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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> The End
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-09-08 at 20:12:39
QUOTE(Zb2k @ Sep 8 2005, 06:07 PM)
If anyone watches Penn & Teller BS you'll know they proved why that happened. A bunch of people involved in car accidents said they saw a tunnel and at the end there was a light. Then they took a few people and put them in those pods where you get spun around a room very very fast, and they let them stay in the pod until they passed out, and all three of them said they saw the same vision. So when someone claims to see that "tunnel and light" it's actually just a reaction when someone moves at very fast speeds, it has nothing to do with Heaven or entering some kind of after life enviroment.
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I read something about the "light" being the brain cell "sparking". There was a better term for it but I don't remember exactly.

QUOTE
But at this time, its ridiculous to suppose things exist for no reason,

I think I exist for no reason. More accuratly put, I don't know the real reason why I exist; I've made my own reason though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2005-09-08 at 20:20:35

Ok then shotgun. I say you don't exist, since you can't mathematically prove a point to you being here.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-09-09 at 08:05:12
How would you see a brain cell sparking it your own brain? Roll you eyeballs backwards?

Anyhow, I beleive soulds exist. I understand your Athiest thinking, Shotgun, and I understand how you have come to these conclusions. I respect that these are your beleifs, but I merely wish to point out the following:

When any given body dies, with the exception of some that die at older ages, there is still an extremly large amount of energy flowing through them. Kenetic, chemical, electrical, thermal, it's all there. Say a very healthy person is shot through the braincase, instantly dying, in the middle of a jog. It is known in the science world that energy must be transfered from any given spot to another, and yet when somebody dies, what becomes of all that energy? There ought to be an explosion or discharge of some sort, but there isn't. My theory is it transfered into a soul, or something similar, that we cannot yet detect.

When we didn't know about nuclear energy and the like, didn't mean nuclear radiation wasn't there. People still died from Uranium exposure before they knew it was useful for anything, or deadly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-09 at 18:56:48
I'm not saying there needs to be a reason for things to exist. I'm saying, to suppose that hidden energies and fields exist to support a possibility that is not mathematically, experimentally, or logically superior is incorrect.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-09-09 at 18:58:48
Shapechanger, simply because you're dead doesn't mean your cells are dead.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-09 at 19:04:22
Not just that, your kinetic and bioelectric energy dissipates.

CheeZe, can you clarify that? I was under the impression that your cells died off after your death from lack of nutrients.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2005-09-09 at 21:42:07


Theory of special relativity proves that matter and energy can be freely interchanged. MEANING, matter and energy are the same thing. MEANING, if anti-matter exists then some form of anti-energy must exist. MEANING, since there are multiple forms of matter, and therefore antimatter, there must be multiple forms of anti-energy as well. Maybe souls are one of those anti-energies. Maybe you should stop needing solid proof for everything. Maybe for ONCE you should go out on a limb and believe. Put the shotgun down man.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-09 at 23:09:09
That's faith, therefore philosiphy and not sicence. Proof, when mathematical, logical, or experimental, is a requirement of the scinetific method.

Anti-energy cannot exist because it would annihilate whatever "positive" energy it came across. Meaning souls cant exist as "anti-energy" exist, because that means your body would be ripped apart because of its kinetic energy.

Anti-energy doesnt have to exist. Just because energy=matter does not mean that energy is a direct replication of matter. There are not 200+ forms of energy, energy does not have an advanced particle structure, etc. Therefore, anti-energy is not a logically viable option, as even if it did exist, background radiotion, the Higgs field and other forms of near-omniscient "positive" energy would react and annihilate the anti-energy immeadiately, even if it existed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-09-09 at 23:11:52
You can't prove what happens after you die. I think it like goes against the scientific method. If you are actually dead you aren't able to communicate to anyone what happens. Anything could happen after you are dead, but we can only examine the things we can observe from other people's deaths and the things that happen to the body when you die.

And if you are going to say something like there's an afterlife with a spirit or something, it's like trying find a soul.

QUOTE
That's faith, therefore philosiphy and not sicence. Proof, when mathematical, logical, or experimental, is a requirement of the scinetific method.

Anti-energy cannot exist because it would annihilate whatever "positive" energy it came across. Meaning souls cant exist as "anti-energy" exist, because that means your body would be ripped apart because of its kinetic energy.

Anti-energy doesnt have to exist. Just because energy=matter does not mean that energy is a direct replication of matter. There are not 200+ forms of energy, energy does not have an advanced particle structure, etc. Therefore, anti-energy is not a logically viable option, as even if it did exist, background radiotion, the Higgs field and other forms of near-omniscient "positive" energy would react and annihilate the anti-energy immeadiately, even if it existed.


