Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-05-07 at 17:25:05
Old maps don't get played anymore because all maps get boring after a while. New maps have new Trigger Systems and special effects which make old maps obsolete.
Also basing your evidence that good maps on Starcraft not lasting on B.net. B.net isn't everything to Map Making.
You don't see many large scale RPG's on B.net because those maps take a very long time to download on B.net and way more than 2 hours to play.
B.net is a place where people want to play a fast game which ocupies them without getting bored. Defense and Madness dominate the B.net UMS Community (Not the UMS Mapmaking Community), because each game is different because human players act differently.
Now in RPG's you play against the computer which unless told so, will always be the same.
I also have no interest in RPG's because they are boring. Just hacking and slashing and getting to your objective is boring. It's the same idea in all of them. Once you finish an RPG map, thats it and you won't play it againg because it's going to be the exact same thing.
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.
These "RPG's" which we call should be called Pre-Set Game because the mapmaker makes it so that in order to win, you have to do some Pre-Set objectives which will always be the same.
A true RPG is different everytime you play it, just like Defense and Madness games and thats why they are the type of map most widely played on B.net. In a true RPG, different scenarios will appear each time that you play and you can interact with NPC's. If you haven't tried to do this then you aren't trying to make "Pre-Set Games" the dominating map type.
Now I on the other hand, am making the first step for this true RPG. It's not a true RPG nor a "Pre-Set Game" but it's halfway in between. It's still in it's Pre-Beta stages and it won't be finished anytime soon but here is why this is the first large step towards a true RPG.
1) I plan on having different scenarios everytime that you play in different orders. By using a Complex Random Trigger System linked to different Pre-Set scenarios, the map will always be different.
2) NPC interaction. Although you don't interact directly with the NPC's, you do so in an indirect way. Based on if you complete a mission or not, NPC's will talk to you in a different way and you will recieve different bonuses. Depending on wether or not you succed or fail a mission, these bonuses and speach will affect future interaction for the rest of the game. Meaning that if you succed your first mission and fail your second, the NPC's will act better towards you than if you failed both of them.
These two factors will be the first big step towards a true RPG. Yes my map have Pre-Set main misssions, but it also has side missions which appear at random and depending on your succes or failure, NPC's will act different towards you which past performances will last toward the entire game making a whole web of triggers and switches to make all the interactions.
Now what else is needed to finish the staircase to a true RPG will be complete Character Interactions. This means that if an NPC talks to you, you can talk back to him and depending on what you said back, you will get a different reaction. We all know that Starcraft doesn't have the capability to read text like Warcraft III does, but a nice solution would eb to use a Talking system similar to that of Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 1.
Now a player choosing his order of which quest should be done first or if at all do do it is very important in an RPG and this can be done using a Complex System of Switches that will tell what missions are to be done, done or any other action that will affect that.
Another important issue is Random Missions. No longer would we get the same mission from the old man under the tree to kill a monster. Every time we speak to him we would now get a different mission to kill a monster, recue an NPC or find a lsot artifact.
The day all these 3 systems are implemented into one map to complement each system is the day the first True Starcraft UMS Role Playing Game is born. It will take over one thousand triggers to complete such a Complex RPG system liek that into a map but the result will be well worth it.
Also basing your evidence that good maps on Starcraft not lasting on B.net. B.net isn't everything to Map Making.
You don't see many large scale RPG's on B.net because those maps take a very long time to download on B.net and way more than 2 hours to play.
B.net is a place where people want to play a fast game which ocupies them without getting bored. Defense and Madness dominate the B.net UMS Community (Not the UMS Mapmaking Community), because each game is different because human players act differently.
Now in RPG's you play against the computer which unless told so, will always be the same.
I also have no interest in RPG's because they are boring. Just hacking and slashing and getting to your objective is boring. It's the same idea in all of them. Once you finish an RPG map, thats it and you won't play it againg because it's going to be the exact same thing.
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.
These "RPG's" which we call should be called Pre-Set Game because the mapmaker makes it so that in order to win, you have to do some Pre-Set objectives which will always be the same.
A true RPG is different everytime you play it, just like Defense and Madness games and thats why they are the type of map most widely played on B.net. In a true RPG, different scenarios will appear each time that you play and you can interact with NPC's. If you haven't tried to do this then you aren't trying to make "Pre-Set Games" the dominating map type.
