Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-09-07 at 17:14:10
Congratulations. Now, I can't list every map that has been duplicated 20 times because of OSMAP, but I will do my best to give you the full report by tomorrow.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-09-07 at 17:15:07
DEAD its spelled "loser". Now whose the loser?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Koltz on 2006-09-07 at 17:16:32
Whats the difference if there's 20 versions? What the hell that has got to be the weakest argument i have ever seen.
Oh no i cant play a game because i have 20 versions of the same map.
Theyre all the same. If uve ever used OSMAP, it damages maps most of the time beyond repair, so it usually doesnt work when trying to rig. However if u can repair it, the map maker will be good enough to do something PRODUCTIVE with the map, not rigging it.
Why would u give a map thats 99% done to someone?
Oh no i cant play a game because i have 20 versions of the same map.
Theyre all the same. If uve ever used OSMAP, it damages maps most of the time beyond repair, so it usually doesnt work when trying to rig. However if u can repair it, the map maker will be good enough to do something PRODUCTIVE with the map, not rigging it.
QUOTE
ike how? You mean stealing the map before it's even made? Like I am working my ass off to make an awesome map, you steal it when it's 99% done and release it before I do? Yea, this way I couldn't even prove that I made it. Cool.
Why would u give a map thats 99% done to someone?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-09-07 at 17:21:13
To test, you (insert purposely censored word here), to test. How do you test a multiplayer map? With someone else. And don't tell me your 'To stop the overlapping words' argument is stronger then mine.
Just drop it.. There's no way you can convince me, and you apparently can't be convinced either.
Just drop it.. There's no way you can convince me, and you apparently can't be convinced either.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-09-07 at 17:23:32
Ok, cycling beyond all the other posts that have been posted since I posted, I agree that the mapper has a certain right to protect his or her work. I mean, you've already proven beyond any questionable doubt whatsoever that the mapper has no legal rights to protect maps. However, if the only thing that concerned us as a community was legality, that would make us fairly bland, wouldn't it? Beyond legality, there is morality. Giving those the power to change a map regardless of the mapper's will is fairly immoral. I don't care if you can improve the map to incredibly better standards. The mapper has an unspoken right (or priviledge if you will) to keep his work his own.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-09-07 at 17:27:53
Some people like Open Source stuff and some people don't. A lot of software prohibit reverse engineering, so it depends on whether you see an SC map as a piece of "software" or not.
You have your Googles and you have your Microsofts, but you can't force everyone to go with one or the other.
Nobody is stupid but everyone has an opinion, get over it.
You have your Googles and you have your Microsofts, but you can't force everyone to go with one or the other.
Nobody is stupid but everyone has an opinion, get over it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2006-09-07 at 17:30:07
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 7 2006, 09:45 AM)
LW dirty lied to us all also to moose. I think this requires no more explanations about why he did get fired. 
When and where did he lie? He never went out saying "Oh, I never made OSMAP."How many people went up to him saying "Hey, LW, did you make OSMAP?" anyways? Hmm. Obviously not many. So how is that lying?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Koltz on 2006-09-07 at 17:37:26
QUOTE(Centreri @ Sep 7 2006, 03:20 PM)
To test, you (insert purposely censored word here), to test. How do you test a multiplayer map? With someone else. And don't tell me your 'To stop the overlapping words' argument is stronger then mine.
Just drop it.. There's no way you can convince me, and you apparently can't be convinced either.
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Just drop it.. There's no way you can convince me, and you apparently can't be convinced either.
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another weak arguement. Why test with an untrustable person.
I'll leave it at that, these posts have been my first and last posts here, although i have been viewing this forum for many months.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-07 at 17:39:15
QUOTE(O)FaRTy1billion @ Sep 8 2006, 12:29 AM)
When and where did he lie? He never went out saying "Oh, I never made OSMAP."
How many people went up to him saying "Hey, LW, did you make OSMAP?" anyways? Hmm. Obviously not many. So how is that lying?
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How many people went up to him saying "Hey, LW, did you make OSMAP?" anyways? Hmm. Obviously not many. So how is that lying?
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He was taking part in the anti-OSMAP topic as a "protection" specialist. People trusted him and shared their methods. LW, used our trust and updated OSMAP making our efforts useless. In other words, he dirty lied to us.
