Report, edit, etc...Posted by Freedawk on 2006-03-24 at 10:49:33
God didn't create Evil...We created the Evil...Adam and Eve created the Free Will we have, and we chose to be bad.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-24 at 11:43:30
No. Free-will was given to man and women by God.
As humans, we created every emotion, opinion and choice that humans have.
That is why Evil is just a perception. Because people see evil as differences.
For example: Most people on here view me as evil, while some don't. I am not evil in my eyes, because I have not killed anyone.
Can you see yet? Evil is just human perception (People's views of things) just like every other thing on this blasted planet.
As humans, we created every emotion, opinion and choice that humans have.
That is why Evil is just a perception. Because people see evil as differences.
For example: Most people on here view me as evil, while some don't. I am not evil in my eyes, because I have not killed anyone.
Can you see yet? Evil is just human perception (People's views of things) just like every other thing on this blasted planet.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mune'R0x on 2006-03-24 at 11:46:59
Kellimus is an evil person because he was banned before. I was an evil SENer when I got suspended for 21 days. Breaking the rules makes you evil. God didn't create that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-03-24 at 16:19:40
QUOTE(donwano @ Mar 24 2006, 11:46 AM)
[right]Kellimus is an evil person because he was banned before. I was an evil SENer when I got suspended for 21 days. Breaking the rules makes you evil. God didn't create that.[/right]
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Quit flaming Kellimus and get to the point.
Kellimus, I think you are wrong. Humans are born with certain emotions and thoughts. They can't change that. Most evil people are born to be evil and wicked.
The question was if god created evilness amongst us.
I will have to repeat my old post...
Suppose god exists. He is omniscient (knows all) and is the creator of man- and womankind. Because he is perfect god, he created evilness among people so taht it can be spread. Yes sure the term is created, but, evilness among people is how people act to certain things.
Lets go along with your hypothesis that humans created evilness. Humans, if god exists, are created by god. If god created humans knowing that humans will create evilness, didn't he indirectly create evilness?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zombie on 2006-03-24 at 16:27:27
QUOTE(DeadlyInnocence @ Mar 24 2006, 02:19 PM)
Quit flaming Kellimus and get to the point.
Kellimus, I think you are wrong. Humans are born with certain emotions and thoughts. They can't change that. Most evil people are born to be evil and wicked.
The question was if god created evilness amongst us.
I will have to repeat my old post...
Suppose god exists. He is omniscient (knows all) and is the creator of man- and womankind. Because he is perfect god, he created evilness among people so taht it can be spread. Yes sure the term is created, but, evilness among people is how people act to certain things.
Lets go along with your hypothesis that humans created evilness. Humans, if god exists, are created by god. If god created humans knowing that humans will create evilness, didn't he indirectly create evilness?
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Kellimus, I think you are wrong. Humans are born with certain emotions and thoughts. They can't change that. Most evil people are born to be evil and wicked.
The question was if god created evilness amongst us.
I will have to repeat my old post...
Suppose god exists. He is omniscient (knows all) and is the creator of man- and womankind. Because he is perfect god, he created evilness among people so taht it can be spread. Yes sure the term is created, but, evilness among people is how people act to certain things.
Lets go along with your hypothesis that humans created evilness. Humans, if god exists, are created by god. If god created humans knowing that humans will create evilness, didn't he indirectly create evilness?
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First of, no one is flaming here, they are arguing. There is a difference. Also, people aren’t just naturally born with evilness; I mean seriously, you gain these things. Just like learning to walk or speak. God did create evil its true, and one fact proves it. God created man right? Man some how made gained evil. So in a way god created evil. But that’s following my idea. I do believe there is a god, but sometimes I don’t think there is one. When my grandfather died, I was hoping he got sent to heaven, mainly because my grandfather was a good man. (Yes he was a German soldier back in ww2) But sometimes I don’t believe inn him, but that’s beside the point. The point is that if god does exist and the devil doesn’t, then god created evil if god does exist and so does the devil, well god still created evil. If god DOESN’T exist, then well… Man most of created evil in his own image. But that’s my opinion.
