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With those hours, I could be studying things I've always wanted to do, such as programming, chess, starcraft, homework, whatever else, instead of worshipping some guy who can't even show his face and let us know he's even there.

Also, by driving to the church, that is a plus in dangers like car wrecks. Why would god place you in a time that could mean death just to worship him? Yeah, god works in strange ways, maybe it will be for the best.

Also, church is a good chill out with many of your friends.

Evolution and Atheism are neither capable of confirmation nor falsification, so why bother?

I am currently checking the accuracy of the Bible. I am doing a google search using: Inaccuracy of Bible.

Sites found speaking for Inaccuracy of Bible:
Short essay on Argument of conflicting Long day Short day. I have a theory about how God created the earth, but I have more searching to do.
Morals of Bible and other things. This site will make you proud DrunkenWrestler. I actually like it too. It's fun debating in a one-way conversation with the website. I've only looked at half of the whole page, but I see no fallacies except the more possibilities fallacy. Nevertheless, it is a very interesting website.


Sites found speaking against Inaccuracy of Bible:
Disputing Accuracy of the Bible and noting fallacies. This was a rather formal website. This and the 2nd website for Inaccuracy are great for debating.
Dead Sea Scrolls and Copies argument. Also look at it's brother, although has some fallacies. Historically Accurate?
Bible Archaeology An Ok topic about archaeological digs. In paragraph 3 a red flag comes up with a fallacy. This, in essence, truly isn't an argument, but it is facts. Skip this if short on time.
Is the Bible Infallible? I did not get to read all of this, but I sensed circular reasoning. Some parts I guess were supposed to be "obvious". (I read your 'more logical fallacies link')

Something for DrunkenWrestler to be amused at:
Interesting but with some fallacies and miswording. So this is how you feel during this whole discussion (>.<) (Miss McKenzies place)

Now Drunken, it is true that currently I have found more websites against Inaccuracy and less for Inaccuracy, but my mom once said, "Only 1% of people you ever meet will know as much information of the Bible as you do." Me: What? Isn't like 10% of the world or something less than that are Christians? "Yes, many people are 'Christians' and go to church, but few ever actually study or even READ the Bible." *shivers
Use inference to understand how the quote relates to the "It is true..., but..." statement. If anyone does not understand, ask.

Also, You can check for more websites too; I only looked at the first two pages of Google because I had to go to bed. Let's debate on the websites! (hmm debate is much better than my loaded word bicker which i used before... )

So, is the information slightly appeasing your hunger for truth?

I believe there was a Jesus but not that he had all that resurrection crap happen but instead he was a prophet like someone who just wanted peace and stuff but I don't believe there was actually a god and from the few posts I read it seems like most people don't either, thank god (I know how retarded that must sound, but you know what I mean, I grew up saying that) that we have a bunch of non believers in here.

To be honest, I think we need spiritualism. Skeptical cynicism is not particularly fulfilling - and I should know that. I'm always struck by how religious people can be incredibly satisfied with their lives and accept their lot, whilst atheists constantly moan and grumble about life, leeching off of state welfare systems whilst criticising that very system (painting with a very broad brush here - I'm talking about non-successful atheists mainly).

The religious run charities and try to bring aid to sufferers of all kinds of things (I would definitely be right in saying that the majority of charitable organisations are founded on religion), whilst atheists generally look out for themselves (after all, it's the logical thing to do) and believe that others should look out for themselves.

So, spiritualism, religion, God - whatever - helps bring about caring for a community, whilst non-spiritualism generally teaches (indirectly) that you should put yourself first - it's instinct after all.

What do you think of that? I know it's very flawed, but I'm interested to know if you agree with anything in this post or not.

With all the evidence we have, evolution is the best theory for biodiversity, but let's not get into that (go to Nozomu's thread for that). And atheism doesn't make any affirmative claims, so it doesn't have to prove God does not exist, I guess you only skimed the logical fallacies websites.

After all, you can't truely confirm or falsify agents that distort NASA pictures of our flat Earth, making it look round, nor can you confirm or falsify a wormhole at the edges of the flat Earth that takes you to the opposite edge like a pacman game. However, if you take the stance false until proven true, the superfluous bulls*** are eliminated and you get an Earth that is a sphere.

It works the same with God. No evidence? I won't bother believing in it. If you do have evidence, submit it for some rigorous scientific testing, and if substaniated, give me an email (I'll be leaving SEN soon, I won't get any PMs). No one has succeeded in doing that in the 2000 years Christianity has existed.

The non-existence of garden demons are neither capable of confirmation or falsification, so why bother? They can't prove garden demons do not exist, so keep an open mind, and don't go outside at night... just in case a garden demon might attack you.