Now I on the other hand, am making the first step for this true RPG. It's not a true RPG nor a "Pre-Set Game" but it's halfway in between. It's still in it's Pre-Beta stages and it won't be finished anytime soon but here is why this is the first large step towards a true RPG.
1) I plan on having different scenarios everytime that you play in different orders. By using a Complex Random Trigger System linked to different Pre-Set scenarios, the map will always be different.
2) NPC interaction. Although you don't interact directly with the NPC's, you do so in an indirect way. Based on if you complete a mission or not, NPC's will talk to you in a different way and you will recieve different bonuses. Depending on wether or not you succed or fail a mission, these bonuses and speach will affect future interaction for the rest of the game. Meaning that if you succed your first mission and fail your second, the NPC's will act better towards you than if you failed both of them.
These two factors will be the first big step towards a true RPG. Yes my map have Pre-Set main misssions, but it also has side missions which appear at random and depending on your succes or failure, NPC's will act different towards you which past performances will last toward the entire game making a whole web of triggers and switches to make all the interactions.
Now what else is needed to finish the staircase to a true RPG will be complete Character Interactions. This means that if an NPC talks to you, you can talk back to him and depending on what you said back, you will get a different reaction. We all know that Starcraft doesn't have the capability to read text like Warcraft III does, but a nice solution would eb to use a Talking system similar to that of Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 1.
Now a player choosing his order of which quest should be done first or if at all do do it is very important in an RPG and this can be done using a Complex System of Switches that will tell what missions are to be done, done or any other action that will affect that.
Another important issue is Random Missions. No longer would we get the same mission from the old man under the tree to kill a monster. Every time we speak to him we would now get a different mission to kill a monster, recue an NPC or find a lsot artifact.
The day all these 3 systems are implemented into one map to complement each system is the day the first True Starcraft UMS Role Playing Game is born. It will take over one thousand triggers to complete such a Complex RPG system liek that into a map but the result will be well worth it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2005-05-07 at 17:36:59
Wow, this is amazing. I congratulate you on coming up with something so great and original. If you do finish this map, it will own all of battle.net. I really like this idea, and i really hope you do/finish this very long map.
You should have a section of the map where there are 3 beacons and a civ.
1 is labeled 'yes'
1 is labeled 'no'
1 is labeled 'maybe later'
Nice job on this, i agree with you completely.
You should have a section of the map where there are 3 beacons and a civ.
1 is labeled 'yes'
1 is labeled 'no'
1 is labeled 'maybe later'
Nice job on this, i agree with you completely.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kingra on 2005-05-07 at 17:49:19
Very interesting. You look at an RPG a way I never thought it would be looked at. This is indeed going to become one of the best "True RPG" maps ever.
Really though, most people don't do these things because they know it will take very long to produce, and a lot of thinking and planning. If you finish this map, I will know you always as a True RPG Creator.
Really though, most people don't do these things because they know it will take very long to produce, and a lot of thinking and planning. If you finish this map, I will know you always as a True RPG Creator.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by scwizard on 2005-05-07 at 17:57:09
I quite enjoy playing hack and slash RPGs. I had a lot of fun playing an old unrigged (but easy) special forces this morning...
I also like making hack and slash RPGs, you get to make cool looking stuff, and make fun new systems, (such as how the outpost RPG stat point system was "new" at a time). I really liked developing my hit point system, and I hope my mage spells will wow the audiance.
I think that you should have made traditional Bnet 'RPGs.' I think that you would have contributed a lot to the map making community.
However I think the idea of a true RPG is really cool. I think becuase of it's complexity and it's required length, it would be difficult to develop a multiplayer verson (but if anyone can do it you can). I also think that "true RPGs" might not work out on Bnet, becuase people will often have to leave after the first hour or so. The huge amount of triggers and such might cause lag. They are slow to download, etc. I think TT's idea of making a two player game is a good one. Although the project your working on is the complete oppositie of his "RUSH" map.
What you have in mind is pretty much exactly what I had planned for "The Seasons RPG Spring." Which will be single player (and will come out a really long time from now, think 2006 at least). I don't think I could tackle something like this for a multiplayer map.
Don't worry, I know what a true RPG is. So Spring won't be another action adventure game saying it's "revolutionary" when it's the same each time you play it.