Hear is a quote I think is true.
"the biggest trick that devil ever played was he made world believe that he doesn't exist".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-24 at 23:36:16
QUOTE(Zombie @ Mar 24 2006, 04:27 PM)
"the biggest trick that devil ever played was he made world believe that he doesn't exist".
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Good quote, but I know a better one. Covers more ground:
"The biggest trick the devil ever did, was convince the world he's god."
This is not a complicated topic. It's really simple:
God is either deniable or undeniable. That's it. You can easily make out the rest on your own. I'm pretty sure this topic has been nailed several times, but people just don't notice them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-24 at 23:50:19
QUOTE(DeadlyInnocence @ Mar 24 2006, 02:19 PM)
Quit flaming Kellimus and get to the point.
Kellimus, I think you are wrong. Humans are born with certain emotions and thoughts. They can't change that. Most evil people are born to be evil and wicked.
The question was if god created evilness amongst us.
I will have to repeat my old post...
Suppose god exists. He is omniscient (knows all) and is the creator of man- and womankind. Because he is perfect god, he created evilness among people so taht it can be spread. Yes sure the term is created, but, evilness among people is how people act to certain things.
Lets go along with your hypothesis that humans created evilness. Humans, if god exists, are created by god. If god created humans knowing that humans will create evilness, didn't he indirectly create evilness?
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Kellimus, I think you are wrong. Humans are born with certain emotions and thoughts. They can't change that. Most evil people are born to be evil and wicked.
The question was if god created evilness amongst us.
I will have to repeat my old post...
Suppose god exists. He is omniscient (knows all) and is the creator of man- and womankind. Because he is perfect god, he created evilness among people so taht it can be spread. Yes sure the term is created, but, evilness among people is how people act to certain things.
Lets go along with your hypothesis that humans created evilness. Humans, if god exists, are created by god. If god created humans knowing that humans will create evilness, didn't he indirectly create evilness?
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Hehe.. Chil. Don is my sex fiend. There was no flame there.
Was Hitler automatically evil? No. His parents treated him like shiz. Then he came across Karl Marx's views on the world, and he wrote Mein Kampf. He wasn't evil to begin with.
Was Charles Manson intentionally evil? No. His environment made him like that.
Was Jeffery Domer evil to begin with? No. He was mentally scared as a child, which made him what he was.
Everything is caused by your environment. No one is naturally born "evil".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-25 at 00:05:45
Ya, cause good and evil didn't exist at a time. Someone or something makes up the definitions. Which are still very grey in most areas.
Now, they could've been born with a trait that could be considered evil to someone. A person's behavior is not 100% based on the environment. Me and a monkey share 98% of the same dna, but if I was raised just like a monkey, I wouldn't scratch my ass and fling poo at people.
Unless I got a really bad itch and they're laughing at me for scratching. Then it's poo time. Screw you ms.teacher biznatch, your kids were asking for it.
Ah hell. The more I think about it, the more I would fling poo all the time. Even for no apparent reason. Like now. AFK
I reread what kellimus quoted, and I see what he's saying. Deadly, you've been making this more complicated than it is. Read my last post.
Now, they could've been born with a trait that could be considered evil to someone. A person's behavior is not 100% based on the environment. Me and a monkey share 98% of the same dna, but if I was raised just like a monkey, I wouldn't scratch my ass and fling poo at people.
Unless I got a really bad itch and they're laughing at me for scratching. Then it's poo time. Screw you ms.teacher biznatch, your kids were asking for it.
Ah hell. The more I think about it, the more I would fling poo all the time. Even for no apparent reason. Like now. AFK
I reread what kellimus quoted, and I see what he's saying. Deadly, you've been making this more complicated than it is. Read my last post.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-25 at 00:11:13
ROFFLE!
Finally, someone agrees with me.
