of science. Not some crazy people who think earth is 6000 years old.

How about this, provide some examples of work they have and I'll see what I can give you. I think that sounds fair.

I dind't say the Earth was 6000 years old. I don't know about how long the Earth was created, but I just believe in God because I choose to be with God, i feel safer with God, and when I think of God, I do the right things, like I am about to beat up a kid, but then I think about how God would feel, so I stop or something like that...

Edit: Aww... don't make me copy down the book...

Read this book: The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel and PLEASE read it if you want to prove me wrong. And please READ it! Or else, I will copy it down and write what it REALLY means... and it will delay the coming of my 1337 MAPS SO HA!

God would beat up the kid if he believed in Evolution.

Good job on misinterpreting my post yet again. Did I ever say you beleived the earth was 6000 years old?


Funny; I feel the exact opposite. I don't feel safe when an omnipotent god can kill me with one touch. I don't feel like I can do the right things because he's pressuring me to do his will, else go to hell.

However, I do know the difference of right and wrong. Sadly, my version of right and wrong is only an opinion and cannot be defined without it. I know what is right and what is wrong in this working world. One can obviously see that "stealing" is wrong. But was this a crime before or after god "came"?


I told you, the "The Case for ..." books are terrible examples. Perhaps you can give me another book and possibly some place that give's reviews also?


Only if the kid was disabled.

i believe in god.. thank you thank you... now will you shut the up? this topic is old and I hate discussing about it... cheeze your a ing asshole believe in god or die and burn in hell ;P

That is the most ignorant reply if I have ever heard one. Cheeze, has very good points, especially about books written by MAN

A book written by man to explain something they cannot comprehend? That is stupid if you believe it. I am not saying that your beliefs are wrong, I am stating that your beliefs have flaws in them, like Cheeze has clearely stated.



I agree. Is it not, "Survival of the Fittest?"

If everybody was brainwashed to think that hurting and killing was not wrong, wouldn't it still be a wrong thing?

And you don't burn in hell. It's just a place where you are completely separated from God.

Right and Wrong is based on opinions and points of view.

No, there is a definite wrong, like killing a living thing that has feelings. Torture is a definite wrong. I cannot think of one person who is intelligent who would not have any remorse after torturing...


If it's survival of the fittest, what is the point of helping others. I bet you're going to say so they can help you. So, where did all those proverbs come out of? And plus, I find it hard to believe everything we have here came out from chance.

And isn't it innocent until proven guilty? If you have no definite proof that God doesn't exist and it proves ALMOST EVERY SINGLE THING WRONG in God, then that religion is considered false...


Just cuz these books can actually prove you wrong... did you read ALL of them? Its like saying since Star Wars Episode 2 sucked, I'm not gonna even bother watching any more. But, most people say "This was one of the bad ones, I guess the other ones will be better"

I don't think there is a definite wrong or right, its just what everyone believes to be wrong or right.



How is it definite? I think it's only because over the many years we have been on earth we have come to this "conclusion" though right and wrong is something we thought up, it's not like nature told us this is right and this is wrong, unless God did, I don't know.



You're an idiot, don't post in this topic then.

Depends on exactly what it is. Hurting and killing is not wrong if something beneficial comes out of it. Then again, it could be harmful and beneficial at the same time; thus making it only a point of view problem.


Yeah, I love how you guys have different opinions on religious things but still consider it the same. Then how you guys say we're stupid because we don't share the same opinions you do.


All a point of view. I've asked this before also, but no one has been able to do it:

Define good or bad without using the point of view.


Yes it is; however, in the science field, it's "everything is false until proven true".


The books can't prove me wrong. I have already showed that you guys have no basis on your evidence. I have also shown that your only source is faith. Since only one person seems to agree with me and is on your side, I feel like you guys will never understand me.

However, the book it self is exactly what you have presented, except it uses larger words to appear "professional". The books still provide the same arguements, each one with larger flaws than the next. It's incredibly ridiculous that people can still believe in fairy tales.

