Staredit Network

Cheeze, your making some very negative justifications based on your disbelief of god. You're trying to convinve contradiction in the claims of belief in god, which is a common problem in the world(before you try and turn this against me, it works both ways, trying to prove god does, or doesn't exist).. As I said before...

What's the point of forcing your logical(or illogical) belief on others. People should know through simple Natural Human rights, that justification has limits. The reason i say this is...

The world would be better if everyone just layed out the knowledge of each side without their opinion of right or wrong. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.


First of all, you keep saying some things are so typical, did you know I.Q.'s of 80-90 are typical between americans? But does that mean all Americans have I.Q.'s of under 90? Nope. Infact 60% of Americans have an I.Q. of over 98(thank god,..).
So just because you hear people are scared of dying doesnt make it the most typical thing about god. And if people do want to believe in god because they're scared of death is that so bad? So an Old man is going to die and he knows it, he turns to some sort of form of life giving justice. He wants to find a way to live. That's what the Bible is there for, for those who believe in it and have faith, to be reassurred of a second chance at living. Whether you believe it or not the standpoints are like this...

If you don't believe in God, for whatever reason, it's doubtful you want to listen to reason from regular believers, because you feel you know why they are there, and look at it as someone allowing themself to be sucked up by an age old scandal.

If you do believe in god, something in your life has convinced your standpoint that the bible(whichever one you study) is real and it must exist. And something has proven this to you. So now if someone disbelieving god comes to you to say to you, you believe in god for this and that your only defence is your faith. Faith in the bible, faith in god, and faith in history. This other person will usually say this is fake, and you're just being manipulated, because their faith lies against the idea of god.

And these two kinds of people can almost never be reasoned with, for they are too faithful, or disfaithful. That is why Agnostics are so nice .

I also think anyone should really learn to see things from dual-standpoints, not to find the radical or ridiculous claims in the other side, but to actually learn about it and see it the right way. But hey, I'm just a kid, people don't listen to me .

Damn most of ppl here (who are kids), are more intelligent then most adults i meet.

The sad part is. 90% of the people on this site are 3-4 times smarter than most of the seniors at my school. I'll tell you, when I was 13 I had no idea things like this where going on. 6 months ago, I was still oblivious. The funny & sad part about it. Because of SEN my views on things change DRASTICALLY and I now look at things with a different view and I don't just "block" out the other person's story.

That's do to the fact that some adults in certain places of the world, didn't grow up with many choices and options, but that's the world... go figure. Most of the people here by the way, are not average(as you can tell). Most of our age group is out rotting away their body and brains on useless things and time. The people posting here know what they are talking about. If you don't believe that we are a small group of intelligents, just look at the staredit.net statistics. All those members and only about a maximum of 40 ever post relevant or intriguing information(in one thread).

Sometimes it's sad.

I think adults have already made up their minds, and are stubborn, brainwashed, and closeminded

Whoa there, shall I go back to my question that still, no one can answer?

Define good and bad in such a way so that it is not based on opinion.

If you can do this, then I'll follow what's good. (Even God!)


Yeah, I found that out by experience. Did you know anything below 90 is considered dumb?


Yeah, what about the other 40%?

Where are you getting these numbers anyway?


Actually, the reason many people believe in god is because they're scared of death, which brings me to my next point...


Which means, you want to be greedy and live forever. I thought being greedy was bad?

Why do you want to live so badly?

If you're going to ask me this question, this is my response:
I don't want to live badly.
I live because I am alive.
My goal in life is to learn.
When my time is up, then I will die.
By that time, I hope the knowledge I have gained will still be around for others to learn.


That's because they never had the time to change when they were young. Unfortuntalty, it's still true today. So many kids are being brainwashed into things such as religion through force, not choice.

Example: Parents not allowing kids reading certain books (good books, not the ones that kids shouldn't be reading anyway).

Yea, I think that those adults haven't had the chance to explore everything and see all kinds of different beliefs and ideas.

Me? I'm in the middle, we might have been made by something, but have any of you ever heard or felt a "sign"? I haven't, so i'm quite unsure...


EDIT: Some people said in this forum the bible could be fake, there is proof of all the places it says in yes, but is there any actual proof that there was a god or jesus? Maybe people back then were like us, wanting to be funny and have practical jokes, and created the bible based on what was around them in the world, therefore making generations after generations becoming less humanistic until the rennaisance.