Finally, someone agrees with me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-03-25 at 12:56:30
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Mar 25 2006, 08:10 AM)
ROFFLE!
Finally, someone agrees with me.
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Finally, someone agrees with me.
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kellimus, if someone doesent agree with you, it doesent mean they're ignoring you.
if not God, then mankind created evil. right ? (who else could it be). but how can man create something if "he can't even change the colour of his own hair" (if i'm not mistaken, it's a phrase from the Bibel).
i think it's a good example to show that man doesen't controll much, atleast for now. how can you create something if you cant controll anything ? to cut a wooden plank in 2 parts you must wield a saw.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-25 at 16:45:14
Why is it with every reply you do to me, you always put words in my mouth? Again, I never said anything like that.
Do you understand what the word perception means? Perception is another way to say view. People's views on things. And there is a difference between create, and concoct.
Create: Make with from scratch with raw materials.
Concoct: Think up something with brain power.
I will use Golden-Fist for this example: He believes me to be an arrogent stupid doo doo head. To other people, I am not this.
So his perception, is that I am an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Other peoples perceptions, are that I am not an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Do you see it yet? It's all based on opinions, and views (Perceptions) of the individual; Thus, evil was not created by God because evil is a perception (view) created by man.
You're right. In order to cut a wooden plank into to parts, you must wield a saw. But who created that saw? Man. And what does man control?
His emotions. His will. His actions.
We control a lot of things.
Do you understand what the word perception means? Perception is another way to say view. People's views on things. And there is a difference between create, and concoct.
Create: Make with from scratch with raw materials.
Concoct: Think up something with brain power.
I will use Golden-Fist for this example: He believes me to be an arrogent stupid doo doo head. To other people, I am not this.
So his perception, is that I am an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Other peoples perceptions, are that I am not an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Do you see it yet? It's all based on opinions, and views (Perceptions) of the individual; Thus, evil was not created by God because evil is a perception (view) created by man.
You're right. In order to cut a wooden plank into to parts, you must wield a saw. But who created that saw? Man. And what does man control?
His emotions. His will. His actions.
We control a lot of things.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-03-26 at 10:42:12
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Mar 24 2006, 07:20 AM)
Do you guys ignore?
It's all perception.
This is pointless... -_-
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It's all perception.
This is pointless... -_-
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i think you said this ^
ADDITION:
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Mar 26 2006, 12:44 AM)
Why is it with every reply you do to me, you always put words in my mouth? Again, I never said anything like that.
Do you understand what the word perception means? Perception is another way to say view. People's views on things. And there is a difference between create, and concoct.
Create: Make with from scratch with raw materials.
Concoct: Think up something with brain power.
I will use Golden-Fist for this example: He believes me to be an arrogent stupid doo doo head. To other people, I am not this.
So his perception, is that I am an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Other peoples perceptions, are that I am not an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Do you see it yet? It's all based on opinions, and views (Perceptions) of the individual; Thus, evil was not created by God because evil is a perception (view) created by man.
You're right. In order to cut a wooden plank into to parts, you must wield a saw. But who created that saw? Man. And what does man control?
His emotions. His will. His actions.
We control a lot of things.
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Do you understand what the word perception means? Perception is another way to say view. People's views on things. And there is a difference between create, and concoct.
Create: Make with from scratch with raw materials.
Concoct: Think up something with brain power.
I will use Golden-Fist for this example: He believes me to be an arrogent stupid doo doo head. To other people, I am not this.
So his perception, is that I am an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Other peoples perceptions, are that I am not an arrogent stupid doo doo head.
Do you see it yet? It's all based on opinions, and views (Perceptions) of the individual; Thus, evil was not created by God because evil is a perception (view) created by man.
You're right. In order to cut a wooden plank into to parts, you must wield a saw. But who created that saw? Man. And what does man control?
His emotions. His will. His actions.
We control a lot of things.
