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This an idea of mine that goes back to the first time I played Fenix'01's "Blood & Iron: Europe 1870" with Fenix himself. I discussed the idea with him shortly before he retired, and he said while he wouldn't make this map, it would be fine if I did. So I began. The idea has languished for many months (I first started doing pre-production pen and paper work in March 2004 while sitting on a beach in Malaysia) but now I have come to do it again with a fresh look, a fresh view on the idea, and (most importantly) a way to finally figure out those pesky city capture triggers.

Entente: Europe 1900

Features:

• Advanced city capture system
• Technological advances
• Historically accurate units and cities
• Two part building system: captureable Protoss "cities" and destructible Terran "enhancements"
• Trigger-based alliance system as seen in Blood & Iron
• Air units, sea units and land units: all available
• Dual resources: Money (minerals) and Manpower (gas)
• Constant income: money comes in slowly but steadily, while Manpower is taken in every 6 months (3 minutes)

Information:

Terrain by: Montgomery[NN]
Triggers by: Montgomery[NN]
Units by: Montgomery[NN]
Research by: Montgomery[NN]

Sources: Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (Paul Kennedy), The First World War (Hew Strachan), To Rule The Waves (Arthur Herman), The First World War (Michael Howard), The Guns: 1914 - 1918 (Ian V. Hogg), Battleships (Robert Jackson)... and a few others.

Probable Testers: Montgomery[NN], dasquirrel[NN], CPL.Soldier[NN], Sarah_Rose, RussianAirplane, The_Emperor-, and a few others.

Progress:

Not started is grey, partially completed is red, finished is white.

• Terrain
• Unit naming
• Locations
• Unit balancing
• City capture triggers
• Unit triggers
• Income triggers
• Alliance triggers
• Tech triggers
• Testing

[progress]60[/progress]

Current version: Version 3.14 Beta

Any ideas would be much appreciated. I'll post a list of the units and their names in a bit, maybe along with some basic stats.

sorry for the question, but since i never play maps with the "old" city capture system, is this "advanced" city capture system the same as in Fenix's maps? Also, will the cities have varying levels of partisans, like in ACW3? Will each unit make a division, like in ACW3, or just one unit? Also, why not make money as resources? Of course the military needs money, but they cant make rifles and tanks out of them. What are the boundries of the terrain? What are the specific terran improvements? Are you going to use Robotics Facilities or Gateways for cities? Will ports provide income? I've got tons of questions, but i feel i've asked enough for now . thanks in advance

Now this is interesting. I take it you're a fellow Briton?

Once I get back on b.net, I may be interested in testing it.

Is it me, or does it incorporate certain features from the Hearts of Iron series?

other than the technology, i dont see how it bears any resemblence to HoI, unless, of course, you mean the starcraft map, which has a few similarities, but he most likely did not get any of them from SC HoI.

I meant Paradox Interactive's WW2 simulation, Hearts of Iron, or maybe the game 'Victoria,' by the same developers.

Some of the ideas involved are quite similar, such as a manpower system and historical accuracy.

This map is starting to sound like my 75% done mini-diplomacy, 'The Race for Africa.' That had historical accuracy but no fancy city capturing systems.

I did have vassalisation and annexation in my map though.

No, in response to your question the basic city capture system is the one in Fenix's European maps, this one is more along the lines of that seen in American Civil War 3. In all honesty, my system may be more basic than his, because in order to use hypertriggers I decided not to use any wait times.

And no, CaptainWill, I'm not a Briton - I'm a genuine Canuck. I've never played any of the actual HoI games, so I wouldn't have a clue. I came up with the manpower system because I was sick of games with just one resource, and saw that money is no guarantee of military power. A country in Entente with lots of money and little manpower (such as Great Britain) will be hard pressed to maintain their own in a continental war because they simply will not be able to field as many troops (of admittedly higher quality), whereas countries like Russia can field very large armies, but probably with inferior weaponry. And no, none of these ideas came from SC HoI.

At this point, I've yet to decide on the varying levels of partisans, but the unit mixes coming from the cities (at this point) are all the same, but have different units. I think the current mix is 2 Militia, 4 Partisans, 4 Reserve Infantry and 2 Franc-Tireurs. I may decide to change that later on, it's certainly not Holy Writ.