Well, we can say the same thing to just about, anything. Was there actual proof of George Washington? Was there actual proof of Socrates, Aristotle, shakespear, etc? Now if you say "just because the bible says god exists doesn't quite neccesarily mean it's true" then you could say just the same thing to just about those; just cuz books and letters say they exist dont mean squat. Maybe the people who "invented" them were just like us today

Well put Army, and it is true. Many people say the Bible isn't factual because it is JUST a "book" made by people. Well, historical documents are the same thing. If one isn't true then the other isn't true either. So if you say Christians can't use the Bible as factual then other people can't use these so-called "facts" all these genius scientists have made up.

Quick off-topic comment: In a recent "debate"(if you even call it that) a certain somebody(TheoreticalHuman) was proven wrong many times, and contradicted himself many times as well. These lines were spoken.



and



I have seen this tactic used amny times in debates. I thought atheists and "logical debaters" accepted otehr people's opinions to better themselves? If this isn't true somebody give me the big news.

I apologize for that Indecisive, it was anger fueled and out of line. I'm right your wrong wasn't stated seriously, but no matter. The argument was a waste of time, since neither of us can over come each other, both so very consumed in our own opinions. However, you constantly want to say all science is wrong. Then throw out that computer, science resarched the technology, science made it, it isn't real. It doesn't actually work, it's all nonsense. By the way, now you're saying I contradict myself? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Ya, that is true, but you left something out. Socrates, Aristotle, shakesspear, etc. are recorded as normal humans. Not super human beings or anything. Things that defy almost all science. Wether a normal person existed or not is one thing, but wether that person was the son of god, that's another. So, your point is just pointing out historical fact is not real facts, yet you still use quotes from a book written thousands of years ago. I don't know, but they got a H word for that, I kinda forgot it though. Damn.

yes that is true. you see, the bible tells of things so incredible, they must have more proof. the more incredible the claim, the more incredible the proof must be.

Also, I'm sure that there is more proof of things such as george washington, shakespeare, socrates, and aristotle, other than just one book.

I also agree with Alpha, those people were just normal people. Sure they contributed to society, but a thing such as proving if god exists or not, changes the whole world and how people view life. Surely you need more proof than just one book.

Surely, 'the more credible the proof must be.'

I suppose MA and co. have a point when they say that all history could be made up, but we can usually tell if something happened in the past, because we have contemporary sources from a variety of differently opinioned people and/or we can see the effects of the event now.

We know that the First and Second World Wars happened, for example: We have written, photographical, audio and video evidence. We also feel the effects of the wars: Britain was bankrupted and lost her empire; the USA became the world's dominant superpower etc.

As for the Bible, we can probably deduce from it that Jesus existed, as we have sources from the Roman administration, but other claims like the fact that he walked on water, are thrown into doubt because we only have a biased collection of sources (the Gospels).

indecisiveman, if you could get your facts straight before you decide to make yourself sound like a child. Look, when you are going to make biased opinions make sure you have something to show for it. From what I understood out of your rambling, I notcied you said "since we call the bible fake, all history books are fake"... If you realize, we have PROOF of all of these events... Just go visit some of the areas that are still recuperating from the damage. I am not going to say anything else to you because you just don't listen, you cannot debate, and all of your arguments are equivelant to 2 year old.

A little advice, get your information straight and make sure you have a viable argument before you demoralise yourself.


This is exaclty how I feel about most topics. Just because people are so oblivious to what is going on. They will never ask questions, never "step" out of line, never listen... Most of these people are the most stubborn people I have ever seen...



Exaclty my point. There are many sources and different kinds of evidence that prove that these people were here and have accomplished everything they have.


LOL... This proof better be served like a 300 ft. tall ice cream cone for me to belive a single word of it. (And that ice cream will have J-Lo laying on top of that ice cream waiting for me with 1,000,000 in her hands) Yea, likely that would happen.


Also, there were many other wars that took place that have a great effect upon everything.
1.) American Revolution
We would still be part of Great Britain if we did not have this War.
2.) Vietnam
Nothing good came out of this, but it happened.
3.) Desert Storm
I have no idea what this War was about, but again there is proof.
4.) Iraqi Liberation (Yeah ok)
Currently Happening
5.)Civil War
We all know the horrible things that would still be happening if we didn't do anything.
--Slavery

It really doesn't matter how many eclectic sources there are to prove something's existence. Pretty much, most of them just say that this person exists. Now you're right, thing's like WWI or WWII where you have photos of them are visual proofs. However, things from a long time ago dont have cameras back then so the only "proof" people had were books.