Kashmir, whatever how you spell it, just look at it:
I can make good maps. > he can't
I don't have to steal maps because I can make them myself > he steals maps because he sucks at mapmaking
I don't rig other people maps, instead I make my own > He sucks so much that only way for him is to rig other people maps
Yep, he's a loser.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-09-07 at 18:03:22
QUOTE(Tdnfthe1 @ Sep 7 2006, 04:59 PM)
ANYWAY I just wanna say what I bet everyone else is thinking but feels bad to say it. To make an unprotector for maps requires alot of determination(cuz of all the work involved). And i don't see where that came from, so my thoughts are you're 1 very bored person... You need something else besides SC to keep you occupied, im not saying putting hours into sc is bad but when you have enough of your free time to create an entire program and really not for any reason.... it's just a little unsettling.
~Tdnfthe1
~Tdnfthe1
[sarcasm]I'm sure Legacy needed the psychological counseling.[/sarcasm]
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 7 2006, 05:05 PM)
There is no legimate use for OSMAP other than riggeng/stealing maps. 
OSMAP is valuable as an educational tool. Unfortunately, it's capabilities take it way beyond that.
QUOTE(Koltz @ Sep 7 2006, 05:16 PM)
Why would u give a map thats 99% done to someone?
QUOTE(Centreri @ Sep 7 2006, 05:20 PM)
To test, you (insert purposely censored word here), to test. How do you test a multiplayer map? With someone else.
You know, testing. That thing that lets the original mapper make the map the way he intended to so that you don't have to open it up and edit it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by V0lcom on 2006-09-07 at 18:36:23
No offense, but why can't people just drop it?
He made this not for stealing and you all know his
intentions. He didn't mean any harm. So just let
it go and move on with life, it's really not that hard.
I know maps mean a lot to some people. But you
can't do anything about it. Female dogging is
all you can do, and it's going to get you no where.
So just drop it
He made this not for stealing and you all know his
intentions. He didn't mean any harm. So just let
it go and move on with life, it's really not that hard.
I know maps mean a lot to some people. But you
can't do anything about it. Female dogging is
all you can do, and it's going to get you no where.
So just drop it
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-07 at 18:44:47
QUOTE
OSMAP is valuable as an educational tool. Unfortunately, it's capabilities take it way beyond that.
BS, what can you learn from looking at the map? If you are such a noob you can't learn anything by looking at 1000 triggers connected with each other with null location, switch, DC and comments strings. Besides there is a Trigger viewer.
If the map is simple enough to understand it clearly, what's the point to learn from it if it doesn't involve anything complex.
I doubt that OSMAP has been used for seriously learning something form a map, I think it won't be used for that either, ever. It's just a excuse that map stealers/riggers use.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-09-07 at 18:59:46
QUOTE(Centreri @ Sep 7 2006, 01:07 PM)
If you're going to reference the fact that most 8-12 year olds can't find OSMAP, also reference the fact that most 8-12 year olds can't find SEN and the official version!
Take this scenario, for the third time:
You join a game of whatever you like to play. You download the map. You start playing. Red has 99 battlecruisers. You leave. You decide to host the map. You find it. You host, get players, start playing. Guess what you have? 99 battlecruisers! With each game, up to 7 more people possibly lost the good version of whatever map it was and got the bad version.
As I said before, AUTHORS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT THEIR MAPS IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. They made the map, other people have no right to edit it without their permission. If not for that person, you wouldn't even know a map, and now you're disrespecting their wishes? If the authors of the maps don't care about protection, as you don't seem to, then THEY SHOULDN'T PROTECT THEIR MAPS.
LegacyWeapon took the right to choose whether to protect or not protect from the map makers. You made a map, posted link on SEN, released the map. Then comes along another person saying he made the map, shows you a version with all the same features and correct credits showing that he made the map. He says that you have stolen the map before it was finished and put it on SEN. What? You can't prove it's your map? IT'S BECAUSE OF OSMAP.
Sorry about all the capitals, peeps. This is becoming tedious. I'll try to resist answering again.
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Take this scenario, for the third time:
You join a game of whatever you like to play. You download the map. You start playing. Red has 99 battlecruisers. You leave. You decide to host the map. You find it. You host, get players, start playing. Guess what you have? 99 battlecruisers! With each game, up to 7 more people possibly lost the good version of whatever map it was and got the bad version.
