Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-07-20 at 08:21:55
See, now you guys are just retorting and counter-retorting the same things.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by n2o-SiMpSoNs on 2005-07-20 at 10:20:05
I bet you the vegitarian to meat eater ratio (humans) would be like 1:1000000 or something so one vegitarean wont make a difference...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-20 at 10:24:50
Um, actually, using the "Least Harm" principle, you SHOULD EAT MEAT. http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/...food/vegan.html It's linked in Maddox's article. The thing is, I DON'T care that animals are dying, but you apparently do, so the fact that you're a killer nullifies your entire argument. If you really did care, you'd plant your own crops and make your own food, but no, that's too inconvenient, right? Then stop your stupid moral crusade, you're a hypocrite.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-20 at 10:50:46
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 20 2005, 07:24 AM)
Um, actually, using the "Least Harm" principle, you SHOULD EAT MEAT. http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/...food/vegan.html It's linked in Maddox's article. The thing is, I DON'T care that animals are dying, but you apparently do, so the fact that you're a killer nullifies your entire argument. If you really did care, you'd plant your own crops and make your own food, but no, that's too inconvenient, right? Then stop your stupid moral crusade, you're a hypocrite.
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Dude! WTF!
To much of an inconvienience....? DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO *UCKING PLANT CROPS AND KEEP THEM ALIVE?!?!?!?!
NO, YOU PROBIBLY DON'T! YOU'RE JUST A CITY BOY WHO HAS A STICK SHOVED A WEE LITTLE TO FAR UP YOUR ***!!!!
Now... STFU before this country boy shows you what's up!
You disgust me...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-20 at 13:26:38
If it means so much to you, you should be going out and growing your own crops. Keeping a GARDEN alive isn't that hard, you're just not committed to vegetarianism as much as you are committed to be a narcissist. Read the article on the least harm principle, and by the way, Kellimus, if you're such a country boy, how're you on the computer? Why aren't you out in the fields working? Maybe you live in a modern house out in farm lands? I live in farm land, but I'm by no means a country boy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-20 at 13:34:05
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 20 2005, 10:26 AM)
If it means so much to you, you should be going out and growing your own crops. Keeping a GARDEN alive isn't that hard, you're just not committed to vegetarianism as much as you are committed to be a narcissist. Read the article on the least harm principle, and by the way, Kellimus, if you're such a country boy, how're you on the computer? Why aren't you out in the fields working? Maybe you live in a modern house out in farm lands? I live in farm land, but I'm by no means a country boy.
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Keeping gardens alive are hard you
.Have you heard of a job? And have you heard of Dial-up you
?Wilhelm. Get a life. Quit dissing on people with higher knowledge then you. Just because Parthx has better points then you, doesn't give you the right to diss on him.
And I used to live on a farm until my dad was forced to sell it you pompus dolt!
Just because I have modern things doesn't mean jack
, you egotistical moron.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-20 at 13:53:30
You have a tendency to talk out of your . This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.
. This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-20 at 15:12:45
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 20 2005, 10:53 AM)
You have a tendency to talk out of your . This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.
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. This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.[right][snapback]266339[/snapback][/right]
I would just like to point out the fact that you call everyone that is against you a, narcissist. Look in the god damn mirror man! Do you even KNOW the definition of narcissist? Hmm?
And just because you changed your name, doesn't change the fact that *** **** ***
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-20 at 15:46:07
QUOTE(Parthx86 @ Jul 20 2005, 05:11 AM)
I don't think you should even be part of this conversation considering you're way too lazy and ignorant to read others' opinions
Face the truth?! I understand millions of animals are killed because of my diet. I don't think YOU realize the fact that BILLIONS of animals are killed because of your diet, and when did you suddenly start caring that millions of animals are dieing?
YOU could save lives of five THOUSAND children and many animals if you dared to change your diet because if meat stopped selling, wouldn't the farms be turned into wheat and grain?
1. I did answer your question, its not eating the meat thats wrong, its the killing which is wrong. Do NOT tell me that even after dieing, being sliced, cut, and skinned is not considered
I'm sure a spear would've helped a LOT in discovering electricity. The wheel was definetly made while stabbing game. All your hunting made was guns and other weapons, which are of course SO GOOD for our communities.
