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I've always loved physics, math, and cosmology. To me, they are fascinating. But the most fascinating thing in the Universe would be black holes. Once I heard my brother talking about magnetism and gravity, I started to wonder and thought up a question:

Gravity isn't that strong of a force; magnetism is stronger (you can pick up a nickel with a magnet which acts against gravity!). So, how could a black hole suck in solar systems and stars when only gravity (or so we think) is sucking it in. Does it mean that if you drop a nickel into a black hole we could bring it back out with a magnet? Does a black hole have a magnetic field? (So many questions! )

Lets start out explaining Black Holes.

Black Holes are the size of a pea(some people suggest that they are the size of an atom but this is untrue). The volume is a pea. The mass is infinite.

Density = Mass/Volume
D[sub]BH[/sub] = Infinity/>1cm[sup]3[/sup]
D[sub]BH[/sub] = Infinity

The density of the Black Hole is infinite. Because the amount of gravity depends on it's mass, the area of the gravitational pull of the Black Hole is quite large. Because it had infinite density, the gravity will be the strongest it can possibly be in a fairly large area.

Now Magnetisim is definetly much stronger than Gravity but Magnetism does have fairly large limitations.
Magnetisim depends largey on the charge that a molecule has. The charge of that molecule can't easily be more than 10 because it will collapse. It will be unstable and just radiate protons and electrons. Also you can't make a big enough magnet with infinite mass to be able to pick up a black hole. It has infinite mass thus you can't have more energy than that.

How do you know the mass is infinite? And how would a collapsing star gain infinite mass? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just merely curious. Thank you.

No, the mass is not infinite. Just very very big.

Magnetism is stronger on average but the fact that the immense power of the black hole will overcome it. If you had a magnet with a really huge charge you might be able to attempt it.

The force of gravity (F) in newtons is equal to

G(((m1)(m2))/(r^2)) where m1 is the mass of the object applying the force to m2. G is the gravitational constant of 6.67x10^-11

In a black hole r approaches 0 as m1 approaches infinity. As you can see the force becomes immensly huge.

not all black holes are the size of peas beer. there are millions and millions of them in the universe. This stuff intrests me VERY much and i have a TON of knowlege on it (i might become an astronomer)

black wholes are awsome, there are to types if i recall correctlly, one with spin and one without.( am talking about theoretical black hole here) the ones without are insanely rare as far as black wholes go.

also on an interesting note if someone were to enter a black whole and survive becuase of the force of the pressure/ gravity, outside the black whole (assuming you could see outside) an almost infinite amount of time would pass before actually entering becuase of special relativity.

This is not about Black holes alone, so here is a post on Dark Matter.
It was discovered in the 1950's by Fritz Zwicky (I laugh every time I hear his name) Regular matter composes 10% of an average galaxies matter, while the other 90% is Dark matter. There are two main catagories of dark matter, Baryonic, and non-Baryonic. Baryonic Dark Matter is much like baryonic "Normal Matter." Baryons make up protons and neutrons, and is classified under fermions, meaning that they have a half-integer spin . This is getting into quantum physic though, so I'll have to stray back on topic.

Dark matter is called such because it does not produce the light that stars do. The only way to detect them (I think) is through their gravitaional pull on objects we can see.

Did you guys hear about scientists finding a "dark galaxy?"

BTW: Rhiom, it was mathematically proven that all balck hole must spin.

BTWW: Non-Baryonic Matter is purely theoretical at this point. Although I hear that They might have found evidence for something...

Actually, no one could ever actually live to even get to the event horizon of a black hole (with technology now a days at least. Maybe in the long-term future; I estimate about 2500 years ). As light is sucked into a black hole, the light's wave lengths get shorter and shorter thus getting more and more dangerous. It soon becomes gamma rays and before you even got to the event horizon you would have been a pile of boiling ooze

But if quantum mechanics come into play with this discussion, please, fill us in. All this physics is awesome!

Are black holes a literal hole in space, or a solid? I'm curious.

Edit: WTF?!?! I MEANT BLACK HOLES! NOT A RACIST HERE! I'M SOOO SORRY! SHOULD I CHANGE IT?!?!

