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The ongoing struggle between Taiwan and China has been raging on since 1949, the birth of the republic. Taiwan, once known to be a small island part of China, was at the dawn of 1900s, through the chinese revolution, released from China's grasp and gaining independence. But with this, the ongoing arguments and struggles continue. Through the hard-ships that Taiwan had needed to cope with, should it not be the least of all things to at least receive some respect? Is a little respect too much to ask?

Taiwan is not even able to put its own flag up in the Olympics when as China (Oh, Mr. Communism) is able to sue AUT (Auckland University of Technology) for not having their flag around the school.

It's as if taiwan has no right, EVEN THOUGH it is not in any way PART of China. At school, well, my previous school then, half the asians there was Chinese. three-quarters of th remainders were indians, and other cultures and only 1/4 was Taiwanese. Which was only 5. 5 against the ongoing number of 20, is quite a difference. If you were to 'insult' their god,worship, satin (AKA. MR. COMMUNISM) then they would go against you, at full force, say how bad and PATHETIC Taiwan was, comment on how it was small and puny compared to their 'luxjurious, magnificient, rich, powerful.....ETC' country, say how poor you are, and then, at the end of it all, guess what they do?

They come up with full force, and start fights with you. And guess what the teachers' do? They stand there and not move a whisker. Reason? Because by law, if they went in to stop, Mr. I-R-CHINA would go and get their parents to sue the school for being racise, biased, and give the school a severe punishment and bad reputation, and seeing the school it had been, that was quite bad. The paper would go "THE BEST SCHOOL IN AUCKLAND, SUED FOR BEING RACISES AGAINST FOREIGN IMMIGRANTS OF CHINA". China would step in, say how bad New Zealand is, and stop their relationships with NZ.

^ a small thing, made big.

The new act. Terrific. They want us back. "Aww, how sweet, they still want us". WELL its too late, we have our own wills, our government and whatever. And think, why the bloody whatever did we leave your land? Simply because we strongly-disliked (HATE - Just the other term my Math teacher said) your policy.

Oh and guess what, some chinese people don't like China as well, how ironic! (Serious sarcasm, please note)

Anyway, on a lighter note, please feel perfectly free to go ahead and type up your thoughts.

Thanks,

Juk.

What is the act being proposed? I heard a lot of flaming against the Chinese government, but what exactly is your point here?

Hard to post my thoughts when I know so little... maybe you could post some links? Right now though, all I'd end up accomplishing with my opinion is spouting ignorance, which helps no one. There's plenty of ignorance in the world already.

Even if I knew the facts, though, I'm not really connected to the conflict in any meaningful way. My opinion would be just as meaningless, except maybe as a neutrally biased, outsider's opinion.

[quote=jukuren,Mar 27 2005, 02:10 AM]
The ongoing struggle between Taiwan and China has been raging on since 1949, the birth of the republic. Taiwan, once known to be a small island part of China, was at the dawn of 1900s, through the chinese revolution, released from China's grasp and gaining independence. But with this, the ongoing arguments and struggles continue. Through the hard-ships that Taiwan had needed to cope with, should it not be the least of all things to at least receive some respect? Is a little respect too much to ask?

Taiwan is not even able to put its own flag up in the Olympics when as China (Oh, Mr. Communism) is able to sue AUT (Auckland University of Technology) for not having their flag around the school.

It's as if taiwan has no right, EVEN THOUGH it is not in any way PART of China. At school, well, my previous school then, half the asians there was Chinese. three-quarters of th remainders were indians, and other cultures and only 1/4 was Taiwanese. Which was only 5. 5 against the ongoing number of 20, is quite a difference. If you were to 'insult' their god,worship, satin (AKA. MR. COMMUNISM) then they would go against you, at full force, say how bad and PATHETIC Taiwan was, comment on how it was small and puny compared to their 'luxjurious, magnificient, rich, powerful.....ETC' country, say how poor you are, and then, at the end of it all, guess what they do?

They come up with full force, and start fights with you. And guess what the teachers' do? They stand there and not move a whisker. Reason? Because by law, if they went in to stop, Mr. I-R-CHINA would go and get their parents to sue the school for being racise, biased, and give the school a severe punishment and bad reputation, and seeing the school it had been, that was quite bad. The paper would go "THE BEST SCHOOL IN AUCKLAND, SUED FOR BEING RACISES AGAINST FOREIGN IMMIGRANTS OF CHINA". China would step in, say how bad New Zealand is, and stop their relationships with NZ.

^ a small thing, made big.

The new act. Terrific. They want us back. "Aww, how sweet, they still want us". WELL its too late, we have our own wills, our government and whatever. And think, why the bloody whatever did we leave your land? Simply because we strongly-disliked (HATE - Just the other term my Math teacher said) your policy.