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Face the truth?! I understand millions of animals are killed because of my diet. I don't think YOU realize the fact that BILLIONS of animals are killed because of your diet, and when did you suddenly start caring that millions of animals are dieing?
YOU could save lives of five THOUSAND children and many animals if you dared to change your diet because if meat stopped selling, wouldn't the farms be turned into wheat and grain?
1. I did answer your question, its not eating the meat thats wrong, its the killing which is wrong. Do NOT tell me that even after dieing, being sliced, cut, and skinned is not considered
I'm sure a spear would've helped a LOT in discovering electricity. The wheel was definetly made while stabbing game. All your hunting made was guns and other weapons, which are of course SO GOOD for our communities.
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Once again you fail to realize the effects the need to hunt would have on us. Think about it, if we really needed meat, and we saw that a huge mammoth was a good source of meat, yet it was way too big for one person to take down, we would have to communicate wouldn't we? We would need to organize ourselves and to develop higher levels of thought just to catch our prey. We wouldn't have evolved as fast if all we did was roam around looking for plants to eat.
And even this one particular theory/argument is wrong, that doesn't justify that eating meat is wrong, there have been many arguments in the beginning of this thread that I don't think you have read, that justify eating meat. Right now we are only discussing one particular argument for/against vegetarianism. It's like me saying I won't eat spinach because it doesn't have protein so therefore it's not good for me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-20 at 17:50:09
lol someine just got served....in a peacefull way. he is right you know....you cant argue that point at all!
and i take back *most* of what i said about you earlyer lol jk jk
and i take back *most* of what i said about you earlyer lol jk jk
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Parthx86 on 2005-07-21 at 02:55:47
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Jul 20 2005, 03:26 AM)
Parth, YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION. How come we dont stop animals from killing eachother, yet we cannot kill animals (in the vegetarian view)?
AND, tell me what is wrong with slicing up a dead animals? It's already dead, we are making it useful by well, eating it. If we didn't eat it, some scavengers or such would eat it. And, if it were a mad cow and scavengers got to it, they could spread the disease.
(Mad Cow disease is NOT spread only by eating the brain/spinal cord)
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AND, tell me what is wrong with slicing up a dead animals? It's already dead, we are making it useful by well, eating it. If we didn't eat it, some scavengers or such would eat it. And, if it were a mad cow and scavengers got to it, they could spread the disease.
(Mad Cow disease is NOT spread only by eating the brain/spinal cord)
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Because animals don't think as much as we do.
Well, its still gruesome, in wolf packs, the animals are far dead before they're ripped into.
You are so lazy, have you even researched anything on BSE? at all?!
QUOTE
Only one animal, out of the 35 million slaughtered in the United States every year, has been infected with BSE. Even if more cases we
re to be discovered, the prions which cause BSE reside only in the central nervous system--the brain, spinal cord and other nervous tissue--which are not eaten by humans.
re to be discovered, the prions which cause BSE reside only in the central nervous system--the brain, spinal cord and other nervous tissue--which are not eaten by humans.
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 20 2005, 10:53 AM)
You have a tendency to talk out of your . This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.
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. This, being one of them. Parthx's "points" have been pretty well annihiliated. I was supposed to know your history? Right now, you can hardly consider yourself a country boy. Ooh, you use dial-up, that must make you so primitive and old fashioned! Except that dial-up is, at best, 15 years old. You call me egotistical, without stating evidence, whereas my evdience to the claim is that you support vegetarianism, but hardly put effort into it, whereas you could save animals by planting your own crops, but that gets too hard right there, huh? That's what makes it just a moral high horse over something as trivial as meat consumption. I have never posted with the intention to go after Parthx himself, although i might've hurt his feeling, for which, I apologize, but just because your arguments are petty and self-righteous doesn't mean you have the right to "diss on" me.[right][snapback]266339[/snapback][/right]
My points have been annihalted? I find that all of you skipped over my giant post stating about 15 more reasons to go veggie.
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 20 2005, 12:46 PM)
Once again you fail to realize the effects the need to hunt would have on us. Think about it, if we really needed meat, and we saw that a huge mammoth was a good source of meat, yet it was way too big for one person to take down, we would have to communicate wouldn't we? We would need to organize ourselves and to develop higher levels of thought just to catch our prey. We wouldn't have evolved as fast if all we did was roam around looking for plants to eat.
