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MORE INFO ON This Melee Map!

Just to let you know that it isn't just regular 'ol melee play...
I plan on making it similar to WC3 in the sense that your supply is limited, and you get heroes... (Concepts of WC3, not exact, I'm not trying to duplicate it)

Resource accumulation will be fairly slow, as each base has a low number of mineral fields and a slightly more distant gas gyser.

Limiting Supply (highly considering a max of 80 supply).
Hopefully this will cause more stratigic battles. Shorter battles, and no more freakin' MASSER melee maps. All hydras, all dragoons, all BC's/Tanks (LAME!). Also with the design, it will be a little more difficult to sneak attack from behind their minerals.

Maybe now people will find a use for Ultralisks, Science Vessels, Defilers, Corsairs, and more.

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Heroes will go as follows:

Terran Unit / Spells
Commando (Marine)
(1) Cover: Create a bunker with 70perc life - lasts 60 seconds (unless destroyed).
(2) Self Destruct: Kill all units (non-harvesters, non-heroes) in the nearby area of Marine, including allies and players marine)

Engineer Warrior (Vulture) (Looking to rename)
(1) Craft Repair: Heals all mech units within the area (also some non-mechs).
(2) Psi Emmitter Control - Give all zerg men to current player at vulture.

The Bird (Wraith) (Looking to rename)
Innate: Infinate Energy - Hero only
(1) Drop Mines: Create 3 spiders mines at location
(2) Call of Flight: Summon all offensive self-owned air units to Wraith Hero (including any offencive zerg units player may have)

Protoss Unit / Spells
Psi Wielder (Zealot)
(1) Invincibility: Make zealot invincible for 7 seconds.
(2) Base Restoration: Set nearby protoss building HP (not sp) to 100%.

Assassin (Dark Templar)
(1) Illusion: Create 6 Dark Templar non-hero illusions with unlimited life (not invincible, just always set to 100% life-preserve) - set starting energy to 75%.
(2) Raid: Create 11 Hero Dark Templars (10hp, 45atk each) for 45 seconds for player (unless killed).

Mother Pod (Scout)
(1) Recharge: Set SP of Scout Hero to 100%.
(2) Warp Nexus: Create nexus at Scout Hero (free, set HP to 35%, SP to 0%)

Zerg Unit / Hero
Berzerker (Zergling)
(1) Brood Swarm: Create 7 Broodlings at zergling location.
(2) Creep Out: Create 1 creep colony (70% HP) at zergling location.

Grappler (Mutalisk)
(1) Grasp: Force all unallied men (non-harvester) mid-screen to move towards Mutalisk Hero without attacking for 5 seconds.
(2) Eyes of the Swarm: Share Vision with player 12 and give an observer (force to follow Mutalisk Hero) to player, at Muta Hero - for 20 seconds.

Mutator (Hydralisk) (More difficult to get than Mutalisk)
(1) Spawn Nydus (ownage!): Create 1 Nydus Canal at location with 50% HP.
(2) Consume Structure: Give up to 2 nearby buildings to current player at Hydralisk Hero location (Close Range - CAN take over CC's and Nexus').

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Spells (How they'll work)

• All heroes will start off with NO spells and NO mana.
• All spells will be bought (just like any other "upgrade" or "ability" other units have).
• The ability to upgrade mana regen rate (of that hero) and resummoning (of that hero) will be available.
• Mana Points: accumulation will be VERY slow - about 1 out of 10 every 75 seconds.

More on Heroes...

• Each hero will have certain building requirements before they can be summoned.
• Heroes will be "summoned", the cost is significantly higher than their originals (Marine/marine hero) but not as expensive as... say.. a Battle Cruiser (for example).
• There will also be a respawn death time of each hero (depending on race and hero it will be a long or short respawn allowance time).
• The spawn time of each hero can also be "upgraded" once requirements are met and you have the min/gas.
• All 3 heroes can be summoned at the same time.
• Currently debating whether to have heroes (each one currently being commanded) - slowly drain minerals/gas over time (like an SCV repairing). Will look more on that during testing, see how fast minerals/gas are being mined.

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ALL Advice will be taken into consideration, I have the right to reject any such given advice as I see fit. ALL opinions are appreciated and accepted.

Let me know what you guys think in all aspects, I'm looking for a near perfect balance between each race.

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TESTING TERRAIN LAYOUT NEEDED:
This is only a test.

PLEASE play with your friends, family, play 1v1 against a comp, and see how the AI is, etc.

There are NO doodads on this map yet... nor detailed terrain, this is just a base lay out.

BE NIT-PICKY, be annoyingly anal.

