Staredit Network

I was refering to koltz.

Trigger viewer shows locations.

In fact 99.9% of battle maps you are talking about are noob? You can't learn anything from them.

Ok, you say you've used it for serious learning. What exactly did you learn?


What exactly did you learn.

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I'm trying to say. It's not exactly learning that you are talking about, it's more like interest to see the map. I've had it to, like I see a good map and then I wonder how it looks, how the trigers are grouped and stuff. But that is not serious learning. And it can't outweight the harm.

Ok here, I've compiled a few lists:



Protection is bad. Here's why:

• It prevents people from learning from other's maps.
• Maps can't be improved or upgraded by others who enjoy playing them.
• Protection seems to do little else but secure bragging rights for the author.
• Maps where never meant to be protected anyway. Blizzard never released a protector, did they?
• Protectors, like all third party software (including modding tools and map editors), are illegal and against the EULA.
• Maps affected by Starcraft patch changes can't easily be updated/fixed.
• Maps benefit more from being open to others for learning/improvement than they gain from being permanently protected from rigging or stealing.
• There could be more varieties of a given map available to choose from, based on preference.

And of course:

Protection is good. Here's why:

• It prevents people from stealing maps.
• Maps can't be rigged or imbalanced.
• Protected maps need less downloads than frequently modified unprotected maps (each requiring new downloads). You know what to expect each time you play.
• Authors should always have more rights to their maps than random bnet strangers.
• Protection allows the author to control who gets access to the map and who doesn't, at their discretion.
• Protection is optional. Authors may wish to keep their maps open source, but they don't have to if they feel endangered.

What about LegacyWeapon's unprotector though?

Unprotection is good. Here's why:

• It's already out. There's no going back... unless someone makes another protector.
• Previously blocked maps are now free to see inside and learn from.
• Maps can now be improved, updated, or fixed, if their authors have neglected/are unable to do so themselves.
• With protection out of the way, mappers can be closer by being able to share editing a given map.
• Who cares about whose name is on the map anyway? Editing maps is supposed to be for fun. Protection just gets in the way of that.
• Someone was probably gonna make/release one anyway.

Unprotection is bad. Here's why:

• Maps can now be stolen by malicious parties.
• Maps can now be rigged or imbalanced.
• My rights to my maps are taken away by others who disagree with my having them. That's not fair.
• Unprotection strips a map of all its labels and trigger commenting, making learning from or trying to modify it too obfusticating anyway.
• Now I'm forced to have to convince others of being the author, if my works get stolen.
• If I don't have a good reputation, I may not be able to convince others. I risk losing my maps if so.
• If I'm at risk, I'll end up spending more time defending myself, and less time making maps.
• An unprotector, also a third party program, would be just as "illegal" as a protector is, anyway.

That should about cover it all the main perspectives on the matter. Did I forget any?

80% of the statments are wrong or stupid.

Really who cares if LW created OSMAP, whocares if your maps can be unlocked, if ya dont like it then you can always stop making maps or releasing them. If LW didnt do it someone else would of done it. Not everyone gonna steal your map because can open it with osmap. Sometimes person wants look how you did something. Really i couldnt careless if osmap was out oer not, i still dont protect my maps as is.

Now thats giving up, and giving up is for losers, as well as map stealing is for losers.

http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopi...ndpost&p=557292

Already mentioned.


Sorry, I'm getting tired of this bickering. I'd like to put an end to it. Unless I've missed anything, that's really all there is to be said about this issue.

I never said i give up. I still create maps n release them. Really up to person whe he/she does, cant stop a person from doing stuff. Maybe giving up is for losers, Sometimes giving up the only option.

No, it's never the only option. You can always fight for yourself and for others.

If you want do something about it, Make your own protection program i guess simple as that.

...that's assuming it too doesn't get patched. :/


No, I think a better (and probably the only) long-term solution would be to improve the map submission system here at SEN to better associate authors correctly with their maps.

And we(active mapmakers) should stick together. If we do, no map stealers will ever beat us.

First you claim that SEN is not a real map maker site.

Then you say that we do have some real map makers.

But that is just spamm. What really does matter is that it totally depends on the person, and does not depend on how active is he in b-net, or how many maps have they made. I'm sure LW made maps. I made maps and am currently making one, and I am active on b-net. But I'm not activle for protection.