And even this one particular theory/argument is wrong, that doesn't justify that eating meat is wrong, there have been many arguments in the beginning of this thread that I don't think you have read, that justify eating meat. Right now we are only discussing one particular argument for/against vegetarianism. It's like me saying I won't eat spinach because it doesn't have protein so therefore it's not good for me.
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And even this one particular theory/argument is wrong, that doesn't justify that eating meat is wrong, there have been many arguments in the beginning of this thread that I don't think you have read, that justify eating meat. Right now we are only discussing one particular argument for/against vegetarianism. It's like me saying I won't eat spinach because it doesn't have protein so therefore it's not good for me.
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Wouldn't humans communicate to tell each other places for fruits and berries?
No, I find the only point we come back to is that millions of animals are killed in crop fields. All of the other points, YOU seem to have ignored. I told you guys, plants cause LESS death which is clearly better than MORE death. There's no way that its possible for NO animals to die, at all. Oh, and I believe the number "millions" has been far exxagerated. Not many animals love running into giant machines that make loud noises.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-07-21 at 06:58:05
OH, so mad cow disease, you only get it if you try to get it? Thanks for the information. Now you can delete those arguments earlier about not eating beef because you'll get mad cow disease.
And so, let me summarize your argument on that we are morally obstructed against eating meat: We are more intelligent, thus we should be morally superior to animals as well? Perhaps so. But greed is still a part of humanity, however, and I want my beef even if it causes them cows some pain. If we just let the cows roam free, they'd get eaten by wolves or something anyways.
Besides, veggies dont taste as good as meat, they are more like a nessescity.
And so, let me summarize your argument on that we are morally obstructed against eating meat: We are more intelligent, thus we should be morally superior to animals as well? Perhaps so. But greed is still a part of humanity, however, and I want my beef even if it causes them cows some pain. If we just let the cows roam free, they'd get eaten by wolves or something anyways.
Besides, veggies dont taste as good as meat, they are more like a nessescity.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-07-21 at 07:25:26
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Jul 6 2005, 08:36 PM)
I can argue against that. The teachings your parents have thrown out, are blown out of proportion. Why not eat meat? What's so wrong with it? You state that there are all of these harmfull "Ingredients"
Name one. Seriously, give me one simple little "Ingredient" they add that is harmfull. I can think of one, and it's MSG (MonoSodium Glutamate) But it's a food preservative so it doesn't count towards your argument.
And we are Omnivores like EzDayz has clearley pointed out (Except for you, because you are unnatural. Herbavore.... Lol)
Like someone already said, I have eaten Mushrooms, only once though.
Uh, you still have not answered my question. Do you even know where food comes from. Wtf is a "Factory Farm"?
Have you ever visited a Farm? You can clearely see (in the major rural areas) that there are TONS of room for Cattle to graze. Sure, some are locked up in pens (The young, the sick, all the ones that need help being taken care of) but those are mostly the ones that get milked. After they get milked, they get let back out into the "wild"
Overfeed vitamins? You can't overfeed animals vitamins because their body would reject the massive intake, and only take what it needs. Do you seriously know what you are talking about?
And it isn't vitamins that increase it's growth, it's "Chemicals"
I have to go now, but i'll argue more tommarow. Have a nice day.
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Name one. Seriously, give me one simple little "Ingredient" they add that is harmfull. I can think of one, and it's MSG (MonoSodium Glutamate) But it's a food preservative so it doesn't count towards your argument.
And we are Omnivores like EzDayz has clearley pointed out (Except for you, because you are unnatural. Herbavore.... Lol)
Like someone already said, I have eaten Mushrooms, only once though.
Uh, you still have not answered my question. Do you even know where food comes from. Wtf is a "Factory Farm"?
Have you ever visited a Farm? You can clearely see (in the major rural areas) that there are TONS of room for Cattle to graze. Sure, some are locked up in pens (The young, the sick, all the ones that need help being taken care of) but those are mostly the ones that get milked. After they get milked, they get let back out into the "wild"
Overfeed vitamins? You can't overfeed animals vitamins because their body would reject the massive intake, and only take what it needs. Do you seriously know what you are talking about?