Oh and guess what, some chinese people don't like China as well, how ironic! (Serious sarcasm, please note)

Anyway, on a lighter note, please feel perfectly free to go ahead and type up your thoughts.

So my POINT here is, IS communism the driving force for power or is it simply the cause of the country's culture. Since, must you know, in a matter of 50 years, China will take over the small areas of the world.

Thanks,

Juk

After China Gave Taiwan to Japan because they lost in a war against them (note the word 'Gave', unlike HK, which was lent to England for 99 years) Japan declared Taiwan Independence after they lost World War 2. Now Taiwan has no relation between China or what not. Japanese have established such a good economy and now China bumps in and "claims" Taiwan their own country. And because China is such a big trade market, everyone is on their side except America and Japan. The point that I'm making here is that Taiwan is being suppressed by this huge country beside them, and seemed to have taken away every right Taiwan has as a independent nation.

However, note that I'm not trying to be racist or anything, I'm trying to state facts and give people my opinions. Some Chinese people are still nice, like LegacyWeapon or MillienumArmy. It's just the goverment which I think is corrupted.

From past events, you can also see from China's irresponsibility and 'dictatorship'. You probably have realised China only has one political party, due to the fact that the party has so much physical power that no one can stand against them or they risk being assasinated. Once two young people was going to protest against the governement, but they got found out. So they got assasinated.

Another major event is the 'five four' event. Too many University students in China are extremely fed up with the government and their lack of 'diplomatic' society. So they all protested somewhere (couldn't remember). But told all News reporters to stay away. After the event, many parents noticed their children didn't come back. The government said they did nothing to them. But many Hong Kong reporters risked their lives to find out the true stories. Then have taken pictures (as evidence) of bodies being squashed by tanks, hidden away. And there were so many dead bodies some had to be dumped outside the hospital. Its a really sad event. And as you can see, China itself is too much of a corrupted government and all they wanted is take everyone's success and claim it their own. (meaning Hong Kong and Taiwan).

They also do everything by force, Taiwan is officially an independent country. But many China Scholars who conduct tests always say Taiwan is theirs and when you select your country in the test, they always do Taiwan (Chinese Province). This is Absolutely not true. They just wanted to create the common misconception.


China also introduced a recent act that gives them a "reason" to attack Taiwan. They said if Taiwan persists to avoid 'break away' from China, they will resort to force. But the truth is, Taiwan is never part of China! Ergo, we couldn't possibly 'break away' from it. This reason is more screwed up than the major Japan and China war few decades ago. Japan said their men disappeared on one of the China bridges and said they were abducted by the China government so they launched an attack. After all, I'm really greatful Japan and the US is willing to lend a hand if China goes more overboard with its corrupted acts.

The worst reason i ever heard from my Chinese classmate is
"Why do people think Taiwan can't be part of China because its another island?"
I honestly failed to see the logic of that. I have no idea how to respond to that kind of retardedness. The reason Taiwan doesn't want to become part of China again isn't because they thought they were an 'island'. It's because of various reasons such as the poverty in China, and a lot more things. We don't want the benefits of China (if there is any). You would rarely find a Taiwanese who would claim themselves a Chinese. After all, I believe Taiwan should be able to make their own decision of keeping their own serperate identity.

Point is, what right gives China the rights to possess the control over us? They might have, for examples, 100 years ago, but that was the past, and now is the future, if it is for the past that we live for the future, the for Taiwan's hard-ships, in return, Taiwan should stand up for its own rights and go full against China.

Since at the end, you can only depend on yourselves to suceed, guess what America said in all this? Da, da, da, da (American Anthem) "For Taiwan..To get what it wants..It should..Listen to the Chinese. For the Chinese...Will not harm Taiwan unless it response to the act..Is rebellous...But if it is agreeable...And Taiwan agrees to become a..Province of...China..Then it will be fine" You really think that is a great way to assist Taiwan?
"Ohhh great, just don't mind us, we are just here drinking our heads off with this beer or whatever China gave to us."

That's their attiude to it all. And what's more? They go along and say they will step in with full force for Taiwan since Taiwan buys weapons off America. Great reason, but think, CHINA PART OF UN. CHINA BUYS MOOOOORE WEAPONS. Since everybody is self-entred, guess what America will do?? Any guess?? Yes, you there.

"Taiwan will loose to the war and then get taken away by China since China buys so much more weapons from America. And China is big big big big and it is in the UN"

CORRECT. America will desert Taiwan.

I say, china should go to war against Taiwan, their not ing communists!

Then what might China be leaning towards then? Democracy? "Let all to vote", no? Republic..Erm..No, oh I forgot, that's Taiwan. Monarch? Oops, sorry, got defeated at the verge of Chinese Revolution.

Hmm..I'm interested, why do you propose China go against such a small island? Economy? Industrial? Social? Money? Military? Oh boy, you're simply too kind.