I also like making hack and slash RPGs, you get to make cool looking stuff, and make fun new systems, (such as how the outpost RPG stat point system was "new" at a time). I really liked developing my hit point system, and I hope my mage spells will wow the audiance.
I think that you should have made traditional Bnet 'RPGs.' I think that you would have contributed a lot to the map making community.
However I think the idea of a true RPG is really cool. I think becuase of it's complexity and it's required length, it would be difficult to develop a multiplayer verson (but if anyone can do it you can). I also think that "true RPGs" might not work out on Bnet, becuase people will often have to leave after the first hour or so. The huge amount of triggers and such might cause lag. They are slow to download, etc. I think TT's idea of making a two player game is a good one. Although the project your working on is the complete oppositie of his "RUSH" map.
What you have in mind is pretty much exactly what I had planned for "The Seasons RPG Spring." Which will be single player (and will come out a really long time from now, think 2006 at least). I don't think I could tackle something like this for a multiplayer map.
Don't worry, I know what a true RPG is. So Spring won't be another action adventure game saying it's "revolutionary" when it's the same each time you play it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DoomGaze on 2005-05-07 at 18:26:42
Hm...But the way you put it, wouldn't RPGs on game consoles be considered psuedo RPGs as well? RPGs now are called RPGs due to the turn-based battle systems. In a game where you control the complete outcome of the game, that's what we call RPs. Of course, calling it an RP game, it would be known as an RPG. I suppose it's the abbreviations that link the two types of games, but I still draw a line on that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-05-07 at 18:28:11
QUOTE
Wow, this is amazing. I congratulate you on coming up with something so great and original. If you do finish this map, it will own all of battle.net. I really like this idea, and i really hope you do/finish this very long map.
You should have a section of the map where there are 3 beacons and a civ.
1 is labeled 'yes'
1 is labeled 'no'
1 is labeled 'maybe later'
Nice job on this, i agree with you completely.
You should have a section of the map where there are 3 beacons and a civ.
1 is labeled 'yes'
1 is labeled 'no'
1 is labeled 'maybe later'
Nice job on this, i agree with you completely.
As I said, my map will not be a 100% True RPG in the terms that I stated. It will be at about 50% True RPG. Using a beacon system like that is a good idea and pretty simple for average mapmakers.
But the more advanced and impresive idea, like the one in KoToR is something like this:
NPC: What do you think about my weapon?
Then a list of choices appear:
1) It is great, I like it.
2) [Lie] It is great, I like it.
3) I've seen better
4) It sucks.
You would then use a system to choose which one, dropship system would be nice. Do remember that the example I posted looks more like a menu system. There could be whole paragraphs to choose from. If this is done, a very big number of switches/death counts is to be used, but it can be numbered down like this:
1) Have a specific number of switches used for while a conversation, this will determine how the conversation will go.
2) Then have another set of switches for each NPC. This will determine the attitude that the NPC will have towards you.
QUOTE
Very interesting. You look at an RPG a way I never thought it would be looked at. This is indeed going to become one of the best "True RPG" maps ever.
Really though, most people don't do these things because they know it will take very long to produce, and a lot of thinking and planning. If you finish this map, I will know you always as a True RPG Creator.
Really though, most people don't do these things because they know it will take very long to produce, and a lot of thinking and planning. If you finish this map, I will know you always as a True RPG Creator.
Well, my map isn't near finished. I've done prettu much everythign except fix the vast amount of bugs and finish the Random Missions. I have already made the Random Triggers to link the scenarios. I have yet to link the scenarios or create the scenarios. My map won't be done until late summer of even later.
QUOTE
I quite enjoy playing hack and slash RPGs. I had a lot of fun playing an old unrigged (but easy) special forces this morning...
I also like making hack and slash RPGs, you get to make cool looking stuff, and make fun new systems, (such as how the outpost RPG stat point system was "new" at a time). I really liked developing my hit point system, and I hope my mage spells will wow the audiance.
I think that you should have made traditional Bnet 'RPGs.' I think that you would have contributed a lot to the map making community.
However I think the idea of a true RPG is really cool. I think becuase of it's complexity and it's required length, it would be difficult to develop a multiplayer verson (but if anyone can do it you can). I also think that "true RPGs" might not work out on Bnet, becuase people will often have to leave after the first hour or so. The huge amount of triggers and such might cause lag. They are slow to download, etc. I think TT's idea of making a two player game is a good one. Although the project your working on is the complete oppositie of his "RUSH" map.