And it isn't vitamins that increase it's growth, it's "Chemicals"
I have to go now, but i'll argue more tommarow. Have a nice day.
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I havn't read all of the topic but I just had to reply to this.
"Name one. Seriously, give me one simple little "Ingredient" they add that is harmfull. "
I don't think it is necessary to name a specific ingredient that can cause harm, just looks at the statistics of today. Where do these cancers all come from? Hmm..Come naturally did they? I think not. The majority of the cancers are caused of what is in our everyday plate. Just look at many product ingredients of junk food, most or all of the ingredients are unpronouncable words.
I mean seriously, Where do all of these cancers from? Mostly from what we eat. Thus of course there is an extremely huge amount of ingredients that are harmful =/.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-21 at 10:42:37
Parthx, read the link on the "Least Harm" principle. Eating Vegan is NOT best for animals, it does NOT kill the least amount of animals, in fact, eating beef and dairy products would kill LESS animals since they do not use combines which kills mice, rabbits, snakes, voles, etc. If you want to dismiss these animals, why bother including cows in your "moral" crusade? They're not intelligent, not affectionate, and just not fun animals. Parthx, if you draw the line somewhere, you can drop the word moral from your agenda.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-21 at 15:32:49
QUOTE(Aikanaro @ Jul 21 2005, 07:25 AM)
I havn't read all of the topic but I just had to reply to this.
"Name one. Seriously, give me one simple little "Ingredient" they add that is harmfull. "
I don't think it is necessary to name a specific ingredient that can cause harm, just looks at the statistics of today. Where do these cancers all come from? Hmm..Come naturally did they? I think not. The majority of the cancers are caused of what is in our everyday plate. Just look at many product ingredients of junk food, most or all of the ingredients are unpronouncable words.
I mean seriously, Where do all of these cancers from? Mostly from what we eat. Thus of course there is an extremely huge amount of ingredients that are harmful =/.
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"Name one. Seriously, give me one simple little "Ingredient" they add that is harmfull. "
I don't think it is necessary to name a specific ingredient that can cause harm, just looks at the statistics of today. Where do these cancers all come from? Hmm..Come naturally did they? I think not. The majority of the cancers are caused of what is in our everyday plate. Just look at many product ingredients of junk food, most or all of the ingredients are unpronouncable words.
I mean seriously, Where do all of these cancers from? Mostly from what we eat. Thus of course there is an extremely huge amount of ingredients that are harmful =/.
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I think a lot of the cancers come from pollution and the sun. I think a lot of the stuff in our food, as long as it's not full of preservatives and chemicals dont really cause chemicals, but I think thinks like Splenda, and all those preservatives might cause cancer. Unless you're ingesting something radioactive, not many foods would cause cancer. You can't say "Oh there's so much cancer, it must come from food because there's no other possibility" do you have any proof? Do you even know HOW those ingredients could cause cancer?
QUOTE
Wouldn't humans communicate to tell each other places for fruits and berries?
I don't think humans would have progessed as fast, you don't really need to form groups to hunt out plants.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-21 at 15:43:54
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 21 2005, 12:32 PM)
I think a lot of the cancers come from pollution and the sun. I think a lot of the stuff in our food, as long as it's not full of preservatives and chemicals dont really cause chemicals, but I think thinks like Splenda, and all those preservatives might cause cancer. Unless you're ingesting something radioactive, not many foods would cause cancer. You can't say "Oh there's so much cancer, it must come from food because there's no other possibility" do you have any proof? Do you even know HOW those ingredients could cause cancer?
I don't think humans would have progessed as fast, you don't really need to form groups to hunt out plants.
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I don't think humans would have progessed as fast, you don't really need to form groups to hunt out plants.
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I agree with you. The only chemical that I KNOW that harms you, is MSG (MonoSodiumGlutamate) and that suposidly "stimulates the brain to much so it kills your cells"
Most cancer is hereditary if you really think about it. Like with me. My family has a history of Colen (or was it prostate...?) cancer, and my moms side of the family always suffer heart attacks.
I agree with you. You don't need groups to gather barries, lol.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-07-21 at 15:51:24
MSG, I think, is more like something you are allergic to. It doesen't stimulate me certainly, it makes me sleepy, dammit!