Play agaisnt other humans and comps please, and let me know how everything goes. What you hate, what you like, what you want to see, any places to get stuck?

Please do not massivly distribute this map, as it is just a draft.

Thanks!!!

ADDITION:
Pic Posted...

Alright, yea I know the top part is a LOT of wasted space, however, it's the only size I could find to fit what I needed...

Yes the terrain looks sloppy...

I just want to get the basic starting locations and mineral locations and base sizes, etc, down.

ADDITION:
New Map Added - Just a test to show you guys how I'll limit supply max. Thanks to Deathknight and DT_Battlecruiser. Also, this map confirms that you CAN place buildings at a continually unit location (we know that, nothing special, this just confirms that it works).

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I think that it is the shared opinion of most StarCraft players that StarCraft is not Warcraft in space, was never Warcraft in space, and will never be Warcraft in space.

If you want to play Warcraft, play Warcraft, don't push this crap on us. You probably even used a money map as your terrain base.

OMG WTF is your problem dude?
You have 50 million people trying to "duplicate" different games and you chew me out for trying to use WC3 concepts?

AND If you read my post, moron, you'd find that I AM NOT Trying to duplicate War Craft 3, I am trying to use similar concepts (heroes / unit supply max).

Is there like... negative karma?

Now I check out the map itself, and I have to say that while it is not a money map, it is terribly imbalanced from a Melee standpoint. You gave the top-right so much less room than anything else, and 6 players seems a bit much for that size of map.

Finally, CONSTRUCTIVE critizism. The top base is semi-secluded, and only really has ONE mineral open to them from the begining, just like everyone else (if they all play nice).

However, there are 2 not-so-nearby island areas. Water being easily invaded.
Although I LOVE CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, please test the map before you judge it.

However, one thing that DOES need to be changed on that top right base, is it's ramp. Needs to be a LITTLE more out in the open (too hard to invade that base since cannons might be able to reach to the edges from the high dirt).

It is those concepts which make Warcraft Warcraft and not StarCraft. I am merely pointing out that most people, when they log on to StarCraft Battle.net, are looking for a game of StarCraft, not Warcraft III.

Granted, you are not actually trying to duplicate Warcraft III. But the use of those concepts which are a trademark of W3 makes a game, essentially, WIII.

Maybe you will find a few poor souls willing to test it. I will not be among them. Good luck with your map, and just fix the map itself up.

fatso, dont be an ass, i like this idea, its pretty cool drakiel, you did a nice job.

I think it is a good idea for a map. No matter what you do to starcraft, you cant make it Warcraft 3 so I wouldn't be too worried about it. There still won't be creeps and necklaces and crap. If it is a map with solid and fun gameplay, people will play it. Indeed, this will be a very hard map to balance. Just from reading, it appears the Assassin's Raid spell may be too powerful, but I could be wrong. I remember when I was making Sorcery RPG back in the day, I wanted the Mage to have a spell where a Turret was created at his location to make up for his lack of an air attack. It would always say it couldnt place the building, so I changed it to creating 10 scourges. I was wondering if buildings could be created at locations that are being centered on a unit. This was 3 years ago, so maybe I was being dumb, but it wouldnt work for me. (I assumed that it tried to create the building at the very center of the location and couldnt because the hero is there) I saw you have several spell triggers that create a building at the hero's location, I hope it works!! Let me know if/why I was wrong. Good luck


-bearcat_fan

Like Warcraft 3 Heroes? What happens when they need to repawn? Once you get your new hero, it doesn't cost then it costs a lot more then a battlecruiser once you revive him a million times. Experience? Items? Skill Points?... theres a problem

That is the point of his thread. He is mimicking War3, but is not trying to create a duplicate game with items/individual experience/skill points etc.



I don't get what you mean when you say that, but his idea of respawning the hero and making it cost more is easy to do with triggers.

-bearcat_fan

Read my first post:
Heroes will be "summoned", the cost is significantly higher than their originals (Marine/Marine Hero) but not as expensive as... say.. a Battle Cruiser (for example).

Yea yea for the millionth time this is NOT a duplicate of WarCraft 3... I shouldn't have even gotten WC3 in your heads (Just thought i'd be easier to relate to).
Basically... the only thing the same between this map and Warcraft 3 are...
-Heroes with spells (2 each), mana, etc...
-Slow resource gaining (it's not a "money" map, but there ARE unlimited minerals)
-Low Supply Limit

Supply limit is to make it like WC3 - in a sense that... IT'S NOT FREAKIN MASS ATTACK. Starcraft has turned into a mass attack frenzie - skill = mass attack...
Whoever can get it fastest and puts 'em in the right place, wins!
With mass, you can't really take use of units abilities. I mean sure it's just more difficult to take the time to Irraditate one man when you have 100 on you...