I'll post the terrain if you like, but I don't have a "pure" version on this computersince every one of those originall pure terrains has been added on to. >_<

The cities are actually composed of up to 5 buildings: A Power Station (Pylon), City (Gateway), Large Shipyard (Stargate), Heavy Industry (Robotics Facility), and National Capital (Nexus). Some cities may have up to 2 Heavy Industries (at this point, I think Moscow is the only one like that), but no city has more than 5 set buildings. All the set buildings will probably provide income, whereas all the Terran buildings will probably not. In the Alpha version, each production unit popped out a package of units, but this will probably not be the case in the Beta except for Basic Infantry and probably Support Infantry. Everything else will produce one unit.

Anyway, love to say more but I have to go write my driver's licence test today. I thank you all for your interest.

Hey some of this sounds like my map The Battle for Middle-Earth. I've been working half-heartedly on it for several months now. However, mine is a little different because of my entire "Special Abilities" System for heroes and such. I am, however, still attempting to figure out how to implement some things. This sounds much more feasible than what I have planned.

I actually heard that when I posted about the Alpha version way back in the day. I'll give you an example of the first city trigger. Some parts of it may seem a little redundant, but believe me, I was just fixing bugs before they ever appeared.

Trigger

Description:

Occupation trigger (Berlin)

Players:

¤ All Players

Conditions:

¤ Switch "Berlin" is clear

¤ Foes bring at least 1 men to Berlin

¤ Current player brings at least 0 men to Berlin

¤ Current player brings exactly 4 buildings to Berlin

¤ Current player brings exactly 1 City to Berlin

Actions:

¤ Set "Berlin"

¤ Modify hit points for all Power Station for current player at Berlin to 50%

¤ Modify hit points for all City for current player at Berlin to 50%

¤ Modify hit points for all Heavy Industry for current player at Berlin to 50%

¤ Modify hit points for all National Capital for current player at Berlin to 50%

¤ Create 6 Reserve Infantry for current player at Berlin

¤ Create 6 Partisans for current player at Berlin

¤ Display text message "BERLIN has been occupied by the enemy"

¤ Preserve trigger

actually, russia never had any heavy industries, which is why their artillery was horrible and they didn't have tanks (other than very few import models). If you want it realistic, the only cities that should have 2 heavy industries are Milan, London, Berlin, and possibly Paris (if you're going to include north-eastern france, which houses 1/3rd of France's Industry, but was overrun by the germans). you CAN give 2 heavy industries to Russia, but I would perfer it if you put only one is Moscow and one in either Kharkov or St. Petersburg. if you really wanted to be realistic, only put one in russia, in moscow. here's my list of heavy industries i think you should place:
United Kingdom - London(2), Manchester(1), Glasglow(1).
France - Paris(1 or 2), Marseilles(1), Argonne/North-eastern France(1 only if Paris has 1)
Russia - Moscow(1), Kharkov or St. Petersburg(1, optional)
Germany - Berlin(2), Munich(1), Frankfurt(1), Hamburg(1), Konigsberg(1)
Austria - Vienna(1 or 2), Budapest(1), Prauge(1)
Ottoman Empire - Ankara(1)

There you go. Hope it helps.

Well, dude, I have to have all nations able to create tanks and fighters, now don't I? Otherwise it would be a tad cheap. There was actually a large amount of industrial development in Russia, it was just lost admist all the peasantry. That's pretty much Russia's ONLY advantage. Currently it goes:

Great Britain: Dublin (1), Bristol (1), Manchester (1), London (1)
France: Paris (1), Orleans (1), Toulouse (1)
Italy: Milan (1), Rome (1)
Austria-Hungary: Vienna (1), Budapest (1), Cracow (1)
Ottoman Empire: Ankara (1), Baghdad (1)
Germany: Hamburg (1), Frankfurt (1), Munich (1), Berlin (1), Konigsberg (1)
Russia: Kharkov (1), Rostov (1), Kiev (1), Moscow (2), St Petersburg (1)

These things will cost an exorbant amount, though, so while access is easy, the main role of Heavy Industry will be providing money.

i think you're making a big misake, but oh well, it's your map >.>.

so, if i remember correctly, this map is going to be like Blood and Iron in the way that you can choose your allies, not just another WWI map? in that case, you should make techs for tanks and fighters and bombers and heavy artillery and all that good stuff, with some nations starting with more tech than others.

Yes, it is my map. And believe me, I'm the one doing research here... I know what I'm talking about. Russia wasn't as backward as conventional wisdom would lead us to believe that it was in 1900. However, all the testing and money triggers are in the future - all this is purely hypothetical.