And as for the food causing cancer... First, I doubt the companies would put in cancer-causing substances into their foods, and second, would foods with such substances be allowed to be sold?
And as for the food causing cancer... First, I doubt the companies would put in cancer-causing substances into their foods, and second, would foods with such substances be allowed to be sold?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-21 at 16:17:54
Yea, I think the FDA has to approve of chemicals like that. They also do long term studies about all those chemicals. I guess only time will tell, like things like Splenda.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-21 at 16:23:49
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Jul 21 2005, 12:51 PM)
MSG, I think, is more like something you are allergic to. It doesen't stimulate me certainly, it makes me sleepy, dammit!
And as for the food causing cancer... First, I doubt the companies would put in cancer-causing substances into their foods, and second, would foods with such substances be allowed to be sold?
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And as for the food causing cancer... First, I doubt the companies would put in cancer-causing substances into their foods, and second, would foods with such substances be allowed to be sold?
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QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 21 2005, 01:17 PM)
Yea, I think the FDA has to approve of chemicals like that. They also do long term studies about all those chemicals. I guess only time will tell, like things like Splenda.
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I agree with both of you, but did you know the FDA approves things that are bad? Like that one diet pill that was recalled because it caused heart murmurs (I dun remember the name) and a couple of other pills that are for your body that are harmfull instead...
FDA are full of humans... Humans make mistakes...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-21 at 16:26:42
Yea, well at least they DO recall things, but it wouldn't really be very beneficial if you had to wait like 20 years to do a study to actually see if the food/drug isnt harmful. Don't independent groups also do their own studies on things like that too?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-21 at 17:22:14
tell you what. cows are the dumbest animal in the world. they have very little nerve endings. they cant see very far. they are easly scared. without humand, they would have died a long time ago. so, yeah. cows are goos to eat also. you tree huggen hippeis should go die cus without humans, there could be no cows on this earth.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-07-21 at 21:16:31
QUOTE(durk-A-dur @ Jul 21 2005, 04:22 PM)
tell you what. cows are the dumbest animal in the world. they have very little nerve endings. they cant see very far. they are easly scared. without humand, they would have died a long time ago. so, yeah. cows are goos to eat also. you tree huggen hippeis should go die cus without humans, there could be no cows on this earth.
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Uhhh..Before we came, there was a working food chain. A natural one at that. It is actually us who broke the nature's food chain and messed up quite alot of things in nature. Of course, if we don't protect some certain animals now, they might go extinct, but thats because we messed up the food chain in the first place. The world as it used to be, never needed humans. I see it this way, Either we start learning from our mistakes and Humanity finds a way to counter all the problems of today or all of humanity should dissapear. I seriously do not think the first option is realizable and thus I think the second option should somehow be done...Because at this rate..We are creating so many problems, we have exploited nature so badly.
Currently, Many of our problems are as follow:
-Population
-O-zone layer
-Risking a nuclear war
-Much unjustices inbetween humans in many places of the world.
-Oil Peak
I don't remember all of them but these are somewhat the main ones. The Oil Peak will cause an economical crash, the population will go Sky-Rocket and thus will need much more food and consumation will go sky-rocket aswell. Nuclear missiles will practically finish the job of earth's exploitation. Either its done a bit slower by us or simply nuked by us.
And really..I think we are the dumbest species in the world. We always have to make a mistake to learn from it. What happens when those mistakes are very costly? Its like when you tell a kid not to touch the fire because he will burn himself. You can tell him a hundred times in a 100 different logical ways but in the end, he will still touch it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-21 at 22:01:06
QUOTE(Aikanaro @ Jul 21 2005, 06:16 PM)
Uhhh..Before we came, there was a working food chain. A natural one at that. It is actually us who broke the nature's food chain and messed up quite alot of things in nature. Of course, if we don't protect some certain animals now, they might go extinct, but thats because we messed up the food chain in the first place. The world as it used to be, never needed humans. I see it this way, Either we start learning from our mistakes and Humanity finds a way to counter all the problems of today or all of humanity should dissapear. I seriously do not think the first option is realizable and thus I think the second option should somehow be done...Because at this rate..We are creating so many problems, we have exploited nature so badly.
Currently, Many of our problems are as follow:
-Population
-O-zone layer
-Risking a nuclear war
-Much unjustices inbetween humans in many places of the world.