I'm REALLY looking forward to the heroes - and the supply limit.
I'll attach a map of limiting supply momentarily (up in the first post).

This is a just a test map to show you how supply will be limited.
ALSO I confirmed the building placement error, Bear_catfan.
I first saw it with a 4v4location over a vulture - bunker would NOT create - I was like "OMG"... Anyway I just made it a LARGER location, and yea it worked like a charm. Heck I could even make it a 20x20 location, as long as it centers on the vulture.

Thanks to Deathknight and much to DT_BattleCruiser !!!

Dude I meant like once the hero is made, it's free, once it dies, it costs A LOT

The hero will be treated just like ANY other unit you create out of a barracks.
The only difference is... there's a respawn time. That's it.
If you want the same hero back, you have to pay the same price if he dies.

(About Respawn Time... STILL needing testers, not one person downloaded my map yet... once I get into triggering, I'll need more - But respawn time is to ensure that someone that saves 2,000minerals/gas doesn't just.. Summon Uber Hero, dies, Summons it again seconds later - and OWNS a base)

Okay. Now this is starting to sound more like a map that I would enjoy. At first I had my doubts due to the reference to W3, but you've managed to dispell those. Good luck with balancing the melee-map part of it.

How about 1 minute minimum between death and resummoning of your heroes? That should give anyone beseiged by a hero time to rebuild after he kills it.

Cool, I'm glad you've taken a deeper interest in it! I've been considering things like that... I have EVERYTHING on pen and paper, do it when I'm bored at work (when I get a lap top i'll WORK on the map at work ;op). I was assuming 3.5 to 4min respawns on certain terran heroes and 4 to 5min respawns on protoss heroes, and like 3 to 5min on zerg heroes... HOWEVER Depending on how testing goes (which noone has even downloaded to test melee yet), then I'll change it to maybe 1 minute or 10 minutes *shrugs* Depending on how battles go with triggers. For now I just want to iron out what's there.

Thanks again for the tip on the top right base, I never even noticed.

About purple's cliff-top expansion (to the left), you can cliff it from the top temple area... I was playing a friend and that was his last mining base...and I cliffed it from the temple area fun fun fun.

Oh and by the way, what are the teams? Are they interchangeable like in regular melee?

Some players' temple-enclosed expos have larger walls, making cliffing them easier (more space for tanks, bunkers, and turrets). The red/blue one and the white/brown one are sure examples of this.

Everyone's ramps should face the towards the same direction (outwards or inwards). Orange's ramp is a lot easier to defend than say...yellow's.

Purple and teal are very close to each other compared to the other players (brown and white for example). This makes rax float easier from purple/teal.

On the bridge between orange and brown: it's easier to defend from the narrow side (brown in this case). This situation exists on the bridge in the middle leading from the right side of the map to the middle.

I know you said that you wanted geysers to be farther away from the main building, but in the expos it's possible to simply build it closer to the geyser and not the minerals.

I'm not sure, but it may be possible for you to hit orange's gas from the top temple area.

You can drop a tank on the high ground area near the 9 o'clock peninsula to hit the geyser near the middle expo (the one that's on low ground).

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Hope it helps.

WOOT!!!! The first SERIOUS examination of my map!!!
Something to be proud of, Midnight! I GREATLY appreciate this map.


OH *L* Had to reedit this question because I didn't understand what you were saying. I was like "I don't THINK that mini-base temple walls can cliff purple well". But no heheh the top part of the map starting from the HIGH JUNGLE is going to be like... walled. I still don't know how I'm gonna do it yet, but players can't enter that area AT ALL with in-game units.

I'm thinking either... recycle units (current player brings shuttle, give 'em money back and remove it) - - orrrr when they bring a unit up there just plain KILL it - - orrr teleport it back to command center (which might also be taken advantage of as a glitch though...) - - any other ideas for prevention would be helpful.


Teams are JUST like regular melee, there is no vision pre-set, no alliance pre set - it's just an 8 player game and you can ally up at the begining of the game, you can backstab just like any other SC game, etc...


Hmm... well I KINDA WANTED cliffing in those areas... however... now that you mention it, loading up with tanks and goliaths up there (for example) would get pretty freakin' annoying... I won't remove the temple-cliff-islands COMPLETELY, but I'll remove some upper space (so they can only fit a few units).