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yes, preception is a point of view, but some thing are obvious i think. you can have a point of view on a person, on an action, but not on an emotion. if you're in love you will understand this feeling ONLY like LOVE, not in any other way. if you hate someone, you cant understand this emotion as love, or any anything else.
i think in general if you ask a lot of people how do they understand such thing like EVIL, they will all explain this thing allmost the same.
so taht's why i think it's not a perception
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-26 at 11:05:28
You've been looking at this in an abstract way. To fully understand this, you have to look at it in a concrete way. Because everything is, if you break it all the way down, concrete. Abstract is just a short cut that we use to explain things easier.
You said emotions are not actions when infact they are. Emotions are simply reactions to stimulates. When your body reacts a general type of way to a general type of stimulate, we call that "love" or "hate" or "fear" etc. Even if you believe in souls and stuff like that, this still comes into play.
You said emotions are not actions when infact they are. Emotions are simply reactions to stimulates. When your body reacts a general type of way to a general type of stimulate, we call that "love" or "hate" or "fear" etc. Even if you believe in souls and stuff like that, this still comes into play.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-03-26 at 12:06:44
QUOTE(Loser_Musician @ Mar 26 2006, 07:05 PM)
You've been looking at this in an abstract way. To fully understand this, you have to look at it in a concrete way. Because everything is, if you break it all the way down, concrete. Abstract is just a short cut that we use to explain things easier.
You said emotions are not actions when infact they are. Emotions are simply reactions to stimulates. When your body reacts a general type of way to a general type of stimulate, we call that "love" or "hate" or "fear" etc. Even if you believe in souls and stuff like that, this still comes into play.
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You said emotions are not actions when infact they are. Emotions are simply reactions to stimulates. When your body reacts a general type of way to a general type of stimulate, we call that "love" or "hate" or "fear" etc. Even if you believe in souls and stuff like that, this still comes into play.
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yes, i agree that emotions are psychological reactions to something. but i was talking about actions like picking up a pen from your table. yes, ofcourse if you are very angry you will pick that pen up in a different way, but still, emotions can be only the cawse of actions by my point of view.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-26 at 13:25:35
Even if we find out wether or not evil is perceptional, it still doesn't answer the question to this thread. Sorry for going in a diff direction. I'll now tackle the heart of this thread.
Here are the possiblities. I figured people would be able to peice em together themselves, but I'll just do it for them. *sigh* I'll use simple conditions for it.
The first one is pretty much obvious.
This is the other obvious one. Basically the complete opposite as the first one.
This is untrue, because we have "evil" in the world. So we know this is not a possibility.
This can be that evil was unintentional. That God really wants to get rid of the devil. That the devil WASN'T apart of it's initial divine plan.
Those are the 4 basic outcomes, only 3 of them are possible. If you believe God is omnipotent, then God DID create evil. If you believe he's NOT omnipotent, then man or man+help from god/devil, created evil. That's it.
Here are the possiblities. I figured people would be able to peice em together themselves, but I'll just do it for them. *sigh* I'll use simple conditions for it.
| Trigger |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ God is omnipotent |
| ¤ God wants to create evil |
| Actions: |
| ¤ God creates evil |
The first one is pretty much obvious.
| Trigger |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ God is NOT omnipotent |
| ¤ God does NOT want to create evil |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Man or at least something else creates evil |
This is the other obvious one. Basically the complete opposite as the first one.
| Trigger |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ God is omnipotent |
| ¤ God does NOT want to create evil |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Evil is not created |
This is untrue, because we have "evil" in the world. So we know this is not a possibility.
| Trigger |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ God is NOT omnipotent |
| ¤ God does want to create evil |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Man or at least something else creates evil |
This can be that evil was unintentional. That God really wants to get rid of the devil. That the devil WASN'T apart of it's initial divine plan.
Those are the 4 basic outcomes, only 3 of them are possible. If you believe God is omnipotent, then God DID create evil. If you believe he's NOT omnipotent, then man or man+help from god/devil, created evil. That's it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-26 at 20:17:11
I believe in God, but I do not believe he created evil.
