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What I was saying, Dark, is that FK doesn't deserve to be treated with the disrespect you showed her. The post in which you spoke to her was VERY rude and it had an arrogant tone to it. If you didn't mean to be hurtful, just state so. I am not "jumping in" for no reason, this is my thread and I asked that there be no disputes. If you continue making comments like "shut-up" I will have you out of this thread or this thread closed. Please don't make me do that when I am trying to help. You first replied to Cheeze, he then backed himself up. You said "Why don't you?". You addressed him first, so he address you. No one is "against" you dark, heck I would like your company in this thread because I think you have some good points, but when you disrespect others it lowers your respect. Do not scientists look to science for answers? Cheeze's comment about Kirby comes ffrom another thread where they discussed this(or was it this thread...). Again(and probably for the last time...) stop arguing and ask some questions.

To address your question about Mike I will need some specific details. Are you asking who he is because you haven't read but know about him? Or maybe you have soem opinions and want others. I think I am thinking about another angel so refresh my memory on what his major scriptures are(I think I am thinking about Gabriel...).

Adam and Eve:
There was a bad apple in one of the trees and cuz of that we are now sinful. Why didnt God get rid of the apple if he knew what would happen?

Cuz he gave us a choice. He doesn't want to fully control our lives and make us be like servants with no free mind. He gave us an autonomous mindset, in which we choose to do what to do. So basically that bad apple was simply a test, and because of Satan's deceivement, adam and eve fell to the dark side

Well if his specific name is mentioned in the bible he must have some form of purpose. Good or bad. Since you're answering our questions I wanted to know if you knew the answer to who Michael is(no not Gabriel).

Small Hint: Michael had/has a task to complete.

Except for the problem that there is no free will if the future is already set. Unless you admit God cannot see the future (which makes him not omniscient), then it's possible free wil exists.

What's with all the anti-god comments?

You are now trying to tangle the bible's words by saying if we have free will, then god cannot predeict the future which means he's not omniscient.

Does god need to be omniscient?
Do we have proof that time is a dimension, or there is such a thing as Fate,(or destiny).
If you can prove that there is a for certain FATE that we cannot deceive from, then your point will be correct.

Otherwise all you're saying is that God KNOWS the future. But nothing in the bible says god Knows the future, however it does say he can peer into the fate of mandkind since he created us, but this is only as we are imperfect. If God knew the outcome of everything, he wouldn't waste time with testing our integrity now would he?

But of course if you don't believe in god, then that's a diferent story.

I prefer to say, contridictions within beliefs.


Yup. But don't worry, I believe in fate.


Does god need to be omnipotent?


Good, because I was trying to make sense of your other things and it didn't work out.


Yes it does. If I could see your future, then your future is set, no matter what happens, because of a certain event were to "change" it, then that event that was suppose to "change" it didn't change it at all, but instead, only supports the around laid fate.

Example:
Event A is going to happen.
Event B tries to change it.
Event B turns out to be the foundation of Event A.


You are fated not to. Giving the exact situation again, how many times would you try to go on a red light? When I say exact, I mean exact. As in, nothing, absolutly nothing is changed. This includes time, knowledge, existance, placement, everything.

I have found out, given the same situation, the action one takes will always be the same. But of course, this is just a personal belief.


Yeah, that's because they are both evolution.


Of course. But this proves nothing. Evolution does not happen instantly, it's the gradual change of one specie. But we're not going to get into that so I'm not going to try to argue this point.

I suppose I should thank Cheeze for not straying into evolution. This is Christianity Questions, thank you. Cheeze, I feel as if you are ...(how to word this..) "misunderstanding" fate. God didn't sit down one day and say "Okay on April 27th indecisiveman will make a post...". He knows I will make a post tomorrow(an example) about..whatever. Nothing will change me making that post. Now you can say "But what if you get sick tomorrow and can't leave bed?" Well then God knew that would happen. He didn't "set" fate, just knows what will happen. There is a test tomorrow, you study(and for this discussion...) you also DON'T study. Now two things can happen. You can study and get a good grade, or not study and get a bad grade. No matter which you choose, God knows what it will be. If that doesn't clear it up you have no hope

*giggles* "Contradictions with beliefs"

About the whole Bad Fruit thing. Again(this was mentioned earlier....) it was God's plan for there to be evil. Yes He knew Adam and Eve would partake of it. Yes He knew it was evil. No He didn't want it gone. It was purposely put there.

Call this spam if you want, but why is Cheeze trying so hard to prove god is non-existant? Just answer me that.