-Oil Peak
I don't remember all of them but these are somewhat the main ones. The Oil Peak will cause an economical crash, the population will go Sky-Rocket and thus will need much more food and consumation will go sky-rocket aswell. Nuclear missiles will practically finish the job of earth's exploitation. Either its done a bit slower by us or simply nuked by us.
And really..I think we are the dumbest species in the world. We always have to make a mistake to learn from it. What happens when those mistakes are very costly? Its like when you tell a kid not to touch the fire because he will burn himself. You can tell him a hundred times in a 100 different logical ways but in the end, he will still touch it.
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Currently, Many of our problems are as follow:
-Population
-O-zone layer
-Risking a nuclear war
-Much unjustices inbetween humans in many places of the world.
-Oil Peak
I don't remember all of them but these are somewhat the main ones. The Oil Peak will cause an economical crash, the population will go Sky-Rocket and thus will need much more food and consumation will go sky-rocket aswell. Nuclear missiles will practically finish the job of earth's exploitation. Either its done a bit slower by us or simply nuked by us.
And really..I think we are the dumbest species in the world. We always have to make a mistake to learn from it. What happens when those mistakes are very costly? Its like when you tell a kid not to touch the fire because he will burn himself. You can tell him a hundred times in a 100 different logical ways but in the end, he will still touch it.
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HA HA HA!!!! Population is a problem!? HA HA HA!!!!
Dude.... We already have enough food... Do you know how much Americans waist!?
And let me answer this. Would you have your computer if we didn't make mistakes....? Hmm? Seriously. Get your head out of your donkey and think about wtf you just said. You basicly called yourself stupid, Albert Einstien stupid, Robert Oppinhiemer stupid, Bill Gates (which he is) stupid, and everyone else in the world stupid, because we LEARN from our mistakes....
Where would we be if we didn't, hmm???
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-07-22 at 01:37:47
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Jul 21 2005, 09:01 PM)
HA HA HA!!!! Population is a problem!? HA HA HA!!!!
Dude.... We already have enough food... Do you know how much Americans waist!?
And let me answer this. Would you have your computer if we didn't make mistakes....? Hmm? Seriously. Get your head out of your donkey and think about wtf you just said. You basicly called yourself stupid, Albert Einstien stupid, Robert Oppinhiemer stupid, Bill Gates (which he is) stupid, and everyone else in the world stupid, because we LEARN from our mistakes....
Where would we be if we didn't, hmm???
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Dude.... We already have enough food... Do you know how much Americans waist!?
And let me answer this. Would you have your computer if we didn't make mistakes....? Hmm? Seriously. Get your head out of your donkey and think about wtf you just said. You basicly called yourself stupid, Albert Einstien stupid, Robert Oppinhiemer stupid, Bill Gates (which he is) stupid, and everyone else in the world stupid, because we LEARN from our mistakes....
Where would we be if we didn't, hmm???
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Thats not the point. It has nothing to do with technology wise. We our destroying this Planet and we know we are. We've destroyed this planet radioactively, we've broken food chains and caused many animals to be extinct. We've cut how many trees too?! Before we came along, a squirrel could traval from Canada to the south of the United States without ever touching the ground.
You think Population is not a problem? You know, the rate at which birth is going, in 20 years, the population will have increased in the billions. The more the people, more births can be done at the same time and it goes faster and faster. This leads to more food consumation. And do not think the whole world has food. Do you think all of Earth is supplied with food and we are not running out at all? I am not calling Albert Einstien stupid or any scientist for that. They are the ones who found and are finding out all these problems we are creating with our "Awesome" and "new" technology.
Oil is going to reach its end soon as well, not in even half a century, the oil will deplete. Why are we so stubborn? I think we know that Oil is damaging the environment and killing animals because of the pollution etc. Why don't we change and not use oil? Have we learnt from all of our mistakes then?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Parthx86 on 2005-07-22 at 02:21:50
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Jul 21 2005, 03:58 AM)
OH, so mad cow disease, you only get it if you try to get it? Thanks for the information. Now you can delete those arguments earlier about not eating beef because you'll get mad cow disease.