What you have in mind is pretty much exactly what I had planned for "The Seasons RPG Spring." Which will be single player (and will come out a really long time from now, think 2006 at least). I don't think I could tackle something like this for a multiplayer map.
Don't worry, I know what a true RPG is. So Spring won't be another action adventure game saying it's "revolutionary" when it's the same each time you play it.
I also like making hack and slash RPGs, you get to make cool looking stuff, and make fun new systems, (such as how the outpost RPG stat point system was "new" at a time). I really liked developing my hit point system, and I hope my mage spells will wow the audiance.
I think that you should have made traditional Bnet 'RPGs.' I think that you would have contributed a lot to the map making community.
However I think the idea of a true RPG is really cool. I think becuase of it's complexity and it's required length, it would be difficult to develop a multiplayer verson (but if anyone can do it you can). I also think that "true RPGs" might not work out on Bnet, becuase people will often have to leave after the first hour or so. The huge amount of triggers and such might cause lag. They are slow to download, etc. I think TT's idea of making a two player game is a good one. Although the project your working on is the complete oppositie of his "RUSH" map.
What you have in mind is pretty much exactly what I had planned for "The Seasons RPG Spring." Which will be single player (and will come out a really long time from now, think 2006 at least). I don't think I could tackle something like this for a multiplayer map.
Don't worry, I know what a true RPG is. So Spring won't be another action adventure game saying it's "revolutionary" when it's the same each time you play it.
A multiplayer evrsion of a True RPG wouldn't be really difficult to make but you would have to think how you would use your resources.
Time for example is a big factor. If all players have the same role in the map you could just copy/paste triggers. But if each player has a different role, then you would have to create new triggers for each player and all those triggers for a True RPG are very time consuming.
Now the next big factor froms topping you from creating a True Multiplayer RPG would be strings. Because of the 1024 string limit, there is a big chance that you will have to start using string saving techniques like not using comments on your triggers. The string limit may not be a factor in the future, if I recall correctly, BSTRhino broke the string limit a couple of months ago.
QUOTE
Hm...But the way you put it, wouldn't RPGs on game consoles be considered psuedo RPGs as well? RPGs now are called RPGs due to the turn-based battle systems. In a game where you control the complete outcome of the game, that's what we call RPs. Of course, calling it an RP game, it would be known as an RPG. I suppose it's the abbreviations that link the two types of games, but I still draw a line on that.
Turn-Based games on Starcraft are Turn-based Action/Adventure maps in betetr terms than my "Pre-set Game" term.
How you kill a monster doesn't determine wether the map is a true RPG or not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DoomGaze on 2005-05-07 at 18:33:36
I'm not saying all turn-based games are considered RPGs. I'm just stating that games with a turn-based battle system are often labeled as RPGs in many areas besides Starcraft.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by scwizard on 2005-05-07 at 18:36:35
QUOTE
Time for example is a big factor. If all players have the same role in the map you could just copy/paste triggers. But if each player has a different role, then you would have to create new triggers for each player and all those triggers for a True RPG are very time consuming.
Sounds pretty difficult to me, but your have way more map making xp.
About the string limit. It can be easily snapped with SCMDraft2 I think. In the strings editor all you have to do is click "Create string." The only problem is you would need to stop using starforge after you hit 1024 strings.
You might have anwsered this, but is your map single player or multi player?
ADDITION:
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG @ May 7 2005, 04:25 PM)
I also have no interest in RPG's because they are boring. Just hacking and slashing and getting to your objective is boring. It's the same idea in all of them. Once you finish an RPG map, thats it and you won't play it againg because it's going to be the exact same thing.
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.[right][snapback]202881[/snapback][/right]
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.[right][snapback]202881[/snapback][/right]
Why do you find traditional Bnet "RPGs" boring?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-05-07 at 18:41:35
Multiplayer, but each player will have the same role as the others.
Traditional B.net RPG's are boring to me because it's the same concept in all of them. You get a mission, do it and then you get another and keep doign it in an endless cycle.
I think that you are thinking of games like KoToR and Final Fantasy. Both of these games are True RPG's not because of the turn based game system, but because you can interact with NPC's, have different quests and quest order and things I explained in first post.
There are many factors that need to be considered before a map is to eb called a true RPG.