Yes, it follows the conventional Diplomacy method. However, there are six different things that you can upgrade, with two levels each: two for sea, two for air, and two for ground.

Heavy Capital Ship: Battleship (starting) --> Dreadnought --> Super-Dreadnought
Light Capital Ship: Cruiser (starting) --> Battlecruiser --> Aircraft Carrier

Aircraft: Barrage Balloon (starting) --> Primitive Fighters --> Advanced Fighters
Support Aircraft: Zeppelin (starting) --> Observation Aircraft --> Bombers

Mechanised: Field Artillery + Light Cavalry (starting) --> Armoured Cars --> Tanks
Support Infantry: Machine Guns + Field Hospital --> Machine Guns + Field Hospital + Primitive Poison Gas --> Machine Guns + Field Hospital + Advanced Poison Gas

However, changes in the unit mixes are not just limited to these groups. As the technology advances, the "obsolete" units replace more obsolete ones - for instance, once Tanks are researched, Armoured Cars are now built instead of Heavy Cavalry, and Tanks replace Armoured Cars in the Mechanised unit mix. The same goes for the sea units, but not Support Infantry or the air ones.

While the unit mixes do differ from country to country, and some countries get superior units, no country will get any of these technologies at the start. For a country like Great Britain to maintain their a naval advantage, they will obviously have to invest in sea units - just as they had to do to maintain their naval advantage in the real time period.

I hope this is a typo:
Aircraft: Barrage Balloon (starting) --> Primitive Fighters --> Advanced Fighters
Support Aircraft: Zeppelin (starting) --> Observation Aircraft --> Bombers
It would be far more logical if it went like this:
Aircraft: Observation Aircraft --> Primitve Fighter --> Advanced Fighter
Support Aircraft: Barrage Balloon --> Zeppelin --> Bomber

also, are there going to be Light Tanks(such as the FT-17)? in the war, light tanks did far more damage than normal tanks simply because normal tanks were slower. also, i hope you don't make tanks gods like in other WWI maps, because tanks made very little difference in the outcome of the war because keeping them up and running was a major difficulty and anti-tank weapons were developed quickly.

Next: Which unit is the machine gun going to be? If it's a marine, then you'll need to make it a hero and make normal infantry marines. if normal infantry are ghosts, then they'll just outrange the marines. if you make MGs lurkers, make sure they can be killed fairly easily. Also, are you going to make special "Trench Infantry" with very high attack but little or no HP? i think it would make it more realistic than just putting in normal infantry, because then bunkers have limited space and it will limit the defender's firepower.

I like the idea of making anti-tank weaponry hydralisks, which do a nice amount of damage to tanks (and dragoons, which I guess you'll use as tanks) and the such but not so much to infantry.

Actually, Reavers are the Tanks and Dragoons are the Armoured Cars. I simply don't have enough units to put in light tanks (although I considered using Hydralisks). The main weakness of Tanks in this, like Fenix's Great War: Western Front will be their slow speed. Armour on them will be rather high, making them impervious to most infantry - but they'll be vulnerable to artillery fire.

Normal infantry are ghosts, and yes, marines are the Machine Guns. Hero marines are the Machine Guns - regular marines are the Heavy Machine Guns. I considered using goliaths as the Machine Guns, but abandoned that idea in order to have them put in trenches. A rifle was certainly more accurate than a machine gun, though - which is my only justification for using marines. I've used up almost every single Terran unit imaginable, though, so the answer is "no" to your trench infantry. I made an Anti-Tank Infantry unit - it was a hero high templar. I've currently no major plans to put them in.

Suffice it to say, people, all the extraneous details are up in the air. I'm still doing city triggers (about 75 sets of them done, or 300 triggers), but when I'm done I'll get around to ironing out the details.

if you use marines, they won't be able to shoot ghosts when they're in the bunkers. artillery being good against tanks is kind of iffy, since aiming artillery takes longer than maneuvering a tank does. i dont see any other problems so far. keep up the good work!

I know. But that's the price I pay.

And no, I'd have to disagree. In my studies of Cambrai and all that jazz, I've come to the conclusion that artillery was, at that time, the only real anti-tank weapon. It won't own tanks, but it will be somewhat effective. There is an Anti-Tank Artillery unit... I'm debating whether or not to put it in.

Progress: First sets of city triggers FINISHED. That's 88 SETS of triggers... 352 trigs total. And that's just the first step. Testing on them will begin in about a week or two.