No one is brainwashed into thinking that hurting and killing is right. Where the hell did you get that from?



By moral standards, killing is wrong. It is MORAL standards! Torture is a wrong thing to do, but people still do it. You're right. Most intelligent people don't torture because they know it proves how stupid you are, by stooping to a lower level of intelligence.

There is no point of helping others. Helping others is a way of showing kindness, not a way of proving someone wrong. That proverb has been around for a long time. In the animal kingdom, is it not survival of the fittest? Does a Falcon not eat a fish so it may still live? Does a cheetah not eat a gazel so it may prosper? That is how it is survival of the fittest. If a gazel could outrun a cheetah, the cheetah would know that that animal is not good to go after cause it wastes all it's energy on it, that animal being fitter then the cheetah.

But then, the cheetah LEARNS to bring his allies along, so they may beat the cheetah. Thus, proving "Survival of the Fittest".

Nothing we have here came out of chance. Everything has evolved. Do you know how earth was made? It was made by all the "space" gas and all the matter, and dust comming together and forming a molten planet. Eventually, the evolved and formed oceans and land masses. When the oceans were made, there were one celled organisms called, Amebas (I don't know how to spell that) Eventually these one celled organisms joined together to create fish. And if you really do believe in the evolution process, the fish eventually evolved and "Sprouted" legs and developed lungs so they were able to walk on the earth. That is how nothing came from chance



Where did you get that from? We never said anything was WRONG about god. We were clearly stating the obvious flaws in religion.



Again, where do you come up with this? We never said there was proof he doesn't exist, we stated our OPPINIONS. But answer this, is there any SUBSTANTUAL proof that "God" DOES exist?



How can they "Prove us wrong"? All these books are, are books written by common man to tell people their FAITH. FAITH is not FACTS. FACTS are things that can be PROVEN. "God" can only be "PROVEN" because a book says so.... A book, written by MAN



Yes, most intelligent people would say this. But this world is full of idiots and morons!

Would you consider your religion a "Sheep Herder" and you a "Sheep"? Because from what I can see, you follow your "FAITH" blindly. Christianity is not the religion that you are depicting.

Christianity is a religion where if you believe in "God" and "Jesus", then you should be able to live a good life. Christianity DOES NOT SAY to go around and flaunt your religion to non-believers, and say that they are "Going to hell if they don't believe in god" and this shit and that. You my friend, are not a true Christian since you do exactly, what your religion says NOT to do.

here here!!!!

^WTF?

I have more, but can you really prove anything exists? Maybe everything that's happening may be a mad scientist stimulating your brain to makeing you think what's going on...



The Bible is not ONE book, it's a compilation of many books that were inspired by God. Yes, it was written by MAN, but aren't all books made by MAN? And yet the Bible is the only book with "flaws"... And why can't you talk to the list of ppl I gave to you? You're ignoring that part, I don't know why... You're all grown ppl that have nothing better to do...

Theres definate right or wrong.
And what iam doing is wrONG!
:D:D:D:D:

Kellimus, you seem to love using the word intelligent in many contexts. Intelligence doesn't mean everything, nor should it be used as a standpoint in an arguement.

Neiji still stands by the arguement that we can't prove him false, yet he can't prove him real.

How do you know that the "Bible" was inspired by god, cause "It" says so?

I won't talk to the list of people that you gave us, because there is no reason to get people outside the forum involved. You're ignoring the part on how IGNORANT you are!

We have lots of things to do. We are just trying to get a point across to an ignorant person.

Click here. Truly, right now I would insult the people who think they use logic with absolutely "no faith", but since Cheeze has been learning to hold his tongue, I shall too.

Oh, and Cheeze, don't tell me you already forgot about our little talk about an infinite universe in "Infinity, Oh Infinty".

Edit: I am not purposely avoiding the questions posted earlier; I merely wish to bring up other points.