Traditional B.net RPG's are boring to me because it's the same concept in all of them. You get a mission, do it and then you get another and keep doign it in an endless cycle.
QUOTE
I'm not saying all turn-based games are considered RPGs. I'm just stating that games with a turn-based battle system are often labeled as RPGs in many areas besides Starcraft.
I think that you are thinking of games like KoToR and Final Fantasy. Both of these games are True RPG's not because of the turn based game system, but because you can interact with NPC's, have different quests and quest order and things I explained in first post.
There are many factors that need to be considered before a map is to eb called a true RPG.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2005-05-07 at 18:43:00
Do something like Chrono Trigger where you get extra stuff from side quests, and there is like 10 different endings.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-07 at 21:31:33
You could always Recycle strings when you are done with a specific part of the map. Say you finish making a town area and the triggers are all done. Then you make all the locations the same name ex, "Town Area," and then recycle them. There are many string saving techniques.
Many RPGs have some sort of interaction that changes gameplay but most of these RPGs eventually force you to do a specific thing and you end up with the same result.
Many RPGs have some sort of interaction that changes gameplay but most of these RPGs eventually force you to do a specific thing and you end up with the same result.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2005-05-07 at 21:36:19
Is each line one string?
E.g. in the "Display Text" trigger you put:
will it be devided into
String one: "Welcome to"
String two: "New Gettysburg" ?
Wait, I think it just adds the newline things. (I know how to get them
so like you put them in a big text area it will jsut go down one line instead of two boxes)
E.g. in the "Display Text" trigger you put:
QUOTE
Welcome to
New Gettysburg
New Gettysburg
will it be devided into
String one: "Welcome to"
String two: "New Gettysburg" ?
Wait, I think it just adds the newline things. (I know how to get them
so like you put them in a big text area it will jsut go down one line instead of two boxes)Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-07 at 21:43:36
QUOTE(O)FaRTy1billion @ May 7 2005, 09:36 PM)
Is each line one string?
E.g. in the "Display Text" trigger you put:
will it be devided into
String one: "Welcome to"
String two: "New Gettysburg" ?
[right][snapback]203035[/snapback][/right]
No. It will be one string with a newline character...E.g. in the "Display Text" trigger you put:
will it be devided into
String one: "Welcome to"
String two: "New Gettysburg" ?
[right][snapback]203035[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(O)FaRTy1billion @ May 7 2005, 09:36 PM)
Wait, I think it just adds the newline things. (I know how to get them so like you put them in a big text area it will jsut go down one line instead of two boxes)
[right][snapback]203035[/snapback][/right]
so like you put them in a big text area it will jsut go down one line instead of two boxes)[right][snapback]203035[/snapback][/right]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2005-05-07 at 22:01:36
Woot! I was right 
ok, ty for reminding me. (I knew that...)
ok, ty for reminding me. (I knew that...)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dust_core on 2005-05-07 at 23:02:37
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG @ May 7 2005, 04:25 PM)
Old maps don't get played anymore because all maps get boring after a while. New maps have new Trigger Systems and special effects which make old maps obsolete.
Also basing your evidence that good maps on Starcraft not lasting on B.net. B.net isn't everything to Map Making.
You don't see many large scale RPG's on B.net because those maps take a very long time to download on B.net and way more than 2 hours to play.
B.net is a place where people want to play a fast game which ocupies them without getting bored. Defense and Madness dominate the B.net UMS Community (Not the UMS Mapmaking Community), because each game is different because human players act differently.
Now in RPG's you play against the computer which unless told so, will always be the same.
I also have no interest in RPG's because they are boring. Just hacking and slashing and getting to your objective is boring. It's the same idea in all of them. Once you finish an RPG map, thats it and you won't play it againg because it's going to be the exact same thing.
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.
These "RPG's" which we call should be called Pre-Set Game because the mapmaker makes it so that in order to win, you have to do some Pre-Set objectives which will always be the same.
A true RPG is different everytime you play it, just like Defense and Madness games and thats why they are the type of map most widely played on B.net. In a true RPG, different scenarios will appear each time that you play and you can interact with NPC's. If you haven't tried to do this then you aren't trying to make "Pre-Set Games" the dominating map type.
Now I on the other hand, am making the first step for this true RPG. It's not a true RPG nor a "Pre-Set Game" but it's halfway in between. It's still in it's Pre-Beta stages and it won't be finished anytime soon but here is why this is the first large step towards a true RPG.
