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I believe the Universe is an infinite thing. No start, no end. After a certain amount of time of it's own, it contracts and is crushed into one particle. Then, it expands into a Universe once more. This process continues, and continues, and continues. Every time, the events change. So all possible choices of all possible actions and all possible actions resulting from the variation of every action will occur. Obviously, this number would either be impossible to reach by any method of calculation, or simply infinite. Now, this allows the Universe to be self-contained and Godless, or perhaps a God thought up the idea. Now, since in infinity there is no forward or back, technically these are also altnerate Universes, existing on the exact same location in time. This also means that our Universe is quite easily insignicant, and that there's a possiblity for Yoshis to exist in some distant million Universes. Just what I think "created" the Universe, if that term can even apply.

Yet your belief in that God(s) and godesses created and developed this universe is bound to cause much chaos and argument, it is quite possibly the only 'relevent' and acceptable conclusion there is.

Much doubt has been cast on that theory's correctness, TH. There is much evidence from deep-space red shift light spectrometry that not only are all parts of the universe moving away from each other, they are accelerating away from each other. So, strangely enough, I personally think that this is the only universe, and there won't be any more. That's what science currently suggests.

I don't read up on space theories and such, but if the universe is accelerating away from some mystical center, what's in the center now? Just space? Is "space" (space-time?) something or nothing? The universe ends somewhere, is there just "space" at the end of it?

I highly doubt there are multiple universes. It seems more irrational than macro evolution.

Nobody knows what's at the center for sure, but chances are that there's absolutely nothing there. Everything that was there was flung far away by the Big Bang. So unless some matter somehow changed direction, there should be nothing there.

Macroevolution is no more implausible than Scientific Creationism, or the "Earth was created in six days" argument.

God created the big bang. THERE?

If you wish to have an irrelevant discussion, we can do that, but let's do it by PM. So PM me the answer to this question: What created God?

Big bang

I believe that the theory of creation in it's self is right. Both ways. The godly point of view shows that time is a factor and that the universe may in fact have an end.
It is just out of reach for it reachesor the eternity we believe it does. Science is correct as well. There is significate proof that the theory of evolution did in fact occur. Both have proof and both are (not numerically even) widely excepted. The scientific approach is for those that believe in reality. The bible and its story are for those who believe in spirituality. Neither are wrong and for what we know both could be wrong aswell.

The one problem I see coming up is "what started it all". In our way of thinking eventual we think how did this start, what created it. I think that sure the Big Bang created the universe but before that its some totally different thing that we can't possibly comprehend with our view of the world. That's why I think people just say
"god" created it, because a god is something we can't explain.

The flaw in the argument of "the universe is expanding forever" is that in that method, you will never reach infinity. No matter how long you count, you can NEVER reach infinity. If there is a starting point, it is not infinite.

There either is or is not proof.
If there is ever any 'proof' of something and 'proof' of the contrary, then either atleast one of them is not proof but mere evidence, or they are not, in fact, contrary.

There is no proof that evolution is existant.
That is why it is called a 'theory'.

I HOPE YOU READ IT IF NOT NO PROBLEM BUT YOU SHOULD I WILL MAKE YOU THINK!


Well If we say that the universe is infinite EEK! wrong one!

1)i mean if you know that it's infinite it's because You Don't see the limits not because it's infinite i mean if you know it's infinite it's because it must have an start and probably an ending just the fact that you don't see them doesn't means that it's infinite
2) if they say that the universe is getting bigger and bigger every second
another wrong one if the universe is infinite "how can something that it's 'infinite' get bigger if it is already infinite?

i believe that as we know that you have stacraft cd in your cd case the case is bigger than the cd right?...you have the cd case in you room the room is bigger than the case you hvae your room in a house and we can make a big list but let's go to what i wanted to say if there are bigger things then the ones we know
why there wouldn't be something bigger than the "infinite universe"?
if the earth was supposedly created by a big super nova explosion and the gases thing started to get otgheter and all that stuff why isn't the universe that We are able to see why wouldn't it be created that way?
3)but why was it created? and if there is a bigger thing than universe like i said before who or why was that "thing" created and how would we call that "thing" if there is one? how was it created i think we will never know...

4) getting to the theology theory ok God created earth
God created universe
WHOA watch this WHO CREATED GOD?????
eh? who??? or was it just living in a blank space in a real no where? how cana supreme being live like that if they say he created universe and earth hmm?? did he created something before so he (ok this might be funny) did he created something before so he wouldn't get bored???

what who when why how?

i don't know ...

Well, before God created Earth, there was no "time" because he created EVERYTHING! God created time, so that's why he didn't create someting "before"

Lol, but how did "god" come to be. God here is just used as the force that started EVERYTHING, to explain things even before the big bang.

corbo you didn't make me think you made my head hurt from the bad grammar

A quick search gave me this. It says the universe is finite, which makes sense because if the big bang started everything and at first contained everything in a tiny space then it would have to have been finite to start. It's just constantly expanding.
http://cas.sdss.org/dr3/en/astro/universe/universe.asp

Err infinity is now confusing me so I found this link
http://scidiv.bcc.ctc.edu/Math/InfiniteHotel.html

Anyone understand the last part of this?
http://www.geocities.com/thesciencefiles/infinity/page.html

Yes I'm back and I took a chill pill. Sorry Christianity just pisses me off, but eventually I'll get over I suppose. So I'll try to make my additions of comment more on the Opinion stage instead of "Here you go, don't like it, F U!"

The Biggest Questions Are the Following:

What really created us?

Is there really a god?

What created god?

What created the creation that created god? / What really started it all? (yes I know that sounds confusing or repeticious.