As I said before, AUTHORS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT THEIR MAPS IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. They made the map, other people have no right to edit it without their permission. If not for that person, you wouldn't even know a map, and now you're disrespecting their wishes? If the authors of the maps don't care about protection, as you don't seem to, then THEY SHOULDN'T PROTECT THEIR MAPS.
LegacyWeapon took the right to choose whether to protect or not protect from the map makers. You made a map, posted link on SEN, released the map. Then comes along another person saying he made the map, shows you a version with all the same features and correct credits showing that he made the map. He says that you have stolen the map before it was finished and put it on SEN. What? You can't prove it's your map? IT'S BECAUSE OF OSMAP.
Sorry about all the capitals, peeps
. This is becoming tedious. I'll try to resist answering again.[right][snapback]556961[/snapback][/right]
Amen. It's the rest of the immature arguments I have to sift through that make me miss the High Templar forum.
QUOTE(Koltz @ Sep 7 2006, 02:08 PM)
you obviously care too much about maps. Let it go, its not the end of the world. By the way, how am i supposed to make a map without the knowledge of it?
Now provide me with proof as where there have been incidents where osmap has done any of the above.
Are you also saying stealing and re-using old ideas is a bad thing?
Look at the EARTH. GET AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER. Recycling is used ALL AROUND YOU.
Music, even hip hop artists such as Tupac used inspiration from Machiaveli (or w/e) and he even named himself Makaveli. Look at the song Runnin', Eminem produced that song by using someone elses hook!
In books, how many books have the same plot, but with their own spin and uniqueness?
In movies, read above.
In TV, read above.
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Now provide me with proof as where there have been incidents where osmap has done any of the above.
Are you also saying stealing and re-using old ideas is a bad thing?
Look at the EARTH. GET AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER. Recycling is used ALL AROUND YOU.
Music, even hip hop artists such as Tupac used inspiration from Machiaveli (or w/e) and he even named himself Makaveli. Look at the song Runnin', Eminem produced that song by using someone elses hook!
In books, how many books have the same plot, but with their own spin and uniqueness?
In movies, read above.
In TV, read above.
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If mapping is so pointless, go away. What are you doing on a MAPPING SITE?
Secondly, do you even have a clue who Niccolo Machiavelli was?
Thirdly, stories which re-use plots are never as good as ones which have inventive and original plots. Books that re-use plots are comparable to maps which re-use ideas, not stolen maps.
QUOTE(V0lcom @ Sep 7 2006, 03:36 PM)
No offense, but why can't people just drop it?
He made this not for stealing and you all know his
intentions. He didn't mean any harm.
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He made this not for stealing and you all know his
intentions. He didn't mean any harm.
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It would be nice if it was possible for LegacyWeapon to be that naieve. He knew very well the consequences of releasing OSMAP, and he didn't care.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Joker47 on 2006-09-07 at 19:12:26
Yeah, go OSMAP, the true advantages right here (You better read it):
---DL races, now with more versions of maps, there are more oppertunities for DL races, who doesn't like those?
---All the new people that just bought Starcraft can learn how to make uber leet maps.
---There was hardly a reason for uberation4, and now we have one!
---Now we can all have 99 BC's when everyone else has 1... so you can be 99 times better in all your games
---We can fix the laps/colors in forces in all the games we were too stupid to put a backup file for.
---Now we can collect all the different kind of maps, it will so be the new spoon collecting.
---There will be a ton of new people on battle because they all want to collect versions of maps.
---People can save time in making maps, and just change the properties and mission briefings and call it good.
---Now since everyone knows all the complicated triggers on pokemon catchers and evolves we can mix the 2 together!!!! An now the pokemon can evolve. Zomg.
---MindArchon can check off another thing off his to-do list.
---Now we can see how those old DOS computer used to work.
^OSMAP Pwnage. Yes/No?
---DL races, now with more versions of maps, there are more oppertunities for DL races, who doesn't like those?
---All the new people that just bought Starcraft can learn how to make uber leet maps.
---There was hardly a reason for uberation4, and now we have one!
---Now we can all have 99 BC's when everyone else has 1... so you can be 99 times better in all your games
---We can fix the laps/colors in forces in all the games we were too stupid to put a backup file for.