What is the definition of energy? I don't know it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-09-09 at 23:22:22
QUOTE(Dr.Shotgun @ Sep 9 2005, 06:04 PM)
Not just that, your kinetic and bioelectric energy dissipates.

CheeZe, can you clarify that? I was under the impression that your cells died off after your death from lack of nutrients.
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They do die, not instantly. So all the energy you had is still being used. Most logical answer anyway. biggrin.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-09 at 23:26:03
Devilesk:
We can find the simplest and most logical answer, when evidence is lacking.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-09-09 at 23:58:02
QUOTE
We can find the simplest and most logical answer, when evidence is lacking.


True, so I think that people shouldn't argue against the things we KNOW happens when you die. The rest is up to the imagination, even though one explanation might be the simplest and the most logica. However, you still can't know for sure.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-10 at 00:13:59
Yeah, but given the data we have, the most likely explanation is the simplest and most logical one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2005-09-10 at 00:31:30
QUOTE
Anti-energy cannot exist because it would annihilate whatever "positive" energy it came across. Meaning souls cant exist as "anti-energy" exist, because that means your body would be ripped apart because of its kinetic energy.


Ever hear about when there's a ghost around, it gets cold? Maybe that 'anti-energy' is taking the kinetic energy away from the molecules (aka heat) trying to equalize it's energy. It's like negative energy. Like objects moving in opposite directions, simply put.

I totally did that off the top of my head, so I would not asses any validity to that, but it does show that it could be possible.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-10 at 00:38:58
Anti-matter annihilates matter. Using demaris' logic, anti-energy must annihilate normal energy. Annihilation is the complete destruction of an anti-matter and matter particle when they come in conatact, releasing lots of energy, 100+ times more than nuclear fission.

Therefore, ghosts comprised of anti-energy could not exist.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-09-10 at 01:04:42
QUOTE(Dr.Shotgun @ Sep 10 2005, 12:13 AM)
Yeah, but given the data we have, the most likely explanation is the simplest and most logical one.
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What is the data that we have specifically?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-09-10 at 11:17:49
Kinetic and Thermal energy are not the same. They interchange alot, but they are different.
Plus, it was discovered that if anit-matter existed it would not just cancel-out matter, but because there is an INTENSE amount of energy in every atom (proven by nukes), it would explode with ten times the nuclear force as a modern day nuke. (SInce modern day nukes only convert 10% of the matter they are given to energy)

Therefore, every stray particle of anti-matter drifting from an anit-sun or anti-galaxy, would explode with the power of ten nuclear warheads. When's the last time a random nuclear explosion occured in your backyard?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-09-10 at 12:25:34
Isn't there something called dark matter though?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-09-10 at 14:25:14
Dark Matter was something Star Trek fans warped the true meaning of.
Dark Matter, is plain and simply, something that reflect NO light. None at all. That's all it is, nothing fancy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-10 at 20:21:54
We don't know the true nature of dark matter though. There is also "dark energy", or lambda, a sort of antigravitational force.

Antimatter exists under very odd circumstances, it has been isolated in labs before, I believe.

Wikipedia on antimatter
Report, edit, etc...Posted by kirby_star on 2005-09-14 at 19:34:41
QUOTE(Dr.Shotgun @ Sep 10 2005, 05:21 PM)
We don't know the true nature of dark matter though. There is also "dark energy", or lambda, a sort of antigravitational force.

Antimatter exists under very odd circumstances, it has been isolated in labs before, I believe.

Wikipedia on antimatter
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How the heck this came from the end to dark matter I don't understand...
anyways... dark matter IS SPACE what is the vacuum dark matter or dark matter could be the thing black holes are made of so there.... thats what I think....

I'm unconfortable about the end thing so I'll just say this... its nature.... just have fun and be successful in life *and by succesful I mean be happy that you have achieved as much as you have* so yeah... thats it biggrin.gif wink.gif Oh yeah, if you are feeling unconfortable about "the end" just remember that you aren't alone... we are all playing this game of life... wink.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2005-09-14 at 19:35:32

My physics teacher says dark matter has a lot of unknown properties.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by kirby_star on 2005-09-14 at 22:17:19
QUOTE(Demaris @ Sep 14 2005, 04:35 PM)

My physics teacher says dark matter has a lot of unknown properties.

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... pretty obvious.... we still don't exactly know what dark matter really is or we don't know how to hold it or obtain it...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2005-09-14 at 22:23:16

...or if it even exists. Still a theory.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DameDaSnipa. on 2005-09-15 at 09:46:49
Well i believe in heaven and all that "blam" but when i die i wanna be a high templeress
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