Of course you should change it...
A pleasent reminder from all of us here at FireKame

LOL! man ya you should change it, but I didn't catch it until you pointed it out.
Anyways to answer your question, black holes are (accepted to be) solid. They occur when a massive star collapses into itself and forms a very small, but massive (in the scientific sense of the word) black hole.

This is very complicated! People with weak minds and low mind capacity shouldn't read this. Lol.

I've been doing some calculating and theorizing and come up with a cool theory.
I believe, if you could enter a black hole, you would go back in time the exact amount of time as the gravitational force exerted by the black hole!
Okay, so that sounds like a crock of sh t but I've actually been doing some thinking, a little bit of calculating and thinks its kind of cool.

1. Theoretically, you could never enter a black hole. This is because when you get sucked in time goes slower and slower for you, but faster and faster for things around you (they would age much faster than you as you got closer to the center). Technically, it would take you an eternity for you to actually reach the "end".

2. Time is relative to the person observing it. This is where a part of my theory comes in. I think that not only light gets sucked into black holes, but time does too! This would explain why everything gets slower for you and faster for everything else. It also comes into play for the third part of my theory.

3. When you actually get to the center/bottom/"end" of the black hole you are in a dimensionless plain (0 units high, infinite units long; X=∞, Y=0) that I call "Plain of Time". It’s sort of an oxymoron because in this plain there is no time. Theoretically there is no time because it took you an eternity/forever to get there and seeing as how you could NEVER get there, and if you did (which you couldn't) time wouldn't exist anymore... Basically, time would not exist after "forever" and guess where you are, in the "Plain of Time" which does not exist because time doesn't exist there. Stay with me here

4. Now it comes to the forth part of my theory. If you COULD reach the "Plain of Time" then you would instantaneously be shot back out through the other end of the black hole. "Wait a second, the other end?" you're probably thinking. Well, here’s the thing: I believe that at the other end of a black hole, after the "Plain of Time", there is technically no black hole (just a star about to collapse) because when you go through the black hole, through to the other side (which I might add would take you forever) you would have gone back in time before the black hole was created (or at the exact time the black hole would be created)! I believe that the gravitational force of a black hole is directly related to the amount of time that you would be shot back in time if you were to go through the black hole. An example to help you:

A black hole in a star cluster "Nova Mus 1991" is about 5 solar mass units (SMU). 1 SMU = 2060 kilograms (if you want to know in pounds find out yourself )
5 x 2060 = 10300 kg
Density = Mass/Volume = 10300 kg/0.5 cm³ = 20600 kg/cm³

So now, Gravitational Force is equal to (Correct me if I'm wrong DT_Battlekruser or anyone else who knows this):
Gravitational Constant(G) x (Mass of Black Hole x 1) x (Mass of Black Hole x 2) / (r^2)
= (6.67 x 10^-11) x (10300) x (10300 x 2) / (0.25^2) = 0.226438496
That answer is odd but I think its right, just 10^-11 so I THINK it should be:
0.226438496 x 10^11 = 2,264,384,960 Newtons

Therefore, if you go into that black hole you will go back in time 2 and 1/4 billion years. But I might have done all this wrong, and if so, I can still stick with my first part of my theory (not the part with time travel, but the "Plain of Time" ).
But theories are proven wrong; please tell me if I made a mistake. I can take criticism. If someone can actually understand this tell me what you think!

Well, thats quite the theory...

I have a few questions:
1. Where did you get the gravitational constant of a black hole?
2. At the center of a black hole, why would any direction expand forever? Its the size of a pin, you could see in any direction forever, because the light would always be coming in, but you could not go anywhere.

And heres some statements about this theory,
The reason time slows down as you approach the center of a black hole is because you are moving faster, the forces of gravity make you accelorate faster than we could pretty much imagine, because light itself cannot escape it. When you reach the middle time wouldn't stop. You would not be moving after you smacked into the surface material of a black hole.

You could never enter a black hole, even in some sort of crazy futuristic spaceship, because gravitational force has a very big feild, you would be crushed to your seat, or just crushed in gravitational forces that great.

Okay, I can take that and answer some of your questions.

1.
Although that may be for earth. If it is I have some more research to do. But if not than HA!

2.Well, I think you're saying that you could never actually get to a bottom or something like that (I'm assuming). But think about it this way, if a black hole has gravity everything is getting pulled to its center. Where is its center? Literally, what is in a black hole? What happens when something reaches it center (Does it get crushed into a thin layer coating another layer of particles that were sucked in before it?)? Can a black hole ever actually get full? Since no one really knows, and because its a theory, I can answer your question with another question.