Now Yes Jesus may have existed, but the question about his existence is different from the question about his miracles/teachings. He may have existed, but the part about his teachings/miracles are the main controversies. Jesus might've been the real son of God; he could've just been some ordinary guy with eloquent teachings. What i've been hearing from most of you is everyone saying that he didn't exist, period. Now the part about whether he was a lthe true son, a liar, or a lunatic is up to one to determine.

You could've summed most of that all up with just, "yes I agree with you", but you seem to have your head up your ass, and didn't read what we said, and then just said what we already said basically.

BTW: It DOES matter how many differnet eclectic sources you have. And also, you said "Most of us" meaning everyone not agreeing with you a whole lot on this matter, that we said Jesus didn't exist period. Now, I'm going to assume maybe, there are 20 people against u right now? Not sure, might be more might be less. Now, get at least 10-15 quotes from people saying on this forum that "Jesus never existed period." Go ahead, I challenge you.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is disputing Jesus' existence. We have so many sources describing him and his actions that it is very probable that he existed.

As for the more debatable aspects of the Jesus issue - it is interesting that out of something like 20 gospels - only 4 of them claim that Jesus was the Son of God. It is even more interesting that it is these 4 gospels that have survived and have never been persecuted by the Church.

As Captain Will has said, Jesus we know exists because we have multiple sources with differing biases. The miracles of Jesus/his divinity exist in a single source with a singular bias that supports the claim.
We know that Washington, Socrates, Jesus existed but we can say that the Bible is invalid because of this combination of the principle stated above, an what i call the Carl Sagan rule

Actualy, it should say "better the evidence must be."
Proof is absolute, irrefutable evidence that shows that something is true, no question about it.
As is understood from the "What is Real" topic, it's, as far as we know, impossible to be absolutely sure of anything.
And:
"If it exists, it can be proven.
If it doesn't exist, it can't be proven.
If it exists, it can't be disproven.
If it doesn't exist, it can't be disproven."

I'm gonna go find something I said in another Christianity topic.

Basically i came in late and didnt get to say all this stuff the way i wanted to .
But, for the most part to make since of things that were already said....
There is substantial proof for a large criteria of events that happened in "the bible". So if you're looking for proof among other histories, there is plenty. There are many artifacts of people who met Paul(an apostle), and not just any people, KINGS! Kings heard of in Jewish history, chinese history, as well as many Arabian histories. There are accounts of people meeting Jesus, but it would be so old no one disbelieving the idea of Jesus would care, and they are not interviews either. But people like Peter, Paul, and John were questioned, held for treason, and beheaded. These are facts in many advanced texts, few of which are publicized in american schools, or average libraries. Notice that you couldn't tell a man from Jerusalem that Jesus did not exist, not because he's a devout believer since birth, but because the ruins of the torture stake where Jesus was killed can be identified by them!(in some city, i dont know if it was jerusalem ). There is substantial proof of many acts of Jesus and his followers, but no 100% proof of his abilities, or proof that he is god's son. You can't prove it since it couldn't be recorded so easily. Sure there are stories like shadrack and what not, but those have been so altered it is disgusting. And it's naturally hard for us to believe unatural phenomenon. So as i have said before...

-Everything depends on your stand point, and your faith(belief) in what it is you believe. Nothing else matters about it.

People can only argue about what events or styles of growing effected this person's faith. That is the best truth anyone can give anyone.

Ouch!
Maybe my head is stuck up my ass as well because after summing up over half the posts in the thread, you get the same impression that people are trying to prove the nonexistance of god, or jesus. Maybe i jst restated the already said as well, or maybe we all just had different inferences? Maybe you got EVERYONE was saying that you can't prove jesus has magical powers, and we got the feeling that people were trying to prove Jesus never existed. But guess what...

-Everything depends on your stand point, and your faith(belief) in what it is you believe. Nothing else matters about it.


And that's the Jist of it.(Doesn't Jist sound like Jizz! ).

Was that directed to me or millenium? Cause you got me quoted, and I'm a bit confused. Sorry for sounding like a dumbass.

Calm down, i'm not trying to be aggressive or anything.

Ok i was wrong, i probably didn't hear anyone say directly that he didn't exist (in other threads i have but not in this particular one). But dont try and make such a big fuss about it.



If that was about your post i just responded to, then it's cool. If not...

This is seriously the 1st time I can recall you admiting that you're wrong. (Takes more balls to say you're wrong, than it is to say you're right) You've now moved up 1 point in my book.