---Now we can collect all the different kind of maps, it will so be the new spoon collecting.
---There will be a ton of new people on battle because they all want to collect versions of maps.
---People can save time in making maps, and just change the properties and mission briefings and call it good.
---Now since everyone knows all the complicated triggers on pokemon catchers and evolves we can mix the 2 together!!!! An now the pokemon can evolve. Zomg.
---MindArchon can check off another thing off his to-do list.
---Now we can see how those old DOS computer used to work.
^OSMAP Pwnage. Yes/No?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-09-07 at 19:13:33
This is turning into another one of those "anti OSMaP vs. OSMaP" arguments, it's never gonna end, noone will change their opinions. We should stop that argument, since OSMaP was released ages ago. The ethical considerations are pointless. We can't do anything!
I must now refrain from adding to the argument like moose, tux, and all the others failed to refrain from doing.
and v0l, you're telling people to stop arguing (like I did) but you added your argument! Just leave it. Forget about it. Who cares!
I must now refrain from adding to the argument like moose, tux, and all the others failed to refrain from doing.
and v0l, you're telling people to stop arguing (like I did) but you added your argument! Just leave it. Forget about it. Who cares!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-09-07 at 19:15:34
Yeah, I really doubt someone like Legacy Weapon was naive enough to think that there can be only good from this program. He just thought that there would be more good then bad.
I've listed theoretical reasons why there is more bad then good, but since I haven't been on battlenet in a while I don't know what is really happening there.
I've listed theoretical reasons why there is more bad then good, but since I haven't been on battlenet in a while I don't know what is really happening there.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-07 at 19:17:21
There is no argue in there. It's been talked through over and over. All the OSMAP "good" uses are just excuses for stealing maps. Period.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-09-07 at 19:21:32
Alright, it's been stated in this very thread that SEN doesn't support unprotection. Why are we still arguing about whether or not unprotection is beneficial or not?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rizaun on 2006-09-07 at 19:23:32
Well, at this point, i don't care anymore for Map Protection (Yeah i had an accident with one of my unprotected maps and all i had left was an unfinished Protected one!), i could ask for people that want to edit one of mine, to just simply leave my name on it, but i guess some people are just retards trying to prove they know how to make maps while they don't, i don't really lose anything, and it's not a 100% chance that someone will edit it, i also protected my maps most likely cuz of the sounds, but now SEN has a DB where people share useful wavs for maps, so it doesn't really matter anymore. but this is my personal opinion.
I'm not affected by OSMAP in any way, but some people do, people who work to the bone to make a cool map, just to see his creation with another name and author, and thus, Holy Path made By: Zaon (As an example, hes not real) becomes Holy Path v3.1416 INFINITE GOLD!! Made By: DickheadpussyJohn. A bit different if you didnt notice a glitch in your map, and someone else does, and fixes it, and maybe thinks up of a better idea to improve something you did, but as I see, protection is not only to save your map from thieves, but also cuz the creator wanted to be that way and that one other would edit it.
I'm not affected by OSMAP in any way, but some people do, people who work to the bone to make a cool map, just to see his creation with another name and author, and thus, Holy Path made By: Zaon (As an example, hes not real) becomes Holy Path v3.1416 INFINITE GOLD!! Made By: DickheadpussyJohn. A bit different if you didnt notice a glitch in your map, and someone else does, and fixes it, and maybe thinks up of a better idea to improve something you did, but as I see, protection is not only to save your map from thieves, but also cuz the creator wanted to be that way and that one other would edit it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-09-07 at 19:48:21
QUOTE(laser_dude @ Sep 6 2006, 04:46 PM)
Well, as punishment/fix-the-problem we could force him to remove the program from all the sites he's uploaded it to. Then the only way for people to get it would be to find other people who had it. That would "cut the diseases source off" Of course, it'd still be around, but one helluva lot harder to find.
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I like laser's idea,although like in real life, if there still is one carrier,it can sprad again.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-09-07 at 19:51:08
as someone else pointed out, we can't control LW, but when I said it I was thinking as a way to redeem himself, and that was exactly the problem with my plan.
