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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Religion in schools
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stalingrad on 2005-12-12 at 21:04:13
But with parents, they most likely only see one path, the one that they're raised in, and may never find one that suits them because they only know of one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-12-12 at 21:06:27
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Dec 12 2005, 06:58 PM)
irrelivant

Explain?
I am talking about teaching religion as a "culture experience" like-thingy Social Studies class to help culture people and help them see a bigger world. Not to convert them. That's what I've been saying this whole time if you read correctly and not just little pieces but the whole thing.

It also may help a kid choose what religion if at all he/she wants to be part of instead of like Euro said, being brainwashed into your family's religion.
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So let us go against what our Founding father's dispised, because a few tards want to be taught about religion, because they are to lazy to research it themselves?

ADDITION:
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Dec 12 2005, 07:04 PM)
But with parents, they most likely only see one path, the one that they're raised in, and may never find one that suits them because they only know of one.
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Read above whitie.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2005-12-12 at 21:08:50
true, i do see stalingradk's point of following the parents path but public school is not the place for it. Even as an elective it still violates seperation of churhc and state.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-12 at 21:11:01
QUOTE
I agree with that, but you do have to agree that the reason we left England, was because of the Churches "pursicution" of the Protistants.


You are over-emphasizing it way too much. It was not just religion; if anything, religion actually played a small role in this.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-12-12 at 21:11:36
QUOTE(Euro @ Dec 12 2005, 07:08 PM)
true, i do see stalingradk's point of following the parents path but public school is not the place for it. Even as an elective it still violates seperation of churhc and state.
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If the child really wants to learn about relgion, they will research it on their own time...

It's not the place for schools to teach it, when they can go to a farking library and research -_-
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stalingrad on 2005-12-12 at 21:14:07
How does it go against what our founding fathers dispised? It is not a dictatorship at school, you have a choice ya know.
And not everyone has the same possibilities as you and I, you have to think about the bigger picture, and not locally. What about people that live where it's hard to find anything that doesn't involve your country. ex 2/3rd world countries. And what's the pain of teaching kids about different religions and the cultures within for 2 months in a Social Studies class? That's all I did in the 7th grade, we got a lot out of those 2 months. And It's still not like you have to change your beliefs.

QUOTE
it still violates seperation of churhc and state.

When taught right it doesn't, or my old Socials Studies teacher would be fired yawn.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-12 at 21:16:31
StalingradK, perhaps I'm mistake, but if you believe we should teach religion in classes (elective/time spent is irrelevant), tell me what good comes out of it that does not violate the Constitution.

QUOTE
When taught right it doesn't

Wrong you are. The support of religion (in any way) is strictly prohibited.

There is a difference between teaching religion and teaching what influences religion has had on people.

Martin Luther and the Reformation is ok. Telling us what the bible said is not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stalingrad on 2005-12-12 at 21:19:02
It's part religion, yeah, but mostly what you get out of learning how people around the globe live under it. Don't look at it as religion maybe, but a set of guidelines for some people to live under. Because a lot of religions don't involve just believeing in a god/s but living a certain way.

I never said taking beliefs into consideration, just other people's culture. Teaching bible excerpts is not what was going through my mind when i typed all this.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-12 at 21:22:32
You're not teaching religion then, you're teaching society and how it functions. Making a reference to religion is not teaching religion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stalingrad on 2005-12-12 at 21:23:39
It kind of is, because religion is what is guiding the people, not their own made up rules.

ex. we were taught in the Islamic religion, 5 times a day, people pray facing Mecca, this affects their lives. Just because you don't have a book to preach from, does not mean you are not teaching religion, because not everyone believes in the books. If teaching the practices, prophits, and beliefs of a religion that affects their lives isn't technically teaching religion, what is?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2005-12-12 at 21:53:02
QUOTE
Uh, no.

Where do you get your information from? I use wiki and old U.S. history books that I never turned back in.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-12 at 21:54:49
QUOTE
If teaching the practices, prophits, and beliefs of a religion that affects their lives isn't technically teaching religion, what is?


Supporting the ideas and explaining why they should do this.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stalingrad on 2005-12-12 at 21:57:15
Hrm got me there.... Fine I will change teaching religion to teaching religious concepts? cheers.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KrAzY on 2005-12-12 at 21:58:05
If there are islam children in the School, you can't possible ban religion from schools, or so called Alah will get mad at the islam Children who did not pray 5 times per day a lot, then that's a total mess up.