I really don't care about those websites, your posting history indicates you're not logically enabled which would let some websites slip through your balony detector.

Here's something you can try too, search for websites against inaccuracies for other holy books.


Pretty superfical post, actually. I used be a member of http://www.christianforums.com/f9. No one there could give me a reason to believe in God. I must be posessed by Satan.


Would a just God burn you in hell for not believing in him? Espeically when he has supplied such meager evidence to give you reason to worship him? It's absurd. This diety gives you no reason for you to worship him, or any sign he exist, and bases your eternal afterlife on the extent of blind faith. He is so elusive and quiescent, and you are expected to somehow believe he exist. Failure to comply, despite the lack of warnings and signs, will lead you to Hell.

It's like dying and finding out God is a giant fish, and anyone who has ever tasted fish is tossed into the pit. No heads up, no warning signs, no reason to even suspect that was ever the case. Just a justifiable farce to burn you in Hell. If God says "worship me or die," that isn't a loving relationship with God. That's more like complying with a terrorist's demands so you don't get your head blown off.

Why don't you believe in Zeus, just in case he sends you to Hades for non-belief? Maybe you shouldn't bother believing in God "just in case," because God only allows those who believe in him sincierly, not those who worship him out of greed for immortality. Maybe you should step into atheism, because maybe God only uses the bible as a lure for idiots and only lets atheist and agnostics into heaven.

Some people don't care if their religion is right or not. I got into a long arguement with a mormon, and she finally said, "I don't care if he exists or not. I just like to believe in it. It don't matter if he exists. Seriously."
I'm pretty sure at least half the people here already knew this. They honestly believe it don't matter, when in fact, it totally matters. Giving yourself false hope, makes me feel pity for you. The same pity as that robot kid from AI trying to become a real boy.

Well, whatever helps people to sleep at night I guess.

Wasn't it said by some guy on The Matrix that hope was humanity's greatest strength and their greatest weakness?

Some of the stuff they say on the Matrix I disagree with though. But, I think they ddi say that. Hope is good, if it's viable and possible, but otherwise it's kind of a waste of energy and time.

I comepletely agree with waht Drunken Wrestler said. There is no reason to believe in god. Building off of his example with the Earth being flat or a sphere, people blindly believed the Earth was flat and it took them a while to see the truth, some still believe the Earth is flat, despite the evidence that it's a sphere. They believe the easy thing. I think religion is like the same thing. There is very little evidence that shows a god exists that can't be countered by science, I think we're nearly done. It will take people a while to change though, because they want to believe the easy thing.

Just to let you know, mormon is not christian... they distort a lot of things... there's a southpark episode that explains my viewpoint on mormons

[Edit] Wow... I do NOT remember writing this... well I mean, i dont remember writing "they distort a lot of things"[/Edit]

[Edit] God = Good [/Edit]

Definetly believe God exists without a doubt :-).

Definately believe no god or magical spirit exists without a doubt :-)

lol Kow, I remember that episode, it was hilarious, Other than that, I know very little about Mormons. What are their beliefs... I assume they believe in a god like CHristians?...

If I recall correctly, some of the mormons say it's ok to have multiple wives. Maybe back then it was great to have 2-3 wives. But now a days, it's usually not good to even have one.

Here you say that you want evidence of god being real. I ask you to prove that god isn't real. I personally have a hard time believeing that a big explosion caused life to start. And how is religion the easy thing? Its just as easy to blindly beleive that the big bang created us all as it is to beleive a god or creator made us.
Edit: False hope is bad But real hope is good. Prove to me that god doesn't exist and i'll stop hopinbg alright ;P

This point was brought up my Drunken already.

Something that doesn't exist cannot leave traces to it's existance nor evidence that makes it not exist.

So, then, by that logic, I believe elves to exist, as well as fairies, trolls, and that poptart that came to alive that one day. You cannot prove me wrong; therefore, they exist.

I'm going to put forward the argument that God exists outside the Universe and so is not bound by logic and cannot possibly be understood by humans. Therefore debate of his/her/it's existence is pointless.

Remember, I'm not of a particular viewpoint - I'm just churning the waters.

THANK YOU FOR THAT POINT!!!! HORRAY!! WHAT A GREAT WAY TO PUT IT!!!!

Ahem... sorry about that. You see... I've been TRYING to say something like that.. but they've constantly been misunderstanding what I'm saying. We cannot "prove" or "deny" the existance of God, because if God doesn't exist, there would be no evidence to find, and if God does exist, the evidence (such as nature, irreducible complexity, and other things) is not "substancial evidence" to atheists.