And so, let me summarize your argument on that we are morally obstructed against eating meat: We are more intelligent, thus we should be morally superior to animals as well? Perhaps so. But greed is still a part of humanity, however, and I want my beef even if it causes them cows some pain. If we just let the cows roam free, they'd get eaten by wolves or something anyways.
Besides, veggies dont taste as good as meat, they are more like a nessescity.
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And so, let me summarize your argument on that we are morally obstructed against eating meat: We are more intelligent, thus we should be morally superior to animals as well? Perhaps so. But greed is still a part of humanity, however, and I want my beef even if it causes them cows some pain. If we just let the cows roam free, they'd get eaten by wolves or something anyways.
Besides, veggies dont taste as good as meat, they are more like a nessescity.
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No, if we let them roam free, they would adapt and evolve, become faster, and grow better senses.
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 21 2005, 07:42 AM)
Parthx, read the link on the "Least Harm" principle. Eating Vegan is NOT best for animals, it does NOT kill the least amount of animals, in fact, eating beef and dairy products would kill LESS animals since they do not use combines which kills mice, rabbits, snakes, voles, etc. If you want to dismiss these animals, why bother including cows in your "moral" crusade? They're not intelligent, not affectionate, and just not fun animals. Parthx, if you draw the line somewhere, you can drop the word moral from your agenda.
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That site doesn't include the fact that while you feed the animals you plan to kill, even more animals die then! So part of the meat-diets "kills" are being included as vegan-diet "kills" just because it involves growing plants that we don't even eat!
QUOTE(durk-A-dur @ Jul 21 2005, 02:22 PM)
tell you what. cows are the dumbest animal in the world. they have very little nerve endings. they cant see very far. they are easly scared. without humand, they would have died a long time ago. so, yeah. cows are goos to eat also. you tree huggen hippeis should go die cus without humans, there could be no cows on this earth.
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First of all, cows weren't here before man, we created them. They were bred from oxen and bulls.
No, without humans they would've been fast, and had great senses. We came along and left them in small fields for them to sit in one spot and do NOTHING, making them lose all of those, because they don't even need em anymore!
QUOTE(Aikanaro @ Jul 21 2005, 10:37 PM)
Thats not the point. It has nothing to do with technology wise. We our destroying this Planet and we know we are. We've destroyed this planet radioactively, we've broken food chains and caused many animals to be extinct. We've cut how many trees too?! Before we came along, a squirrel could traval from Canada to the south of the United States without ever touching the ground.
You think Population is not a problem? You know, the rate at which birth is going, in 20 years, the population will have increased in the billions. The more the people, more births can be done at the same time and it goes faster and faster. This leads to more food consumation. And do not think the whole world has food. Do you think all of Earth is supplied with food and we are not running out at all? I am not calling Albert Einstien stupid or any scientist for that. They are the ones who found and are finding out all these problems we are creating with our "Awesome" and "new" technology.
Oil is going to reach its end soon as well, not in even half a century, the oil will deplete. Why are we so stubborn? I think we know that Oil is damaging the environment and killing animals because of the pollution etc. Why don't we change and not use oil? Have we learnt from all of our mistakes then?
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You think Population is not a problem? You know, the rate at which birth is going, in 20 years, the population will have increased in the billions. The more the people, more births can be done at the same time and it goes faster and faster. This leads to more food consumation. And do not think the whole world has food. Do you think all of Earth is supplied with food and we are not running out at all? I am not calling Albert Einstien stupid or any scientist for that. They are the ones who found and are finding out all these problems we are creating with our "Awesome" and "new" technology.
Oil is going to reach its end soon as well, not in even half a century, the oil will deplete. Why are we so stubborn? I think we know that Oil is damaging the environment and killing animals because of the pollution etc. Why don't we change and not use oil? Have we learnt from all of our mistakes then?
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The Earth does have an infinite supply of food, its called growing plants. And of course there's the breeding of animals.
You act like people don't die. Humans aren't just gonna keep being born and not die. I believe theres 1 person born for each one dead, I'm not sure where I heard that, but it was a while ago so it could've changed.
We got hydrogen cars already planned. And by the time we run out of that, we'll have something new, maybe even a new planet to deplete resources.
QUOTE
I don't think humans would have progessed as fast, you don't really need to form groups to hunt out plants.
Humans still would communicate and tell each other where these plants are. Therefore, they still would've gotten communication if they only ate plants.