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Well, I'm somewhat annoyed over this whole thing. Not because I fell for clokr's 4/1 joke (I shoulda known better... or rather I did, but...), but because you guys think it's only a joke in the first place. Honestly, I can't think of anything that could breathe new life into the mapping community more than modding over regular bnet. But of course, I'm sure some of you can guess that easily enough.

So my question is: What would it take? From what I understand:

• Knowledge of where Starcraft keeps it's stuff in memory.
• Maps containing the modded data, and the program function to detect it while it's downloading (not too hard, I think).
• Recognition of the moment a game is loaded, to know when to add the modded data (and when the game ends, to know when to revert).
• Having the program installed and running.
• Some function to auto-boot or warn players without the program when they join your game that it's needed.
• A way to keep track of Starcraft memory data dynamically (that, or continuous program updates when new SC patches come out).

It would take some work, for sure, and there'd have to be a good incentive for people to WANT to use the program enough to ensure it gets used (like, oh I dunno, A&O?) but I don't see why this has to be just another April fools joke.

Discuss.

If this could be done, it would be like... StarCraft 1.5! Mods DOWNLOADABLE over Battle.Net? CUSTOM MODDED MAPS?

But... what about Blizzard's big bad legal squad? Is it legal to modify StarCraft over B.net?

Well, technically it's not legal to make 3rd party editors, either. I figure as long as it doesn't cause a problem for them, I don't see why they should make an issue out of it. Especially if it brings new life and interest to the game. If they did then, it would be like shooting themselves in the foot.

ADDITION:
Well the impression I get from talking to people is that while its no doubt possible, it would be difficult. It would be literally reengineering the game in the clumsiest way possible, for the sole purpose of doing things you could do in a heartbeat with a stand alone game.

The only possible reason I can think of to do something like this is because, unlike a new stand alone game, Starcraft comes with its own fan base and online community, thus guaranteeing an audience. However, judging by how people seem think this is more of a funny april fools joke than a real possibility, I wonder just how much something like this would really even be used? I suspect, like how most other things turn out, that everyone will just get scared off by the new concept, and it'll all go to waste. In which case, it would probably be no different (or even worse) than doing a stand-alone game to achieve effects beyond the limits of SC (not to mention making a new game would be a lot easier anyway).

i dont think it would be that hard, though i only know a tiny bit abotu programming.(nothing about SC language, and how it works.).

i think you just needa change the file it read from, by having another file handy, somwhere else, so it moves it over into the originals places and puts the original somehwer eelse. when you are done it puts it back.
still though, SC might not accept that, you chanigng files in B.net.

i still think its possible though.

ADDITION:
well not really, but i felt liek putting "addition".

i might be wrong on all of this, because ive never seen the SC engine, but i know how to open files and creat them.

I was thinking about all of this my self how to work this all out so we can make this happen. and well I wanna Start a Dev team to make this so if any one wants to join add me to aim-yahoo or waht ever all my contacts are ZephyrTC, i mainly check Aim tho. So if you guys wanna see this happen add me and ill keep some ppl in contact for beta tests and programming help... Tux ill need you to help me keep the project running =) lol

For this i am putting all my major maps on hold just to help the whole SC community so come on guys lets do this

I could help with



What I do have in mind is to modify a piece of code in a map that disallows regular Starcraft players from creating or joining, but will allow the one with the program to create and join. I don't know if it can easily be done or not though. If anyone actually wants to attempt the program, you might want to talk to the people at samods.org.

it isnt that hard, just check if they have the program... jut lie kcheck if the program is running. you could start a check is a directory they specified. i dont recommend checking thier whole computer though....

also, dotn ask me to maek the program.

you know where SC keeps it's "memeory" while running?

though, i dont think B.Net would support this, theyed have to change it or else the program would have to connect to the server too, and i dunno anything about B.Net.

i was thinking for the check for the program as they enter waiting room the server program (the Host's program) attempts to connect to the other programs by a code let out from the other into the chat as they enter (ex: ZephyrTC: AM 2D6K43S) that encyrpts the user's IP so no one other then auto modder can read it for security purposes of course. having the ip the server can send needed files to the recievers for play.

I think if someone made use of this to its fullest to start off with, something that would make the general B.net population go apeshit to be able to play it, more people would take use of this and itd catch on faster. And as a whole I think this program WOULD revolutionize SC as we play it today, the possiblities would be almost endless with the creative people we have now, Ive been modding for years now and if Someone does attempt to make this I would glady offer any knowledge I can to see this thing through.