Because it's all a perception!
I am evil because I got banned (Perception)
IP is not evil because he is Admin (Perception)
I am not evil because I got banned (Another perception)
IP is evil because he is an Admin (Another perception)
Everything in the world is Psychological, and perceptions are also Psychological; Thus, evil is a psychological perception of the human mind, and was not created by god.
Because it's all a perception!
I am evil because I got banned (Perception)
IP is not evil because he is Admin (Perception)
I am not evil because I got banned (Another perception)
IP is evil because he is an Admin (Another perception)
Everything in the world is Psychological, and perceptions are also Psychological; Thus, evil is a psychological perception of the human mind, and was not created by god.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zwitch on 2006-03-26 at 21:01:16
This topic would be better if it was "Did God Create Sin?"
If one's view of 'evil' is anything sinful then yes, evil can be defined to a set of things, which have been defined in the Bible. Sin, however, is not created by God, that's between Man and the Devil.
Evil by itself as we know today is like what Kellimus said, just a perception. In this case God creates what people may view as evil, even though it may not be to someone else.
If one's view of 'evil' is anything sinful then yes, evil can be defined to a set of things, which have been defined in the Bible. Sin, however, is not created by God, that's between Man and the Devil.
Evil by itself as we know today is like what Kellimus said, just a perception. In this case God creates what people may view as evil, even though it may not be to someone else.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-03-26 at 22:04:05
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Mar 24 2006, 11:43 AM)
No. Free-will was given to man and women by God.
As humans, we created every emotion, opinion and choice that humans have.
That is why Evil is just a perception. Because people see evil as differences.
For example: Most people on here view me as evil, while some don't. I am not evil in my eyes, because I have not killed anyone.
Can you see yet? Evil is just human perception (People's views of things) just like every other thing on this blasted planet.
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As humans, we created every emotion, opinion and choice that humans have.
That is why Evil is just a perception. Because people see evil as differences.
For example: Most people on here view me as evil, while some don't. I am not evil in my eyes, because I have not killed anyone.
Can you see yet? Evil is just human perception (People's views of things) just like every other thing on this blasted planet.
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Kelly summed this topic up, if you believed that God created the Earth then by definition he had to ahev created evil. People make evil from their belief that things are evil, if there was no free will people couldn't believe, we'd all just "know" and God didn't want that, hence their is so called evil in the world.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Eskimo Bob on 2006-04-04 at 01:37:23
God didnt create evil, santan did, technicly, he disobeyed god and became "evil".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-04-04 at 17:49:34
Have you not read what has been said, Toa?
Evil is a perception of the human mind. Evil was created by US.
Is Satan evil to Satanists? No.
Is Jeffery Domer evil to other Serial Killers? No.
It's all PERCEPTION.
Don't any of you get it?!
Evil is a perception of the human mind. Evil was created by US.
Is Satan evil to Satanists? No.
Is Jeffery Domer evil to other Serial Killers? No.
It's all PERCEPTION.
Don't any of you get it?!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by AK47 on 2006-04-04 at 18:16:05
QUOTE(Toa5555 @ Apr 4 2006, 12:37 AM)
God didnt create evil, santan did, technicly, he disobeyed god and became "evil".
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Well, what happens to the people that Satan possesses with his magic powers? Are they evil? Or are all the other not possessed people evil to him? Like I have said before and what Kellimus says, evil isn't created, it's a farking perception.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by thecheesemaster on 2006-04-04 at 21:27:41
well if the universe was created by god stuff happend and then poof its just there... 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by AK47 on 2006-04-04 at 21:35:39
But the proof of that happening isn't there.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zombie on 2006-04-05 at 05:09:04
Here is a question for you. Who created god?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-04-05 at 10:59:15
QUOTE(Zombie @ Apr 5 2006, 12:08 PM)
Here is a question for you. Who created god?
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there are 2 replys to your question:
A-if you belive in God, then he was there all along
B-if you dont belive in God, then humans created him