3.Well, about the time question. Again, just a theory. Time is really weird when it comes to the speed of light and stuff. There has to be a point where you stop moving into a black hole, a very center. (Hmm... very good questions. I really have to reach into my thought for these.. )Well, I cant really answer this one... But just think about this question thats been bothering me

[3]>1. If you start at the very center of the sun and travel a little faster than the speed of light to the earth, lets say in 7 minutes instead of 8, would you have gone into the future 1 minute or back in time one minute.

For the question of the back in time: Lets say you were at the sun and it exploded. You took off at the exact time it explodes and you get to earth in 7 minutes instead of 8 (the time it takes for light from the sun to get to earth; it could be 10min, I knows its somewhere around 8-10min). You get to earth and then see the light disappear after one minute. You already saw it explode though. How could you see the same thing explode twice? I know it has nothing to do with black holes but I cant answer your time question.

4.For you forth statement about never being able to enter a black hole, believe me I know that. Its a theory, theoretical! I'm just saying if you COULD enter a black hole. No need to get technical

Ok, umm, well I know that the gravitational constant of the earth is 9.81ish newtons.

And about going faster than light, physicists have come up with, mathematically, a way for light o travel faster than it's own constant. (300,000,000 kilometers a second) The capabilities for sending information faster than light, therefor into the past, can be achieved. But to test if this would acually make things travel faster than time itself, you would need to bounce it back to the original source, and it would have to get there before it left. This cannot be done, so the fastest, anything could ever possibly go is almost twice as fast as light. This would probably require huge amounts of energy for just the transport of one photon.
You saw the same thing explode twice because you saw it at different places. An analogy would be talking on a cellphone to a freind right next to you, they hear you instantly, but the relay time from the phone is slower, because it has to go through the long line of radio towers to satelites and back to your freinds phone. You could never see the sun explode at the same spot though, which is what I was talking about above.
People should really read "An elegant Universe" by Brain Greene. If you can re-reaad it enough to understand the things that happen, its one of the most useful books on physics today.

Black holes are very interesting things indeed.

With all things considered, I will use a quote I remembered someone typing when another Black Hole thread existed (less scientific one)



Hmmm.. I wonder how much mass is actually in a black hole???

^ Daz true, but aren't you an atheist? Actually, I don't know. Black holes would be kewler if they were a literal hole in space.

Well, lets say a black hole is 5 solar mass units. 1 SMU = 2060 kg. So the mass of that particaular black hole is 10300 kg. What I think you might have wanted to say was, "What is the density of a black hole?". Well lets say its the same black hole wit ha volume of 0.5cm. Density = mass/volume, therefore the density would be 20600 kg/cm^3. Thats definately huge and disgustingly crushing powerful lol. (THE MASS OF LIKE MORE THAN 5 ELEPHANTS IN 1 CENTEMETER!)

Would it matter if I were an atheist or not??? I saw the quote and found it funny.. "God dividing by zero and getting a black hole"
Woah!!! That's almost as dense as backpacks that are stuffed with all seven class folders in them!!!

Yes, black holes are very very dense. Just like ath.. erm.. I... you don't see that half-finished sentence .

If you can never enter a black hole, then the black hole won't have any mass and thus it won't have any gravitational pull with which to pull you with in the first place.



Time cannot be sucked into a Black Hole because it isn't a type of energy nor is it matter. Time was created by man-kind to keep track of events, it is purely mathematical.
What you stated doesn't explain why time goes slower for you and faster for everything else. The closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time will go and once you reach that speed, time will completely stop. Time will go slower for you because you are going at speeds very close to the speed of light. To the observer time will be normal because he is stationary.



Having no dimensions is imposible in our Universe because it breaks apart from the laws of physics. If this is a plain 0 units high and infinite units long, you already have 2 dimensions here: X,Y.