How hard is modding starcraft though? Can the average mapper do it, or would this be like something only the most elite mappers would delve into?

its acually really easy its kinda like changing the unit properties in map but u got like alot more options

I make SC maps... I stop there, thats where i draw the line, mostly becuz i can't do anything else. So I cannot help you here, but i can see this revolutionizing SC... But it would no longer be SC, and I'd have to learn how to mod in order to make good maps.

alright think about the programmers of the programs like arsenal III. make the program into a map editor. that would be really sweet because i could picture it right now. Go into unit settings, open a marine setting and change his gunfire to killing a zealot which actually hurts another enemy. and you could put dropships as hover vehicles over water. that is what a perfect modder should be.

Thats a great idea ill have to look into that later maybe SI could help us with the Map Editor portion.

still thinking on the language to program in tho looking really hard to c++ but i may have to go more advanced into my studies with it but im sure its the perfect language

edit: of to bed i need sleep for a big day tomarrow

The biggest challenge would be replacing the data in memory. I don't have any experience with disassembling programs, but we would almost certainly need to learn some things from the exe itself.

SC reads files from archives in hierarchial order. Whenever it needs to read a file, it looks in patch_rt first, then broodat, then stardat. When you're reading a map, the map gets tacked onto the end of this list. There are linked list pointers in the struct that storm uses to keep track of archives. If we could simply rearrange these so that the map came first, it should load everything out of the map file. The only question is whether or not SC loads most of its data at startup or when a map is played.

run stormwatch, then you will see what is loaded when (IE 95% of data is loaded during SC start, and other 5% is dynamicly loaded during gameplay)

Where can I get stormwatch?

Another idea of mine would be to make a mod that loads mods. i dunno how i would beable to do this but it could be possible but very very hard maybe harder then a seperate program.

so i need to know when itcomes to this.

- A 3rd party SC that loads the mods
or
- A seperate program that sends the information

and people please contact me if you would like to help i need some more programmers and debuggers to help with this i know i cant do this alone i wont lie and say i could

Couldn't we let it load from the normal places (path_rt, broodat, stardat) then inject the mods overwriting the memory?

I could help, but I only know VB

ZephyrTC, you are planning to attempt such a project? Well there's no way you can just mod starcraft to take files from a map. It would have to be a separate file.

hm...so SC reads stuff in a order sthat the map is last. of course, the program would be doing before it loaded the map? it isnt active during the game, jsut when you are liek wating for peopel to come.
it would have to replace all those files then put them back after you are done.

Well we need someone who does know disassembling for the memory portion. My thoughts are that even with new SC patches, the parts of SC's memory that get moved around would still be identifyable by unique signatures or headings. Then simply finding those headings within the section of memory allotted for SC itself would allow the program to work with any patch (as long as the headings don't change)... if that makes sense. I really don't know as much as I should about this kinda stuff though, so fat help I am.

As for where the modding data will be, my other thought is that it would be included with the maps themselves, and read by the external program (the instant the new map is detected in the download folder, and if it contains mod data). MPQ files are basically archives anyway, so you could put all kinds of crap in them.

Clokr sent me a copy of proedit once in a map over bnet, for instance.

Another thing, any modding that you do has to get into the map file. Sprites, .dats, everything. Presents two problems

1) CAN we get them in there?
2) Will the space the file takes up be heavily changed. SUch as a map that is normally 20 KB be turned to 100?

You'd have to take that into consideration, and if possible, don't put in the files that aren't edited. Also, if you do load the map first, will it be overwritten by the data in the .mpq files?


And also, I doubt Blizzard will care. I mean, they're so busy with their WoW, they barely update SC anymore. I dunno though. I'd be happy to help, but I don't know of anything I can do.

Exactly lol Well Yes I am going to attempt for this project still debating on theprogramming language.


but for the sad news. i will be gone for a week for my vision is getting worse from playing too much games and programming on the pc so i will not be here for a while. now i beileve i have a blind spot in my right eye so during the week i hope to visit the eye ppls to help me out. i hope its like dirt or something but i see nothing in the mirror.


But Please Post ideas and PM me with ideas and stuff i will of course be planning for this on my return as a #1 project (after school work (i get to program for a math project! woot)) and ill be righting ideas and keeping them on paper for share when i return.


please PM or E-mail me at Zyphyr@gmail.com maybe i can get on the pc for like 5 minutes a day or like 30 minutes on wednesday. im just trying to keep my vision so i can see who owns me in SC =P peace all and keep mapping alive i dont wanna come back to a server not found link =P lol

Shmeeps, you can put ANYTHING in an MPQ. Starcraft will only read the stuff it recognizes, and the rest just gets ignored. You could hold mod data easily, and have the external program read it when it detects the file in the Downloads folder. No biggie. MPQs also compress stuff as I'm aware, similar to zip archives, so unless you're adding large graphics or sound data, the size shouldn't increase too substantially.

Shoot, if only I had a place to begin to learn about disassembling. SI, would you happen to have a link to that Stormtracker thing you mentioned?