I like the way everyone's defences are... EXCEPT Orange, which I have fixed just today, also adding a little more "color" with "mud" scattered all over, takes a few minutes to do, but just not done with it - When I do that i'll repost - then later add doodads.


To be honest, they're not much closer than everyone elses, HOWEVER you're right in that... I think that teal's cliff entrance should be moved SOUTH lower - and remove a few bridges to that mineral patch to the south west of teal.



NICE!!! You notice things well! I think I'll leave it though, SINCE orange is the most distant from all other players - he only has to worry about brown when it comes to close distance...



And that's fine to me, I just don't want min and gas to be RIGHT next to eachother, if they value gas more, they'd build closer to gas and further from minerals, and visa versa - - Nice examination.



Hmm, I'll look into that later.



After saying that, I was debating whether to fix that or not... But after thinking about it "Hmm I really don't want ANY base (except the ones near the starting bases) to be destroyed by cliffed units... I'll remove the "Dropshippable" high dirt aswell.



Dude that was freakin' awesome!
Thanks for being the first to do this, it's GREATLY appreciated. heck I'll give you some minerals, like 50... ;op.

ADDITION:
Oh man, have you tried playing with comps? I havn't played melee against comps in awhile, but they seem AWESOME in this map... I think because they can manage their resources a lot better than I can ;op.

No, I was playing with some friends of mine. My SC, for some odd reason, works on and off. I can play from 5-6 PM, 8-9 PM, and 7-12 AM...but no time else. kinda odd, but w/e.

CPUs shouldnt have their skill level dynamically changed due to the map, unless it's completely screwed up, like fastest.

Well, I wish you luck on this. When you are at the heroic part, I'll give you some more balancing advice.

Well maybe the people that "WANT" to play it, But don't have the game might wanna play it...Don't start saying stuff that you don't know...How do you know starcraft players don't want to play it? I know ODD does.

Nobody is forcing you to play it...

I am currently making a Warcraft 3 map on starcraft. It is coming out very nicely but it won't have everything Warcraft 3 has. You should check out my thread =p. Anyways it sounds fun. I especially like the protoss spell that heals buildings. That's pretty origional. Well, good luck.

Thanks pears. And thanks about the protoss idea, I mean it's nothing NEW. To be honest after playing Protoss for so long, using Photon Cannon defences... I ALWAYS am tempted to SELF KILL my own photon cannons - beacuse HP is at like 5 out of 100 - and Shield is maxed.

This way with hero spell, you can restore defences without suiciding ;op.
(With many other uses too)

Do you play on east or west because I wanna try this out!

Since it's real hard to get people to do something small...
(It's better to have 'em test big things)

I'm currently looking to find just ONE person at least, to help test gyser distances - aannddd building requirement timing (how fast each race can get their pre-hero building requirements).

(by the time everyone reads this I'll already have a volunteer, it shouldn't take more than 5-25minutes.

I play on either. Have a name on both. Not on much unless I have a reason to be.

REEDIT:
Yup good to go, so far so good. In case you havn't noticed I beautified the intro page to make it a little less staggering on the eyes.

Seperate on topics, hit key points, etc...

Sorry for posting so much, just keeping tabs for you guys and getting opinions.

I've currently played a normal melee with Shadow Brood and we did NOT satisfy the 80max supply limit (we still got our ***es kicked). Even so, our resources and gas seemed to go up much faster than I wanted- even with 7 mineral fields.

Now I'm debating to whether to bring it down to 5 mineral fields at starting base. And mini-bases have 4 (but then there's the gas problem).

Now instead, I'm considering pursuing what I've been wanting to do for a long time now. Making heroes COST you over time.

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Basic Formula (without upgrade)
1 hero = 1mineral/2sec, 1gas/3sec.
and so on for each hero...

Calculating goes like this:
1 hero, 1minute = 30min, 20gas
1 hero, 5minutes = 150minerals, 100gas
3 heroes, 5minutes = 450min, 300gas
(which doesn't sound too bad actually... that's FIVE Minutes of mining)

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You can ALSO upgrade (each hero seperately) the rate of resource consumption.
WITH Upgrades will be like so:

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Formula (with upgrade)
1 hero = 1mineral/2.5sec, 1gas/3.5sec
and so on for each hero...

1 hero, 1minute = 24min/17gas(approx)
1 hero, 5minutes = 120min/85gas(approx)
3 heroes, 5minutes = 360minerals/255gas(approx)

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That CAN be a last thing I add on triggering, still considering (hey that almost rhymed).

Lt.Fatso resembles Salacious to me. Keep going with your map Drakiel and try to flow with the criticism instead of being defensive.