I see...

You do have to remember... that maps can be unprotected anyway... I guess OSMap gives you an easy alternative route to it.

I don't know what demoting LW will actually do for SEN.
Maybe for the best, I hope.

Not many people have OSMap it seems. Just make your maps...

Yeah, and I was suspended for supposedly making yoshi leave. The problem is, though, with the way he was acting it didn't really seem like he wanted to linger. You can't blame all of this on me, part of it just seemed to be that he was disgusted with this community.

Bingo. Map protection is optional, anyway. I'd encourage people to choose not to use it as much as they can, instead of want it to not exist at all. As long as there's even one case where map protection matters, then whoever would use it deserves to have it.



But really, this is all nearly moot now anyway. Protection is gone, and any new ones'll just probably be patched by OSMAP. We might as well accept that, and look into the alternative way to get maps associated with their authors better.

I'll start a thread on my idea for that soon, when I can work up the gumption to do so. Nevermind, it'd be little better than what we got now, on second thought.

Wow, it seems than no one can trust anyone nowadays... I pity all those (including me) that ever used uberation. That was the definition of back-stabbing. I wonder why LW even bothered to create uberation if he was pro-open source. Unless he saw in uberation a "mistake" that he had to "fix" with OSMAP. If that wasn't the case then I fail to see the logic behind LW's actions.

@LegacyWeapon: I respect the fact that you have become known to the online Starcraft community as the creator of the most secure map-protector, uberation. OSMAP became infamous also, gaining it's creator (you) negative(?) fame but still fame. Somehow your products managed to capture the attention of the majority of Starcraft map-makers. If that was your intention all along, you did a great job.

If you think that by releasing OSMAP you did good to the community think again. I won't bother you with pros/cons of protection and unprotection. Let me just remind you how many threads have started for your infamous OSMAP. How many hours have been spent over arguing about this protection/unprotection issue... If you hadn't released OSMAP these people could have spent their time in something more productive like CREATING MAPS.

BTW, let me be clear that I'm not against the fact that you created OSMAP. Creating something (anything) is a wonderful thing and we should encourage it. But making such a powerful tool available for everyone, that is another story. Why on earth didn't you just release a trigger-viewer instead of OSMAP??? Wouldn't that be enough?

And I won't accept the "if it wasn't done by me it would have been done by someone else" kind of argument because right now I don't see many unprotectors around. I'm pretty much sure that you're the only one who bothered to create an unprotector for uberation. So IMHO the fault is yours and yours only.

But what do I know? I'm just a noob...

.CHK ftw.

The current chk specs have reports of inaccuracy, though. But I heard there might be an update soon. Forget who told me that, though (clokr?).

Yeah, protection isn't a good long term way to secure your map. Do what most other industries do and publish your work "officially", like here at SEN or at Starcraft.org.

I don't like OSMAP because my maps are perfect, therefore editing them could only make them worse.

People like to say that having a lot of different versions of a map is a good thing, because it gives people a choice to pick the good one. This is totally untrue. It is very difficult to figure out which map as which, and the more complicated the map becomes the more difficult this becomes. The differences become extremely small despite perhaps being extremely significant. I made sure that my maps worked perfectly the first time around so I would never have to release a "1.01" version number. I'm sorry that I'm a professional with actual talent who has the potential to be harmed by this.


After I said it I realized how true this is. OSMAP is communism. People with talent are harmed and people without talent are helped. Instead of asking the people with talent to help you (which they have every right to refuse) you forcibly attempt to steal their talent and their work from them. Now, I think this argument can be settled by mentioning a little thing called the SOVIET UNION.

It failed. Therefore OSMAP is bad.



PS: Jammed, I had an elaborate rebuttal but I'd rather not make a giant post so I deleted it. For the record, it proved you wrong.

My bad, it displays locations like "Location 1" "Location 2" etc, it's still a pain in the ass to read it that way. I don't use it for serious learning but I have learned a lot of tricks and such. But yea, like you said I just like to really unprotect maps to see what they look like in the editor.

Uh, http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopi...ndpost&p=556160

What? I never made that reply.

So to elaborate, a better comparison of Legacy would be to Joseph Stalin. Willing to harm inviduals in a mad quest to spread the use of a flawed system.