Oh yeah


Well, according to the bible god created us...the earth...the animals....the seas.... the air... So as far as i'm concerned he seems pretty omnipotent to me.

If you create a character in a game, but give it its' own AI. And it can think on it's own, you would therefor at least think about creating a very suitable living world for what you've created. Now this character you've created has never seen you, so he isn't 100% sure he believes you are real. One day you create an NPC to send messages to him. He now has a reason to believe that you did create him, tho he feels he has no exact proof. But of course he thinks about the fact that the Prophet(NPC) fortold all these things about what can happen in his world. If he believes in the Creator then he would submit himself to the idea that he is omnipotent, for he created his ENTIRE WORLD and can predict what will happen. Abd as the creator, you most defenitely are Omnipotent to the contrast of the world of your character.
So now put 2 and 2 together and make 4 before you say i dont understand you.

And just because i know how people like to feel someone is leaning on their side of an opinion, I'll say this:
If you don't believe in your creator, then obviously in the remark towards you he is not omnipotent, anything that happens you shall disregard as something within your own power of changing, altering, or occuring.

This makes perfect sense to me. I'm amazed you guys are against this, I don't get it. Cause if god is omniscient, then why did he place the apple in the garden of eden in the 1st place? He alrdy KNEW adam was going to take it.

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." I think the question is not why he put the tree of knowledge, it is why did he put the tree of life? Isn't it essentially just risking being all-powerful? It seems the other tree was simply there to justify banishing them.

God is the strongest. Why wont he kill Satan and his bitch ass demons?

I ask you people Do not make me close this thread. We are straying WAY far away form asking useful questions. Alpha, your question has been answered about 6 times by now. People wonder why I get angrey, well here is why. People like alpha here who come in and don't bother to read previous posts. Ruff I will ask you to stay out of this or ask proper questions, not cuss and put forth spam.

Well Dark, Cheeze believfes there isn't a God(I think...) and wants to convey that to others, much as I try to tell people I DO believe in a God. There is nothing wrong with it, except that this is a Christianity topic, not one for atheists/agnostic, etc. I will post this so people are reminded of what I asked for.


Now please do not stray from this idea. The last three(I guess four...) have been complete spam and those questions were alreayd answered MANY times. Again I stress that we stay on topic or this thread will be closed.

Yup. Too bad this kind of thing isn't like the real world. There is way too much evidence to show that earth was not created as well as animals not being created. If you were the creator of this AI, would you purposly put this stuff here on the environment to test your AI's beliefs (of course, you would also realize ahead of time which one it would choose). And then, if he fails, send him to the recycle bin (hell), even though it was you who created all the evidence?


I don't believe in god. I don't see why I should. And I do not try to change you, only to show the flaws within your beliefs.

That's if you know what your future is already.

There's a difference between US the humans knowing the future, and God knowing the future. He knows basically every thought and action of ours but we dont know every thought and action of God. Just like a Square can be a Rectangle, but a Rectangle can't always be a square.

Once we know what our future would be, THEN we have no free will. But that's not the case. God knows what we're gonna do, but we dont. How do we find out what our future actions would be? Well, we will have to just see for ourselves by continuing on with our daily lives.

Millenium. I kind've see why you have little skepticism into your own religion. If God can know the future, it means that future is deinite, or else he could not see it. Just because we can't doesn't mean it's not set. Don't say it's different somehow, it's not. Unless, of course, you could always say "God works outside of the rules", and disregard a nicely thought out argument. Still, I want my question answered.

Your question was answered many times and it won't be answered again. Stop being lazy and look at the other posts. Cheeze, I never said you tried to convert people. I said convey(means get the message across). I think that word was "definite". You fail to understand what "fate" is. Looking back upon Cheeze's post I agree with it now(if it means what I think it does...)



An example of this would be a car accident. Your fate is to end up dieing in a car accident. When you see a car about to hit you you slam the brakes and veer left. In the end you turn into a concrete building and blow up(although very unlikely it is a good example). Your fate was to die in a car accident. You try and change it. Eventually your fate is met. It also means your fate is set on a certain something. Someone interferes, but that interference leads up to what your fate was in the beginning. It is complex to understand but read it a lot and you will understand it.

I never said they were different. Besides i wasnt even talking to you.