But if numerous people have a cut finger which they are holding inside a pond, or something with lots of disease, it'd be coming through their cuts, as well as transfering between them in the classical way. But the first thing you'd think of doing when you have your fingers in the pond, is:
A: GET THEM OUT OF THERE!!! but then again, we can't make everyone take their fingers out.
B: steralize the pond, so no more disease comes out.
of course, the first option wouldn't work, because we can't force people to take their fingers out of this pond(or stop DLing OSMaP), but if we cut off the source, all the disease left would be in the people, who might eventually get better(get a new computer,get rid of the program, format the hard disk because of all the viruses), but the only way to get the disease is from another carrier. Of course, with OSMaP, they would choose to get this "disease" back, they would have to find a carrier willing to give them a copy of the disease.
But if numerous people have a cut finger which they are holding inside a pond, or something with lots of disease, it'd be coming through their cuts, as well as transfering between them in the classical way. But the first thing you'd think of doing when you have your fingers in the pond, is:
A: GET THEM OUT OF THERE!!! but then again, we can't make everyone take their fingers out.
B: steralize the pond, so no more disease comes out.
of course, the first option wouldn't work, because we can't force people to take their fingers out of this pond(or stop DLing OSMaP), but if we cut off the source, all the disease left would be in the people, who might eventually get better(get a new computer,get rid of the program, format the hard disk because of all the viruses), but the only way to get the disease is from another carrier. Of course, with OSMaP, they would choose to get this "disease" back, they would have to find a carrier willing to give them a copy of the disease.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dumbducky on 2006-09-07 at 20:01:32
He's not going to destroy his own creation. He supports OSMAP, and we have no control over him. Uberation was more about compression than it was about protection.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Urmom(U) on 2006-09-07 at 20:01:54
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 7 2006, 05:38 PM)
He was taking part in the anti-OSMAP topic as a "protection" specialist. People trusted him and shared their methods. LW, used our trust and updated OSMAP making our efforts useless. In other words, he dirty lied to us.
Kashmir, whatever how you spell it, just look at it:
I can make good maps. > he can't
I don't have to steal maps because I can make them myself > he steals maps because he sucks at mapmaking
I don't rig other people maps, instead I make my own > He sucks so much that only way for him is to rig other people maps
Yep, he's a loser.
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Kashmir, whatever how you spell it, just look at it:
I can make good maps. > he can't
I don't have to steal maps because I can make them myself > he steals maps because he sucks at mapmaking
I don't rig other people maps, instead I make my own > He sucks so much that only way for him is to rig other people maps
Yep, he's a loser.
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Are you saying that LW steals and rigs map?
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 7 2006, 06:44 PM)
BS, what can you learn from looking at the map? If you are such a noob you can't learn anything by looking at 1000 triggers connected with each other with null location, switch, DC and comments strings. Besides there is a Trigger viewer.
If the map is simple enough to understand it clearly, what's the point to learn from it if it doesn't involve anything complex.
I doubt that OSMAP has been used for seriously learning something form a map, I think it won't be used for that either, ever. It's just a excuse that map stealers/riggers use.
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If the map is simple enough to understand it clearly, what's the point to learn from it if it doesn't involve anything complex.
I doubt that OSMAP has been used for seriously learning something form a map, I think it won't be used for that either, ever. It's just a excuse that map stealers/riggers use.
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Trigger viewer is pretty much useless when the you can't tell locations apart. Not every map has 1000 triggers, in fact probably 99.9% of the maps that are played on battle.net don't (rough estimate). You don't have to decipher every single trigger, just the section that you are looking for. There is other things than triggers too. For some reason, you seem to think that OSMAP is only for stealing. I've used OSMAP to look at triggering and to look at other features of a map. I haven't stolen a map. But according to your posts I guess I have to be a map stealer because there isn't any way to learn from maps.
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 7 2006, 07:16 PM)
There is no argue in there. It's been talked through over and over. All the OSMAP "good" uses are just excuses for stealing maps. Period.
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Again you fail to realize that map stealing isn't the only use.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dumbducky on 2006-09-07 at 20:03:28
But if it reaches the masses, it will be the most popular one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-09-07 at 20:09:02
QUOTE(Kashmir @ Sep 7 2006, 09:14 PM)
DEAD its spelled "loser". Now whose the loser?
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It's a good thing DEAD has you here to notice his spelling errors, wise one![/scarcasm]