Err... I just read the Last 10 Posts [ In reverse order ] and notice StalingradK's post.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-12 at 22:06:35
QUOTE(StalingradK @ Dec 12 2005, 09:57 PM)
Hrm got me there.... Fine I will change teaching religion to teaching religious concepts?  cheers.gif
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Teaching religious influence.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2005-12-13 at 05:13:05
QUOTE(Euro @ Dec 12 2005, 04:26 PM)
I am an athiest who does NOT want to learn about some half-assed religion that has no facts to prove theres a god and by chris saying in a post on sen that there is evidence in god if you belive him makes me want to find out where he lives and laugh in his face and shiz on his bible. sorry for being blunt.
america was founded not because of religion. We came here because of religion, yes, but we were ruled by england later on. We seperated from england because of the laws being passed and no taxtation without representation.
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There are more facts behind Christianity than evolution. Just last night, I saw a documentary on Mt Atarat, the one supposedly carrying Noah's ark.


QUOTE(Jet_Blast54 @ Dec 12 2005, 08:06 PM)
The schools shouldn't preach it but they should teach it.
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Let me emphasize that.


QUOTE(Euro @ Dec 12 2005, 08:18 PM)
oh, screw you. Those that actually believe in god are ignorant. They are the oens who can't see passed the wool thats been thrown over your eyes. Your sir, are as guilty as the rest. Religion is bullshiz, I don't want to learn about what some crackhead wrote in a book and how he spoke to god and such. A kid on my bus says he speaks to god... he has a mental disorder.

I guess that makes you as dumb as shiz.
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Blindly following and understanding are two WAY different things Euro.


QUOTE(Euro @ Dec 12 2005, 08:43 PM)
hes actualy a college student... how old are you? 14? 15?

Also do not say religion cannot rule ppls lives because I have seen ppl who are ruled by it. Kids who can't watch violent movies, play any sort of games (rayman even) because its a sin (as the father says). Basicly haveing absolutely no life at all because he doesn't want to sin.
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As previously mentioned, it's the parent's perrogitive to not allow that. I, myself was not allowed much if any video games. I just think that some kids shouldn't be allowed to have them, but I'm getting off topic. I've seen parents who dont allow games like that and they're athiest, so I would not limit that to solely religious people.


QUOTE(StalingradK @ Dec 12 2005, 09:04 PM)
But with parents, they most likely only see one path, the one that they're raised in, and may never find one that suits them because they only know of one.
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A reason to have the class. I do agree, though, that if they really wanted to learn about it, there are books and the internet.


QUOTE(Kellimoose @ Dec 12 2005, 09:06 PM)
So let us go against what our Founding father's dispised, because a few tards want to be taught about religion, because they are to lazy to research it themselves?

ADDITION:
Read above whitie.
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The nation was loosely based on christian principals, not beliefs.


QUOTE(CheeZe @ Dec 12 2005, 09:11 PM)
You are over-emphasizing it way too much. It was not just religion; if anything, religion actually played a small role in this.
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A lot of it was Primo Geniter. This is where only the eldest son may inherit the father's wealth, so the younger sons are forced to find a living elsewhere, and the slowly crowding streets of Britain are no place to do this, so they head over to the colonies.


QUOTE(Kellimoose @ Dec 12 2005, 09:11 PM)
If the child really wants to learn about relgion, they will research it on their own time...

It's not the place for schools to teach it, when they can go to a farking library and research -_-
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I think that if they're really wanting to know about it, they can research it, but researching doesn't have the social aspect nor the debate of a classroom. It's a bit hard to debate with a book.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by VizuaL on 2005-12-14 at 15:43:32
well i go to a catholic school but do u mean public? the teachesr and school community are teaching religion because theres a hole in the evolution chain and they think religion could be a possibility. Anyways there not Telling them its true, there just letting the kids know.

anyways thats wat i think

disgust.gif

--Vizual
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2005-12-14 at 19:21:56
QUOTE
the teachesr and school community are teaching religion because theres a hole in the evolution chain and they think religion could be a possibility.

That doesn't make sense.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by VizuaL on 2005-12-14 at 19:31:47
QUOTE
That doesn't make sense.


wat doesnt make sense, evolution isnt fully true and they are starting to think there is a god and religion is true, and now they are letting kids know about other theories of the creation of the earth and mankind
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2005-12-14 at 20:01:36
QUOTE
evolution isnt fully true and they are starting to think there is a god and religion is true, and now they are letting kids know about other theories of the creation of the earth and mankind

uh no. They aren't starting to think its true. the only ppl who think its true is the believers of the faith. ppl who are religious and are on the schoolboards want to teach it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-12-14 at 21:16:36
Um... The last time I knew, religion spoke that evolution is fake -_-
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-12-14 at 22:17:13
Ok, this topic died a long time ago. I've already shown why religion shouldn't be in schools; no one has refuted the arguements.

Take your evolution/creation arguements elsewhere. If you're going to create one, I highly suggest looking at past threads because I don't want to repeat the same arguements over and over.

Locked
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2005-12-15 at 14:05:06
CheeZe, you shouldn't sound so finite and conclusive about your own arguments. People are allowed their own points of view. Besides, if you are going to moderate, I'm fairly certain you shouldn't show such blatant bias.
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