Staredit Network

Here's something Chill told me once:
Technically you cant prove anything. You can't prove that you yourself exist. You can't prove that the very air you're breathing exists, you can't prove that the computer right in front of you exists, you can't prove that the floor beneath your feet exists. Everything that appears before your eyes could just be an illusion; everything you hear, smell, and taste could be a hallucination. Maybe your brain is just deceiving you; maybe you're living in a dreamland or the Matrix. Isn't life just packed with enigmas?

But neways, Define what kind of "proof" you are looking for God.

If you mean by scientific evidence or something, then ok i understand, BUT if you're gonna say something like "proof as in like i want to see him visually; see him from the sky or wherever" then that's just... i have to say, stupid.
Just like this analogy i've been using in other posts. By using this logic we can say None of these "great people" from the past ever existed such as George Washington. There's no proof that he existed. Writings and letters saying that he did doesn't cut it; in order to be persuaded that he exists, you have to have seen him. But he's dead now, or was he? Maybe he was alive yesterday, maybe he's still alive today. You just never know because you've never seen him for real.

I read some of DrunkenWrestlers past posts and he mentioned much about "burden of proof." He says that the "burden of proof" is on the person making the affirmative claim, not the skeptic. So basically I think the people that are making the affirmative claims would be both the religious people AND the athiests since we both sternly claim that God either exists or doesn't exist. But the skeptics would be people like Agnostics; they really make no claim.

This made no sense....

You said you can't prove god exists either, but then this cycle of proving what cant be proved will just loop. Btw you can't just end a discussion with one statement, especially if you havnt been paying attention to the thread. But hey look at this...

1)You can disapprove god.

2)You can disaprove logic.

3)You can Believe in god

4)You can not believe in god.

You cant try and force your logic onto someone else, well you can, but it doesn't make it correct. Many Parents try and Force their ideals on through their children. And the children not knowing of both sides of a story, grow to believe in one thing. You're saying the same thing, telling us we can't prove god exists.

We have proof, The Bible, Can we prove the bible isn't fake?
Not to those who don't have faith.

Can we prove that the bible is trash and fake?
Not to those with faith.

And if you "prove it to them" all you've done is change the standpoint of someone who doesn't know of both sides. Because people usually make up their own minds during their teenage years. But people do change(especially people with weak will)

So basically people don't ever need to be told something. You can't disaprove someone's opinion since it's their standpoint. In my opinion, the entire world would be better if Teachers(I mean anyone who teaches someone else about anything).
stop telling people what's right, wrong, or injust, and just give them the factors of each situation(Luckily they do this with history).

But anyway that's just what i think...You can't TELL people what to think, you can only give em both sides(if you're fair).

umm no
gods a lie to fill the coffers of various churches

And what makes you come up with such a fallacious and unlogical assumption?
If you're gonna say God doesn't exist, at least provide a reasonable reasoning for your stance.

But good point tdnf, we can't prove that the bible is fake isnt it?

And how old are you again?*Cough(2yr old with a momma's bottle)*Cough

God a lie? Where did you get that? At least the read the bible(Forgot you can't read yet).
I can prove God is real, if you believe in the bible. If you say the bible is bullshit, then I have no proof. If I want to prove that god doesn't exist I need extremely good reasoning(which doesnt exist.)

As I said, there is no knowledge proving God does or doesn't exist if you're against optimism and ideals of others. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!(Quote from some cartoon...)

Thanks Millenium.
BTW, I loved your Aerial Combat .

It's people like you guys that CW & I love to debate with for numerous reaons.

1.)You listen to what is being said.
2.)You donj't just reject it.
3.)You know what your talking about.
4.)You CAN site your resources if need be.
5.)You never flame about what other people say, no matter how dumb or irrelevant it is....

On that note. I think this topic has burned out...

I didn't like Aerial Combat at all

And how come the bible is factual? Is there proof that the people who wrote the bible aren't lying or it's just made up?

The Answer=Personal Belief

Simple as that.

P.S. Aerial Combat Owns! It requires thinking!(*hint)

Plenty of maps require thinking, but they don't suck as much as Aerial Combat, especially gameplay wise.

So if the only reason people think the bible is true is because they believe it is, why even use it as proof, and just say I believe in god. There's no need for it as proof, if the only reason for it is because you just believe in it.

Same thing could be said about God. Where is the proof that God doesn't exist.

I've come to realize that there are two different types of arguments we're using here.

The "first" arguments would be:
Where is the proof that God exists?
Where is the proof that the people wrote true stuff in the bible?
Because these are the ones that we SENers are bringing up first.

The counter arguments would be:
Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?
Where is the proof that the people wrote bs from the bible?
And in response to the first arguments, we come up with these.


Well, i do hope you realize that this game requires much skill and thinking when you want to aim. It is much harder to aim with the tank system i used than if you just simply unload units from your dropship/shuttle. Just because it requires more skill doesn't mean it sucks. And you are the only one on battle.net that thinks of the map like this, doesnt that tell you something?

*Cough* Burden of Proof *Cough*

So no, that is not a counter point, it's simply shifting the burden of proof, which lies on you. Stop that. It makes Jesus cry.