But neways, let me put it this way. Lets say you just so happen to be strolling on a casual walk in a forest. What is going to happen is that a tree is going to fall on you. But you don't know that, but the future is set for you to be smacked on the head by a tree. Being completely oblivious to this, you just stroll along and then all of a sudden the tree hits you as the future predicts it will. If you knew the path you are about to take would lead u to being hit on the head, you would probably avoid the pathway and take a different route, thus changing the future that was set. But that's impossible, there's no way that could happen. That's the difference between you knowing the future and you not knowing it but that doesn't mean the future is not set. According to common sense, no human can be 100% sure of what the future will be like.

Very well put millenium. An easier way to say it, so that everyone is apparent to the answer of the question, Is as i said earlier:(Summing it all up)



So easily put:
-Believers in the bible do not believe in pre-determined fate, it is against principles of the bible.

-Non-believers have the option to think what they want.

I hope this is the last on this darn discussion on Fate, and trying to prove god non-existant(yes, that's your goal, even if it is non-intentionally).

On The Side: Chaos, by agreeing with cheeze that meant you disbelieved in what the bible said( ).

P.S. None have answered me question yet!

Don't be offended by the question that i may ask

Why did the catholic church disobeys a rule of god in exodus 20:4
It reads like this.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth"

Why did the catholics disobey God by making statues, symbols, pictures of god and the likes.

And another one, in psalms 83:18, God has a name.
It reads like this:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."

Try reading these in your bibles, you can see these that i had posted.

Reference "The Holy Bible : King James Version"

Please reply if you can answer these terrible doings.

Oh and the anser on Mp)Ruff on page 6,

The tree symbolizes the God's supremacy and power over the people. They should obey him on anything he says. Although the tree also has knowledge and power in it.

Please, don't be offended, i'm just giving facts.

That doesn't belong here. This is "Christianity Questions" only, if you want to ask questions on Catholicism make your own topic. Your questions won't be answered. As for your pst Dark, my agreeing with Cheeze doesn't mean I don't believe in the Bible. I think you misunderstand "pre-determined fate". What Cheeze said is true, and in the Bible it says the same thing. To answer the only real question about God dust_core asked, God has many many names. Jehovah, Messiah, God, The Father, The Son, THe Spirit, Him, Savior, Holy One, etc. These are just a few. Nobody is breaking any rules by not calling Him Jehovah. Again, ask questions on Christianity or make your own topic.

Your post made no sense what so ever. If you are saying we sin when we call Him His natural names then you are a sad person. All of those names are mentioned in the Bible as proper for God. If you think otherwise I suggest revisiting the dusty Bible on your chest of droors and reading it for once. If that isn't what you meant be more clear .

Dustcore, thats exactly why so many people find many wrong things about catholicism, because they go overboard in some aspects. Like for instance, in the Bible it only asks of two particular communions: Baptism and The supper; most non catholics abide and only abide by these two practices. So does catholicism but they also add some of their own funky junk as well. So back in the old days, that's why people formed the protestant denomination because they found many faulty things about catholicism.

Damn Millenium! You beat to the punch again!
Well we'll see next time..

Dist Core, much like millenium said, God's true Name to go by is Jehovah(in hebrew is it known as Ywehah, but they're pronounced the same in common tongue).
Hence the group known as Jehovah's witnesses(which so far by my count have the most knowledge of the sets of "followers of god".)

Also the Cathlic church does do alot of things that go against the bible's teachings, which is why christianity and Cathlic exist(otherwise they would be the same). Basically government in the days of old used the bible and god to control people. They changed many meanings of the bible, and edited many of it's text to fix that which best abided their pursuings of worldly things. Christianity came from people who saw this happening and wanted to restore the good name of God and his knowledge(the bible). So one day christians seeking to know the truth pursued the most recent articles of the bible. They then translated it from the King James Version to the Old Testament(back then known as the 1st testament). Many were killed for saying the church was wrong with their bible, but eventually christianity was allowed and spread worldwide. sometime in the 1900's they refined the old testament into what is now known as the New World Translation(new testament).
And of course there are different text styles and orders of books for different religous groups but all of their bibles are identical, the only difference is how they teach what they teach. Now for your info, i think you should get a new testament.

To Indecisive: How is this not the thread for him? He asked a question, and it had everything to with christianity. Why the christians exist different from cathlics, why the cathlic church is bigger than the Christianity churches. Not to mention you didn't fullfill his knowledge of what he needed to know about the bible. Don't shut anyone out.

And once again...You ARE stating that god doesnt exist by saying you believe in pre-determined fate. If we have no free will at all, then the bible is a lie which makes much sense(or we have some translation errors). Now i could argue how fate being predetermined or not can't define if god exists or not, but i wont get into that since you asked us to stay on topic.(And yes this was your version of spam)