Therefore, examine the evidence that DOES exist. When I stated that, they thought I meant God, which led to an insults hurled at me. The evidence that DOES exist is Jesus Christ. Most historians may doubt Jesus being Christ (Lord Liar or Lunatic), but they DON'T doubt his existance. Also, the accuracy of the Bible is near perfection! 99.8% (The translation between languages sorta threw off meanings of some words. the 4,000 and 40,000 could have been a typo made by the stupid English! gah! )

Also, it is interesting to mention that Jesus never claimed he was the Son of God. God twice (in his booming voice) said that Jesus is his son. Jesus calls God his "Father". He once asked his desciples who he think he is. When Peter came up and said "You are son of the most high God", Jesus responded by telling him to tell no one of this. When Jesus prophesized about himself, he talked about himself in the third person! So of course, you can use inference and realize that Jesus is the Son of God.

Also, things such as "The world just came into existance 5 sconds ago", he was "a super-human", "Alien", "just a Prophet" all fall into the categories of the trilemma if you use your logically enabled part of your brains.

Be careful about taking reference from the Bible. There were about 80 gospels and only a few actually made it into the New Testament. The Romans and then the Church made sure that the gospels used in the NT corroborated in their subtle mentioning of Jesus as the Son of God - nearly all of the rest of the gospels only spoke of him as a man. Some even claimed that he had married and had a child.

Don't take the Bible as actual fact, it was a book compiled by people with a political agenda.

Hey did you just remember learning this in the past, or did you find a website about it? If you found a website about it, can I see it!!! Now we're getting somewhere....

I actually found it in a well-researched novel based on fact.

It has overwhelming evidence (or appears to have) for Mary Magdalene (who wrote a gospel herself) and Jesus' marriage and birth of a son.

That wasn't received well by many Christians who thought that Magdalene was a prostitute and Jesus was celibate.

Oh, and have a look at Da Vinci's painting of the Last Supper. Isn't the person on Jesus' right and our left, a woman? See the man sitting next to her making a cutting gesture at her throat? Also, note that there is a disembodied hand with a knife underneath the disciple with his hands held up.
Weird.

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/leonard...stsupp.jpg.html

OOoooh that IS weird!

Your URL didn't work so i'll try to find a large painting of it on a website

Agh couldn't find any... hey maybe Mary is holding it there? I mean it could just be a cutting knife for the food... There is a lot of modern stuff added in there that wouldn't have been in Jesus' time most likely

But, if god exists outside the universe or w/e, then he is not terrestrial, thereofre, you have to agree that he is an alien entity, and if Jesus is the son of god, then that means Jesus is an alien because he is not completely originated from the Earth.


Churn churn churn, lol I wonder what kind of response I'll get to this post,

Nuts, I can't prove garden demons do not exist, better not go outside at night, just in case.

Go read post #40.


The same can be said for my alleged super-duper paranormal garden demons. Still, it is upon me to prove my affirmative claim, not the skeptic.


That's because there are an infinate number of other possibilites that can account for those (evolution can account for IC systems, by the way). Anything can explain those effects, such as solipsism, the 5min creation hypothesis, to Goddidit. Did you totally miss my point about Occam's Razor/the law of parsimony? When coming to a conclusion, don't multiply more entities than necessary to explain anything, and start with what is already known.

Taking your logic, I don't know how lightning is made, but since it does exist, it must be the doing of Zeus, he created that phenomena, and left that evidence behind. This logic suffers from multiplying entities needlessly, not starting with what is already known (such as the positive/negative charges of atoms), and the argument from ignorance fallacy. Even if I lived in a age where we're oblivious to the existence of atoms, absence of evidence does not serve as evidence for the absent (Zeus).

This also suffers from the affirming the consequence fallacy. You assume that A implies B, B is true, therefore A is true. I''ll demonstrate why this is a flawed line of reasoning.

"If there are invisible fairies interacting in this world, they will pull this rock towards the center of the earth if I let go of this rock. The rock has dropped to the ground, therefore invisible fairies exist."

"If we are in a Sims video game, we will expect to see order in the universe. The universe is ordered, therefore we are in a Sims video game."

Again, since B is true, you assume A is also true. You think God created nature, and nature exist, so God must also exist.

Ya. Gods are just there to explain the unexplained to the people that don't know how it works, there's no point of believing in God nowadays if we already have an explanation for everything. To modern day people, Rain is no longer made of holy tears, it's made of water. Earthquakes are no longer caused by the Earth God, it's caused by plate tectonics, we don't have any use for gods anymore except for cultural purposes. so I say we should just throw out the idea of religion.

God is like an idea. To show us the good way to life and make us a better person then before.
Thats why the bible was created to guide us to the right path
If god didn't exist then people would go the wrong path and lead to doom...
Thats why god was created but people started to think he was really....