Why are we here, what is our purpose?

Are we alone?

What really happens when we die?

Do we matter?

Is life worth living? / Is life worth living if it all means nothing anyways?

If theres a heaven/afterlife, is it existent for just us, or all living things, or only thing that have souls like humans, cats and dogs, but not bugs/insects, and what has a soul and what doesn't exactly?

Re-Incarnation, and are we Re-Incarnated as more than just humans?

These are some of the biggest questions I think we all ask ourselves, but I'm sure there's more, feel free to better word these or add your own to the list if you wish.



A few basic principles that I think are precident on the basis of this existence as we know it.

If there is a God he/she is not infalonable(yeah I'm not the best speller) God can be wrong.

Without Good there is no Evil, If there is a God there is a Devil/Demonic Presence.

If God and Devil Exist, the Devil is not a cast out of god, he is an opposite equal created at the same time as God.

Even God(s) can die, everything does, its part of the cycle I'm sorry, and maybe thats why we don't see any real acts of God in this time.

If there were multiple gods, it is possible for them to become corrupt from power, and if you were that god wouldn't you want to convince the world you were the only god and get all the power and kill your competition, i.e. monotheism.

If Polytheism was the basic principle of the first religions of the world why do we dismiss it as mythology, are we so enlightened or have so much proof to say our religion is atleast possible, and polytheism is just a joke.

Everything has a starting point, everything has to start somewhere, and something doesnt start out as infinate it becomes that way because it every expanding so fast that nothing(at this point atleast) will ever be fast enough to pass it or measure it. That is my own definition because all other definitions basically state that infinate is here now and never able to be caught or w/e, if it stayed at a same point it wouldn't be infinate, because eventually it would be surpassed, so infinate to me can only exist in an everly expanding whole.

P.S. Well I think thats all i wanted to get across for now on this subject til I get a reply and I'm gonna cross my fingers that a certain someone doesnt make it in here, so I don't have to deal with his crap again. :-)

Tricky Topic

I mean, universes just dont randomly create themselves out of absolute nothingness.
So people say God, but the way our mind works makes us look for a logical answer that we can comprehend, and you CANT comprehend absolute nothingness, try to imagine it, your imagine black right? But black is still something. Anyway... What created God? Now people say "God was always there". We cant wrap our minds around that can we?

Nothingness is like when you are alseep, nothing, you have no memory of it, as far as your memories concerned, that time never passed.

So yeh, not sure if any of this makes sence, im just spilling thoughts

alot of realists feel that is what death is like conciousness but nothingness, but that sucks and i'd rather not exist at all

I am looking up things about infinity and I think there are different concepts of infinity. Such as what this said:



Link http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/INFINITY.html

Also why does something HAVE to start from something? One concept of actual infinity is that it's just there. The problem is, is that our intuition tells us otherwise, we see things as a process. Like it is moving. Those are some of the explanations I've been reading when searching about infinity.

Notice in that paragraph I said this:

That is my own definition because all other definitions basically state that infinate is here now and never able to be caught or w/e

Yea well if there isn't a set foundation of which to define a word then you can never get anywhere. Before discussing things with infinity I think a thorough understanding of it is necessary or false information will be stated. It's like trying to get measurements of something but you don't have a standard measurement system.

I think the reason behind people's thinking of infinity as ever expanding is because as I've seen some of the sites say, infinity itself is naturally incomprehensible to our finite minds It goes against intuition.

infinIte ROFL 666 minerals

Um, right we are sharing ideas and theories, if anyone here is going to take anything we say as fact, without anyone atleast saying it is fact, then they are just in lack of common sense, and should be shot(in the foot once for good measure, just to teach them a lesson).

P.S. 666 is not the the symbol of the devil 999 is, 666 is just the hellbeast.

Before you make a statement about God. Try reading the bible or whatever first.
According to the Bible it says that God was always here and will always be here. Its an endless circle. No start and no end. Our minds cant comprehend that. Most of god is a mystery. We will never get this untill we enter Heaven or whatever.

So it says.

And no, 999 is not the sign of the devil. 666 is the number of the beast. The Beast is the devil. (its just 'The Beast")

I made no statement about God. You should try reading my post first. You should probably focus on the part about making this into a PM discussion so we don't go off-topic.

On to your post: I'm sorry, but I caught you in a logical trap. By making the assumption that it is possible that something (in this case God) could always exist, that He has "no start and no end", as you put it, you fall victim to Occam's Razor, which, in its simplest form, is "Do not multiply entities unnecessarily". In this context, it means that we can take that assumption that it's possible that God "has always been and always will be" and apply it to the universe itself. So, we can "slice" out the idea of God and say that the universe has always been and always will be. But this is only as long as you make the aforementioned assumption, which you are required to do because you are a Christian, and you believe what the Bible says. Now, Occams' Razor is not always right but by applying it we have been able to make the great scientific advances you see today. The computer on which you type out your response to this was made with logic and critical thinking, not hope and faith. And that's why I see no reason that faith has any scientific credibility. Which is not to say that you're wrong, as it is certainly a possibility that God created the universe. But unlike you, I'm not going to claim that he did as if I know, because I don't. And until you come up with better evidence than your "He just has always existed" argument, you're going to have a hard time convincing anybody.

Ok so let's act like god created everything blah blah blah
and god was always and will always be here i can buy the will always but...if god was always here who brought him here? and if he created "all" that means that if he was here before he created that "all" and there was nothing....well....what was he doing? if there was nothing or did god appeared in 1 milisecond and in the next 0.0000001 milisecond after he started creating "ALL" or did his creation and him started at the same time and if god got here first and there was nothing...how was god here if there was nothing?