1) I plan on having different scenarios everytime that you play in different orders. By using a Complex Random Trigger System linked to different Pre-Set scenarios, the map will always be different.
2) NPC interaction. Although you don't interact directly with the NPC's, you do so in an indirect way. Based on if you complete a mission or not, NPC's will talk to you in a different way and you will recieve different bonuses. Depending on wether or not you succed or fail a mission, these bonuses and speach will affect future interaction for the rest of the game. Meaning that if you succed your first mission and fail your second, the NPC's will act better towards you than if you failed both of them.
These two factors will be the first big step towards a true RPG. Yes my map have Pre-Set main misssions, but it also has side missions which appear at random and depending on your succes or failure, NPC's will act different towards you which past performances will last toward the entire game making a whole web of triggers and switches to make all the interactions.
Now what else is needed to finish the staircase to a true RPG will be complete Character Interactions. This means that if an NPC talks to you, you can talk back to him and depending on what you said back, you will get a different reaction. We all know that Starcraft doesn't have the capability to read text like Warcraft III does, but a nice solution would eb to use a Talking system similar to that of Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 1.
Now a player choosing his order of which quest should be done first or if at all do do it is very important in an RPG and this can be done using a Complex System of Switches that will tell what missions are to be done, done or any other action that will affect that.
Another important issue is Random Missions. No longer would we get the same mission from the old man under the tree to kill a monster. Every time we speak to him we would now get a different mission to kill a monster, recue an NPC or find a lsot artifact.
The day all these 3 systems are implemented into one map to complement each system is the day the first True Starcraft UMS Role Playing Game is born. It will take over one thousand triggers to complete such a Complex RPG system liek that into a map but the result will be well worth it.
[right][snapback]202881[/snapback][/right]
Also basing your evidence that good maps on Starcraft not lasting on B.net. B.net isn't everything to Map Making.
You don't see many large scale RPG's on B.net because those maps take a very long time to download on B.net and way more than 2 hours to play.
B.net is a place where people want to play a fast game which ocupies them without getting bored. Defense and Madness dominate the B.net UMS Community (Not the UMS Mapmaking Community), because each game is different because human players act differently.
Now in RPG's you play against the computer which unless told so, will always be the same.
I also have no interest in RPG's because they are boring. Just hacking and slashing and getting to your objective is boring. It's the same idea in all of them. Once you finish an RPG map, thats it and you won't play it againg because it's going to be the exact same thing.
These "RPG" maps which have been on circulation ever since 1997 are not RPG's. No map in Starcraft can be called an RPG. Every map has the same outcome, reach your pre-set objectives.
These "RPG's" which we call should be called Pre-Set Game because the mapmaker makes it so that in order to win, you have to do some Pre-Set objectives which will always be the same.
A true RPG is different everytime you play it, just like Defense and Madness games and thats why they are the type of map most widely played on B.net. In a true RPG, different scenarios will appear each time that you play and you can interact with NPC's. If you haven't tried to do this then you aren't trying to make "Pre-Set Games" the dominating map type.
Now I on the other hand, am making the first step for this true RPG. It's not a true RPG nor a "Pre-Set Game" but it's halfway in between. It's still in it's Pre-Beta stages and it won't be finished anytime soon but here is why this is the first large step towards a true RPG.
1) I plan on having different scenarios everytime that you play in different orders. By using a Complex Random Trigger System linked to different Pre-Set scenarios, the map will always be different.
2) NPC interaction. Although you don't interact directly with the NPC's, you do so in an indirect way. Based on if you complete a mission or not, NPC's will talk to you in a different way and you will recieve different bonuses. Depending on wether or not you succed or fail a mission, these bonuses and speach will affect future interaction for the rest of the game. Meaning that if you succed your first mission and fail your second, the NPC's will act better towards you than if you failed both of them.
These two factors will be the first big step towards a true RPG. Yes my map have Pre-Set main misssions, but it also has side missions which appear at random and depending on your succes or failure, NPC's will act different towards you which past performances will last toward the entire game making a whole web of triggers and switches to make all the interactions.
Now what else is needed to finish the staircase to a true RPG will be complete Character Interactions. This means that if an NPC talks to you, you can talk back to him and depending on what you said back, you will get a different reaction. We all know that Starcraft doesn't have the capability to read text like Warcraft III does, but a nice solution would eb to use a Talking system similar to that of Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 1.
