Staredit Network

Sooooo, basically anything NON-liberal is a bad thing.

Patriot Act (god I hate this topic): You are argueing and trying to stay in a theoretical world, what your argueing is valid but terrorists TAKE ADVANTAGE of people like you, theoretically the patriot act shouldn't be passed, realistically we need it. Plus almost all the topics in the act our government has been doing, just officially now every one knows about it.

Umm... just wondering... How off topic are we gonna get?

You're totally right. In fact, I'm going to start believing in female dieties and Pagan sex rituals, you know that stuff that Catholics ABHOR. Just in spite, you know?

/sarcasm


Most catholics are like islamic people, we don't follow every single part of the bible/koran, but we cherish the main ideas.

Ok you say we need the patriot act? Let me tell you what it really is, because the re-modified version of the pactriot act that the congressmen and congresswomen have passed has been printed about 2-3 hours BEFORE it was passed. NONE OF THEM READ IT.

Cops can now rob your house or office at will: Under Section 213, police can now secretly break into your home or business if they merely suspect you're involved in any criminal activity involving a computer.

Big Brother is Watching: Under Section 207(III) the Feds can now eavesdrop on your phone calls, faxes, and e-mail at will -- without any search warrant. Internet Service Providers must turn over your e-mail records and customer information upon government demand. Telephone companies also must turn over detailed phone records, including any credit-card or bank-account numbers used for payments.

Your financial privacy is being wiped out. Section 358 compels U.S. and foreign banks -- along with stockbrokers, credit-card companies, and credit-reporting agencies -- to provide detailed information about you to intelligence agencies on demand. You won't even be notified that this information has been requested.
Section 361 greatly expands the power of the IRS Financial Crimes Center (FINCEN) to collect financial information on you from "non-bank networks" (like check-cashing services and barter-systems). This infor-mation will be entered into a new federal database accessible to thousands of cops and bureaucrats, who can use the information to criminally prosecute you or seize your assets. The IRS has already forced MasterCard and American Express to turn over all records of millions of U.S. citizens who have foreign credit cards.
If you are a foreigner who owns U.S. assets, they can be seized upon the mere request of a U.S. prosecutor.
Finally, carrying $10,000 cash in or out of the US (without reporting it) is by itself now considered a federal crime. Your cash will be immediately confiscated.

Anything and everything you own can be seized without trial. Section 302 allows "forfeiture of any assets in connection with the anti-terrorist efforts of the United States." If you contribute even $1 to an organization that the President brands "terrorist," everything you own can be confiscated.
Since September 11th, over $400 million in assets has been seized, including all of the assets of the Global Relief Foundation in Bridgeview, Illinois, which raises some $5 million a year for poor Muslims. According to CBS News, FBI agents removed "furniture and fixtures as well as records." Justice Department officials say they will also go after large contributors to Global and 39 other Muslim charities.

Section 802 of the USA Patriot Act says "domestic terrorism" includes any illegal acts which are "dangerous to human life" or which are "intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population [or] to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."
This wording is so vague, that police could brand you a 'supporter of terrorism' simply for protesting an unjust law, taking part in a political demonstration where a fist-fight breaks out, or even writing an article that criticizes the War on Terror! Already, similar laws have been used to arrest protesters at anti-abortion demonstration, seize the assets of some defense attorneys, and even arrest 6-year-old children for making "terrorist threats."
Section 813 further states that such "terrorist acts" fall under RICO (the Racketeer-Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act), which allows police to confiscate everything you own based upon mere "suspicion."


OH YES WE NEED THAT!

Hey religion is flawed, like every human on thsi earth. Despite what my brother, Ihatett, and possibly some others believe.

ADDITION:
Oh yeah, I'll say it again...

The church is right the idea of being gay is wrong (For me, it's wrong, biologicly.), because if four people, two men and two women were the last survivors on earth were very strict homosexuals, the human race would die.

It's against the nature of earth, because you don't see gay lions, tigers, dogs, cattle, sheep, birds (Aside from some exceptions) fish, sandbeasts from the The Belt of Deltora books, or even humans.

Um... actually, you do see homosexual humans... as well as homosexual animals. I read this article on some guy who got a Darwin award for reasearching homosexual necrophilliac ducks.

People say that the Patriot Act is taking away liberties, but, at the risk of sounding like Chris here, it is still appropriate action taken by the government. Liberty can be taken advantage of by terrorists, and the Patriot Act--if implemented correctly --offers defenses against it.

The Patriot act only got in cause of it's god damn name. If it was called the, Giving more power to the government so they can abuse the american people years down the road act. It would've NEVER got passed. Infact, they tried multiple times to pass stuff like this before, but it was voted against. But then came 9/11, when everyone had to be come Patriotic over night. And this whole Patriotic fever swept the entire nation, and it was good thing if u ask me. Good to see our country rise up in arms, ready to kick some ass .
Then this congressman sees the Patriot act, and he doesn't even read it, cause he knows it's a patrioic thing to get back at the guys that attacked us. So he felt he didn't even know what it was about in detail. He just knew it was about fighting terrorism. If I was a senator, I would've done the same thing. It's just a job.

BTW PC - The act says that it can be used for things OTHER than terrorism. It left that part very vague. I'm sorry, but if you're gonna make an act like this, you better go into full complete detail. It has to be 100% concrete.