You know what dipshit, you can just drink a tall glass of vodka and go yourself.

http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/f...llnews&id=90880
http://english.www.gov.tw/index.jsp?action=cna&cnaid=8090

Not as related, but a Taiwanese shot in China after he argued he received fake money.

http://www.unpo.org/news_detail.php?arg=50&par=2181

China complaining against the US interference over claiming Taiwan. In this link, you can see China has mentioned "reunification" and the way they say it here means Taiwan has a choice. However, what they're doing now, threatening us isn't giving us a choice. Everything just has togo their way. Also read the paragraph before the last sentence, it said something about Taiwan being independent.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0322/china.html

Just somethng.

http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/Politics.../1111629140.htm

Japan willing to help US help Taiwan out

http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=161188
http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=160314

Taiwan anti-china rallying.


These are just a few, it may look really biased, but maybe someone else who stands for China can kindly post some links too, so it may seem more fair.

Ah, worked up already? and it's only early in the morning

*Shakes head*. No need to be so at this time of the day is there? Besides, must I comment how unlogical your comment was?

Please define your term of 'dipshit', such a word of that elegance should be well-explained, and also, Vodka? Oh, sorry, I'd prefer water, and besides, I'm not alleged to drink alcohol, am I now?

Oh and, seriously, I pity the way you are so worked up simply after I questioned your opinion, I mean, everybody asks, it's a way of growth. And fine, if you must, be worked up and what is the 'consored' word suppose to mean? Please provide examples and perfect explanation and the result will be fully related to yours truely - You.

But of course, I am not going to 'consored' myself since I simply do not know of your term, and oh, can you provide a simple example with you being the subject of the 'consored'?

Perhaps they are not communists, whatever they are... maybe you can post more angles of logical reasoning so I can understand you more clearly



If you realised, Jukeren made some very good points. Would China want Taiwan if Taiwan was plagued by crime, corruption, poverty, diseases, uncivilised, and not technolically advanced? Sometimes I think Wolf, you should looks beyond what someone says. Jukeren may sound a bit critical, but he has given evidence or observations to support hat he believes in it. After all, he is expressing his views that happens to be opposite yours. I believe you should perhaps show some respect and comment on it more seriously with 'relevant' content instead of just flaming at him.

Ummm..What else would it be..Er..Dictatorship? Slavery? I'm not saying all Chinese is bad, I'm saying the government. For goodness' sakes, if you went up to the stage and began a new party and started arguing with the current personnel (Who-knows-whom) then you are in serious risk. If you lost, he, would take away your family, make them suffer, and then, get you shot. Isn't that horrible..?"owww.."

China has no right whatsoever to impress itself upon the Taiwanese people. As for communism, I'm waiting to see the benefits of it. Why do you think China and Russia are edging away from it towards a democratic state? Hmmm?

Actually, the Taiwan government offered to combine with China under several conditions. One of them is to have a democratic system.

I'm from China, lived there the first 9 years of my life, and I don't think it's possible. My grandparents (on father's side) live in Hebei, which is a province next to Beijing, and they have no running water, barely any electricity, and their house was the first to have a private phone in the entire village.

With the technical problems even in the American voting systems that occur every four years, how are you going to get more than 20% of the world's population to be able to cast THEIR votes?

It's not impossible, but I just can't see it happening for... ahem, quite a long time. Unfortunately, war may break out way before that wonderful future.

So..*Ahem* you support it?

However cold and callous this might seem, the world cannot support billions upon billions of people. It's up to what... 7, 8 billion now?

jukuren: I do not support the act the People's Assembly (whatever you want to call it) has passed. I think it's a rather senseless step to bring the two sides together. We've reached the day and age where simply launching a million missles at someone does not solve any problems. The expression "you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar" is quite apt at describing the dilemma. Unfortunately, both sides are asking for something that the other one is economically and/or politically unable to do. If China does launch an attack, the U.S. will undoubtedly play World Police, and WW3 will be inevitable. To me, that's just not worth it. At the present, the best scenario is indeed for Taiwan to be independent. Nevertheless, this goes against my overall belief that the world should be one "country" in itself to ensure long term peace, not divided into thousands of political bombshells. Obviously, short term peace is just as important, so my final decision is that the Act passed (it wasn't just "suggested")is very insensible. Also, as neither sides even try to consider the other's in order to achieve some kind of compromise... I deem both sides utterly hopeless. That is, for the present.

aE-Felagund: Are you implying that we should just kill each other?!

I'm saying that something should be done to ensure birth control and a stable population...

There's a reason I'm an only child, and it wasn't my parents' will.

"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure." - Agent Smith

Ummm...Yea...And back to the subject...

I had a post that I think you may have missed, it was the last one on page 1.