Now a player choosing his order of which quest should be done first or if at all do do it is very important in an RPG and this can be done using a Complex System of Switches that will tell what missions are to be done, done or any other action that will affect that.
Another important issue is Random Missions. No longer would we get the same mission from the old man under the tree to kill a monster. Every time we speak to him we would now get a different mission to kill a monster, recue an NPC or find a lsot artifact.
The day all these 3 systems are implemented into one map to complement each system is the day the first True Starcraft UMS Role Playing Game is born. It will take over one thousand triggers to complete such a Complex RPG system liek that into a map but the result will be well worth it.
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This is the exact idea that I am making on my map right now, it has three diff. characters that has 3 diff. stories and battles. Each of the NPC's on my map have diff. emotions and pasts. They automatically talk to you and each time you finish a quest(not obliterating the destruction of the world) they give random items. I'm at 20% of my map right now.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TRiGGaMaSTa on 2005-05-07 at 23:10:39
Would you say Moogle, and I's RPG is a hack and slash? I'm beginning to lean toward that oppinion after reading this, perhaps, in the beginning it can randomize how you put out the fires, the dam being the easiest way.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-08 at 00:45:40
Hmm...I wonder how long it'll take for this one to lose motivation.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TRiGGaMaSTa on 2005-05-08 at 01:05:01
OMG, warn, suspend, ban, do you know who beer_keg is? okay so he's not that big of a deal, but i doubt you'll ever get in hall of famer . beer_keg is not refered as "this one" he is a true map maker, and unlike other people prolly like you, he will finish this!
ROAR!!!!!! and that was very rude of you.
. beer_keg is not refered as "this one" he is a true map maker, and unlike other people prolly like you, he will finish this!ROAR!!!!!! and that was very rude of you.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sniper on 2005-05-08 at 01:31:59
ive got a project going and im hoping it'll meet the expectations of a "true rpg"
if you want more information ask ultimo or click this
if you want more information ask ultimo or click this
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-08 at 02:55:26
QUOTE(TRiGGaMaSTa @ May 7 2005, 10:05 PM)
OMG, warn, suspend, ban, do you know who beer_keg is? okay so he's not that big of a deal, but i doubt you'll ever get in hall of famer . beer_keg is not refered as "this one" he is a true map maker, and unlike other people prolly like you, he will finish this!
ROAR!!!!!! and that was very rude of you.
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. beer_keg is not refered as "this one" he is a true map maker, and unlike other people prolly like you, he will finish this!ROAR!!!!!! and that was very rude of you.
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Why would I care if I never get recoginized by people I would never meet in an insiginificant computer game where I would probably meet any of you? I'm sorry, but I know alot of true map makers, but they still don't finish their maps, especially if they try something of this large size. If he finishes it, big props to him, he proved me wrong. Till then, it's just another lost project. I hope you were being sarcastic about the last part.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Fastzerg on 2005-05-08 at 06:37:53
Could You Make it That Persons Can Give Quests,Riddles
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Vibrator on 2005-05-08 at 10:54:31
There is still problems with this type of map. The string limit will make it still an incredibly long download and the massive number of triggers you will need will make making this map incredibly boring and slightly repetative.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2005-05-08 at 11:26:14
string_limit = null
you can break the string limit in scmdraft.
this_map= "single player"
True.
you can break the string limit in scmdraft.
this_map= "single player"
QUOTE
massive number of triggers you will need will make making this map incredibly boring and slightly repetative.
True.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by scwizard on 2005-05-08 at 12:43:49
BeeR_KeG said the map would be multiplayer though.
But you do kind of have a point. The Odd angel said that his RPG was going to be a true RPG. The first thing he did, was knock it down from multiplayer, to two player, to single player.
I don't think he'll finish it, becuase of his track record, and he isn't that good with triggers (until recently he didn't know how death counts worked
).
But you do kind of have a point. The Odd angel said that his RPG was going to be a true RPG. The first thing he did, was knock it down from multiplayer, to two player, to single player.
I don't think he'll finish it, becuase of his track record, and he isn't that good with triggers (until recently he didn't know how death counts worked
).Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2005-05-08 at 14:02:14
QUOTE(m.r.bob)
BeeR_KeG said the map would be multiplayer though.
Really? that would be really hard to do because each character would have to be developed.