Thats a bit scary, seeing how much power the new patriot act grants, yet has anyone heard much publicity on it? I was completly unaware of the extent of the patriot act, even though I try to remain up-to-date.
Oh, and how did we get onto the patriot act from christianity?

I have no clue. I think I was apart of the reason, but I forgot who the main reason was. Ah hell, back to topic.

I've already put in my 2 cents. All I'll be doing now, is repeating the same old stuff.

Like I have been saying, theoretically you are right this act should not be passed, but in the world we live in today we have to have this act. Terrorists will/do take advantage of our liberties and people like you. And is you hadn't noticed at all yet that our government has already been doing these things with AND without warrents, its just now everybody knows about it.

What is awardable about spending your time with ducks that the brains out of dead ducks of the same gender?

The Patriot Act is quite scary.

The government always had the power to everything in the Patriot Act, it's just that now they can do it without having to porve you are a threat. People can be arrested and hedl without bail or trial, and can be deported without fair trial. Many, many possible innocents have been arrested unbder this act. It sickens me.

nope, they are detained, not put in jail, they are detained untill the search/discovery of what they are doing is done. If foune guility they will have a trial, if not then they are realeased. Plus, terrorists make the mob look like school children, if (in a trial) you say something against the terrorist who is in the trial. You are pretty much dead, the terrorist members of his/her group will come after you. This has been proven in the middle east.

Thats another way terrorists take advantage of us.

Chris, you don't know what the Patriot Act does.

First, it does NOT require a trial for the deportation of a non citizin.

Second, they do NOT have to release you once the search is over. Actually, they don't even have to start searching! They can keep you in custoy with no way for contact as long as they want.

I'm having this topic in debate, I'm wondering, exactly what are the arguements that FOR the patriot act?

1. Terrorists take advantage of people like you, they take advantage of our liberities and use them against us.

2. We have been doing all of the things in the patroit act, with and without warrants, its just now its official.

3. Nothing really changes now becuase of the act, nothing new.

4. If you are detained for doing something suspicious (Taking photos of building supports/bridges/important buildings) With or with out the patroit act, after 9/11 cops have been doing that anyway (detaining people).

I could prob. think of more, Im just too tired now. I hope this helps you in w.e debate your having. Could you specifically quote where it says they can deport you with out a trial/ put you in jail with out a trial in the patroit act?

I have saved on my computer the patriot act and I have been skimming through it and cannot find where it says no trial.....

I just saw on the news about a muslem cleric in California who preached for the terrorists and commited acts of support for terrorists (raising money etc..) He was detained, had a trial, found guilty, was offered to leave the country OR sit in Jail for X number of years. He decided to leave the country at the last minute and return to Pakistan (or w/e country in the middle east).

If you were born in the US can they deport you? No right?

It says "non-citzen".

I geuss that means if you haven't lived here for 7 years then they have the option to kick-u-out.....

Are they allowed to detain someone for having the first name "Mohammed" ?
My brother was searched for bombs, simply because his first name was Mohammed.

And...

1. So is that a reason to limit OUR freedoms and liberties, to protect them? Let me get this straight, we are taking away our own freedoms and liberties to protect our freedoms and liberties? What the ? How do we protect liberties we no longer have?

2. That's pure corruption. Now its even purer corruption.

3. Yes, everything changes because of the act. The news, headlines on newspapers, fear of being detained if you believe in the islamic religion...

4. What if i'm a tourist in Washington taking pictures of the White House?


And sure, it dont say blam about there being no trial in the Patriot Act. They'll give em a trial, sure. After three years being held without charges <<< (That happened to someone).

If your talking about the airports, my brother and my dad get searched all the time...right before we get on the plane even And their names are both Clayton Packard I even get searched (taken asside)
dude, every one gets searched, don't say its discriminatory....

1. Taken away? Please tell me all these freedoms that are taken away, its pretty much freedom of privacy (its always been a sketchy topic), and right to a fair trial.

2. Corruption yes, but still its always been that way.

3. mmmmm, thats full out a lie, theres no fear of being islamic becuase of the patriot act, all the islamic families at my school are proud and we praise them for it, maybe your family is afraid -- but you shouldn't be. And the media does what ever the hell it wants, remember time magezine? It posted false accounts of how we flushed the Koran down toilets at Git Mo, which caused riots in the middle east and many deaths. Now I do know there were koran abuses, but no flushing down the toilet.

4. Taking photos of the white house becuase your a tourist is one thing, but taking photos of every single angle of the building + fences + gaurd houses + etc.. is another. I don't know if you have been to the white house before, but I have, the area around the white house is like a freaken fortress with suprise barrier traps that pop out of the road ways to block traffic and many, MANY cameras every where. Trust me, they can spot a person/persons who have been taking WAY too many photos that have no practical reason to be taken.

Chris....are you STILL supporting the patriot act?


.................wow.
Grow some cojones and stop acting stubburn. You've been a little less stubburn lately though, I give you that. So then again never mind. I don't want to rush you.

Well, more and more I feel we can do with out it, but I also see why we need it and I feel, at the moment, every one can just deal with it until our little terrorist problem decreases.

terrorism will never decrease. As long as, as alpha said, people have freedom, there will always be someone whose views are different then our own and wish to stop us.