Impossible. Once you go to the center of a Black Hole, you will be rushed along with all the other particles since the density is infinite, the force applied to you is infinite and thus you will stay there. If you would be able to go to the past by going through a Black Hole, then objects from the very far away future could instantly appear out of nowhere in our universe and so such things have been detected.
The only way out of a Black hole is by radiation. Black Holse are always radiating energy which causes it's spin to decrease over time. Once the Black Hole is no longer spining, the black hole will desintegrate, probably creating another type of supernova.



You can't apply the gravitational force of the earth into Black Holes because it is not the same.

Again, I'd have to say that since your speed once a Black Hole is pulling on you with it's gravity is not a constant. Once you get closer and closer to the middle, you will go faster and faster explaining why time will go slower and slower.

Since speed is not a constant then you cannot determine time with a simple algebraic equation like the one that you stated. You would have to use Calculus skills like logarithms, natural logarithims, the natural number [i]e[/e], limits, derivatives and you would also have to use sigma notations, since speed isn't a constant.



Alber Einstein proved that you can't go faster than the speed of light because your matter will become energey and thus you won't be able to go any faster becasue all energy goes at the speed of light.

I'd have to say that the theory has been proved imposible by other theories formulated before, that this theory has been used with wrong fact(Like earth's gravitational constant) and that you can't do it with algebra.

I think he's talking about entering a black hole and staying alive.
Time is a dimension, in the definition of physics. Also, you said that as you move faster time would move slower for you... When you move faster in space, time moves slower in comparison to other veiwpoints. Time would not move slower for you going very fast. Only stationary things would see your movements as being slower.
Another thing that has been discovered is that as you move faster, the volume of your vehicle becomes condensed in the way you are going. If something is moving the speed of light, it would be perfectly flat, there would be no length to the object.
Supernovas are the collapsing of stars into neutron stars or black holes, black holes do not make supernovas.
I believe what you mean is acceleration, the change in gravity would increase as you got closer to the center of the black hole. This increase would result in an inconstant speed, but acceleration would be the root of the changes.
It has been proven that just about anything can go faster than light, because we can get light to stop. Nothing with mass can go faster than light in a vacuum. It has been theorized (and mathematically proven) that light can go faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.

Yah Blackholes are awsome.

Still, he mentioned you can't go into a black hole as matter and if what he said is true, then black hole won't exist. Read more carefulle and analize what I said.



You just said it, it is a mathematical dimension used to solve problems is physics. It doesn't have matter nor does it have energy.


You will still have the 3 dimensions. If it's moving at the speed of light it will no longer be matter it is energy and energy can't be measured in X,Y,Z but the 3 dimensions will still exist and apply.


I clearly stated another type of supernova. I know it isn't a supernova but it is quite similar.


As I said, you can't go faster than light meaning matter can't go faster than light because once you go at that speed your matter will become energy.

I haven't gotten much into Quantum Physics, but there is one point I need to bring up.
With that logic, 1-dimension doesn't exist! a point would be 3 dimensional because even though it has 0 length and 0 width and 0 depth, it "still has x, y, z" Also, the exact same shape (or lack of shape) would be 2 dimensional because it you could just classify it as x, y.

To my knowledge, a "perfect" line is intangible and is known as 1-dimensional, and a "perfect" point is not only intangible but doesn't even exist.

Hey, I thought Time and Space were known as the 4th and 5th dimensions. Is this true, or is beer right in stating that time isn't a dimension but merely an organization tool?

x = 0
y = 0
there's your 1D
Perhaps. Prove me wrong, somebody?

feel free to substitute with any number you wish.

My theory has been crushed... Oh well. Also, about the going back in time through the black hole, as I stated it would take you an enternity to get there so things wouldn't really be shooting out of no where. Secondly, for going faster than the speed of light: (you need to think theoritcally for this one)

Lets say you are on the top of a spaceship going the speed of light. You have a flashligh in your hands and shine the flashlight backwards. Now, if the the speed of light cant go any faster the flashlight light would just stay in the exact spot where you turned it on. But since thats impossible... Hopefully... the flashlight light would would keep going backwards from you as you kept going forwards. The speed of light has just been doubled

Kirby: time is a a tool created by man which can be made into a dimension. Time is relative to the circumstances and person, like Einstine said. Burning your hand on a hot stove for only 1 second can feel like hours but talking to a beautiful woman for hours could feel like only a minute. I think time can be fooled around with but phsysics says otherwise. BAH humbug!