Note: If you don't know what it is still ... [which you should know but...]

yeah ok so fine i retract the lie thingy
but god still doesnt exist
i have no problem if people who believe in god:
1]realize that they are taking a justified leap of faith, since god cannot be disproven/provemn
2] do not use pseudoscience
3] do not try to prove god logically
4]realize god is a faith/philisophical concept, not a scientific one.
what i mean by proof is something like equations or logic or physical evidence, NOT the bible, qua'ran, torah, Bhagvad-Gita, etc.

This may ruffle some feathers with people who don't like to hear other "Beliefs"...

But, let's say one-thousand years ago, 40 people who live off the land wrote their beliefs about an 8 legged, 4 eyed, pink, 20 ft. tall unicorn, that was their supreme god, and that this unicorn (thing) was the ruler, creator, etc...

And after a few hundred years some random people begin to believe that this creature that has never been seen and nothing of its fossils remain nor is there any hard evidence that iw was or was not around...

Yes, I know a 20 ft. tall pink unicorn is a little propesterous, but, it still the same concept.

So, what is there to say that the people that wrote the bible were just many creative writers that wanted to add to the many wonderful "bible" stories? Or, what if most of them were people that were tripping ona type of acid back then?
I have many people at my school that use hardcore drugs (acid, X ,Crack) and when they are on theur binge/trip. They have come to school and just began talking and making things up. Some of the tings they said sounded as if they were trying to "start" some kind of religious belief when they were high....

Oh I expect they were just writing the Bible as a form of control over primitive society. It certainly worked and still does, unfortunately.

As has been mentioned, the burden of proof lies with the Christians.

They have to provide proof of the existence of God. Non-Christians do not have to provide proof for the non-existence of God, because it just doesn't work that way. As EzDay said - you can't provide proof for the non-existence of something.

Think of a courtroom situation, if you will. The defendant is innocent until proven guilty. The whole 'Does God exist?' debate has the same principle: God is 'non-existent until proven to exist.'

I'm open to the idea of a creator, but in doing so I'm falling victim to hypocrisy.

yes god does exist, well maybe not but i like to think that he and heavan etc does so then its less scary thinking about death cuz i think i'll just be in heavan.

Did u see that post of mine i posted above?


As you see, the so called "burden of proof" is on the people making affirmative claims, which therefore would be both me AND you, since im religious making a claim god exists and you are an atheist, making a claim that god doesn't exist. We can't really claim who really has the "burden of proof" on them since we're both equally responsible for it. Now if you tell me you're agnostic, people who really make no claims and are just skeptic, then that changes everything.

And here's what you said some time ago:

You're absolutely right, it's on the person making assumptions. But guess what? What have i been seeing you say?

"God doesn't exist."

Therefore you are making a claim/assumption as well. Now again, unless you're agnostic, which you arent, that will change everything.

Claiming that something doesn't exist is not an affirmative claim.

It is a negative claim designed to challenge the integrity of the affirmative claim (e.g. God exists).

Alright, well my bad

But whether it be affirmative or negative, a claim is still a claim.

How are people so confident that god made evrey thing...

What if I said Satan made it, Just to toy with us... And watch all suffer, With all of the murdering going on...

And in the end, He is just going to break evreything he created.

You're right, Satan does have some contributions to this "creation" of our world.

He implored into us "sin." Basically he deceived Eve and therefore brought our downfall. What i mean by downfall is the ability in which we begin to sin and then live a nonpeaceful environment anymore. Wars, temper, hurt feelings, agitation, and more are what now happen because of his deceivement.

The implication is that if it wasn't for Satan; we'd all be ignorant, with no ability to tell right from wrong.

This is so typical. The reason people believe in god is because they're afraid of death. Do you think animals such as cats and dogs go to hell?


That's because god wants us to be stupid.

I saw that and almost borke into hysterics laughing.

But, on the more serious part. You are exaclty right. The little critters we have/had (extinction due to humans)... They have never had any logic about what is around us. They know what to do, but that is for survival not thinking. It is all in the animal's instinct. But, here humans are, aking everything cimplicated by making organized religion, killing people, torturing animals....

Yeah that was kind of off topic but, back on. Animals live by instinct not logic. Why wouldn't they go to heaven?

So many people believe in god because, in fact, there is a gene that leads us into a propensity to believe in a higher power.
Evolution-wise, most tribes without a uniting force (religion) would kill each other. But when people shared a uniting force (religion) they were less likely to kill each other. "Satan" is the reason. Therefore, people with more of a propensity for faith survivied, making more people have the "God gene". Personal belief has more of an effect though. Lineage does not determine ones faith stance, it influences it.
God provides happiness and security and purpose to life. And who wouldn't want that? God is a bad and good influence. There can be corruption in a faith, too much power in one faith, intolerance, etc. But God can also motivate us to do greater things such as community service, etc.

Isn't it that animals don't have souls and therefore can't go to heaven?

I agree with you Dr-Shotgun, I think god gives meaning to life, and gives people something to believe in, and teach values and stuff.