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One thing I never get is that Religious people say doctors are playing God when they remove someone from life support or cloning and so on. But isnt putting a person on Life Support in the first place playing God? You are keeping them alive even though they would have died. Also what about modern medicines. If you take them you are defying your Gods will b/c you are making your self live longer when you should have died. Also transplants is that not playing God yet religious people praise them, yet if that heart is failing and you are on Life support and I want to take you off then it is wrong and playing God.

Are people just stupid or what please if your religious why you people are this way and why you don't insult the drugs that allow you to live longer which is basically playing god.

I've never heard them make stupid comments like 'switching off a life support machine is playing God,' but they do say that cloning and related genetic research is 'playing God.'

I think we have every right to poke around in the things which make us work, as it promotes better understanding of the world. We're hungry for knowledge I suppose.

well my family is kinda religous but ive never heard of medicens playing god people must be retarded if they say thats playing god, in my opinian why did th elord give us brains if we couldnt use them to cure us of disease

Oh my god, I just murdered someone, am I playing god by killing them? Oh no, I created a baby, is that playing god?

My opinion is that if there is a God, I bet you any damn amount of money that he's not gonna spend his lifetime as an almighty entity making sure that everyone does every single thing the way he thinks it must be done, or making sure everyone is alrightt. Its a damn unwritten law of nature, you do your part, and look out for your own ass. Pure and simple.

Yes, killing is a sin, and only God can take away a life. You might think this is cruel and unjust but remember that God created you, and God owns you. You can't go into my flower bed and pluck them out and crush them but I can do whatever to my flowers.

I agree completely with Fallen. That's one of the reasons that I don't believe in the current vision of God that literal-bible Christians seem to hold.

Okay, for the flowerbed analogy, what's so special about humans that makes them God's property and no humans' property, but other life can be human property?

Cut back to the first question for a second people - God gave us the power to create medicine and to use them, to create weapons and kill, etc.
If he didn't want us to do all that stuff, why did he give us the power to do so from the first place?

I think that God is simply being bored and wants to entertains himself seeing how we fight each other for no reason, and argue about things like that, he made us do it - by saying do A and let us do B.

Why not just poke a rock and live on, not whasting the time thinking about God because whatever he's real of a myth, you can't do anything about it.

If already, programming is playing God, since in programming you create your own worlds, with your own life forms that will never understand your existance ilke us in compare to our creator (Mr. Go).d

Good point Ago. Then again, aren't we technically God, 9since we created God, who then created the Universe and everything, right?) I mean, intellectually you would assume that you are more powerful then God, I mean, how can a concept come and kill you. God controls you only as far as you let him. I think some people let him do it too much. Of course, they're just letting books written by superstitious idiots control them, so really, why is everyone wasting their time and playing make believe with universal standards and punishments for actions that are all simply the collision and alteration of atoms? Please excuse this post. It completely ignores courtesy and respect for people's religions, and dumps a load of what I think about a magical man in the sky with powers over the Universe.

The belief that medicine is sacreligous I believe is only a Christian-Scientist belief (different from Protestant or Catholic Christianity)...since I know doctors in my church.

I am against keeping people in a vegetated state for more than five years because that is not living, especially in cases where the person was over 90 to begin with.

People say things in time of high emotion they would not say in their right mind, or otherwise, reasonably. They say things to justify their actions, or defend whatever they hold onto. It's really selfish, but only human nature.

If indeed you do believe in God, you have to realize what will happen is what he wants to happen. If not now, he can twist it so it comes out in a good way. That'd be my case against those that defend pulling the plug and abortion. (The latter is a Whole 'nother case.)

If you're not a believer of God, then the first explanation should satiate you.

*God before creation*
God: [takes a big puff] OK!! I'M GONNA MAKE A WHOLE BUNCH OF LITTLE PEOPLE AND MAKE THEM LIVE ON A LUMPY BALL!!

*God after creation*
God: Wow, this is just like playing SimCity and Starcraft and The Sims together! But this is more fun because I have like 20 races! Hey, this Osama guy looks interesting... Hey, who the F*** is this Hitler guy? Pope Benedict the 16th? Who the helll??

*Conclusion*
God wanted to play a pimped out SimCity/Starcraft/The Sims so live with it and remember, if you die, God was bored as ...

Further analysis of this post concludes that ShadowBrood is starting to see religion as a good thing, but seeing crazies with it and make everyone do what THEY want.

Posters note: You guys are reading a heavily edited Bible. Emperors throughout the past have destroyed original copies of Bibles and replaced them with their versions because they didn't like the older ones. Harder to do today but hey, with the Bush family starting to get into office like crazy, who the knows.

See, I can say intelligent things but make them sound stupid.

If God doesn't exist, most of your argument based on the religious aspect wouldn't stand anyway.

The phrase "playing God" has come to mean, however, using science to shape nature as we humans want it to be. This is a moral issue, and there are laws to take care of them, albeit not always appropriate ones. Using technologies to keep people alive longer than normal isn't playing God, it is using our knowledge to help us. There are cases, like Terri Schiavo, where even technology cannot truly SAVE a person. It kept her body alive, but her brain was dead. I wouldn't call neither keeping her alive nor finally taking her off life support "playing God", but the whole ordeal did cost a hell lot of money.

God made us in his own image, so we are both "creative" if that's what you're asking.

Yeah, sometimes I get that feeling too. Why did he have to give us free will; at moments I wish we could impeach him

If we all went to heaven regardless of if he exists then I would be all for this Ago. But that's how the cookie crumbles right?


Now hold up; this is a communication pun. I just invented the word "communication pun" so bear with me. You know how theory means two different things right? In the the scientific world, "theory" means "a hypothesis that is strongly backed by proofs and hard evidence, making it a probable absolute truth." In common language (when talking to someone), it means "a guess; a hunch".

To be brief, you're accidentally playing with the phrase "playing God". In DND, just because you play as the DM known as "Fate" or "unseen God", doesn't mean you're "Playing God" in that sense of the phrase.

Playing God, from what i've learned about the phrase, means "To mess with natural patterns, forces, animals, and humans, trying to make something unnatural out of it. " There, making a child isn't unnatural; it's an natural intelligent process. On the other hand, having a doctor tamper with the fetus to specialize everything about it is unnatural. Even though the baby may still go through the natural process of birth, there was an unnatural change that took place.

Then there's your "programming" speech. All your premises are true, but you still come to a false conclusion. You didn't change any natural forces in making the program. You used what was already there. Same as the computer; people arranged natural stimuli into a process. But is that process unnatural? No, because the keys which you hit make the stimuli (1s and 0s) go off. It's like playing a video game. You press A, the guy jumps. You press it again, the guy jumps. If you press it again, the guy still jumps.

Then comes the interesting part. What if you press A, and he does a super cool move that you did not put into the game that shouldn't even exist? This is my example of a "natural error". Natural errors are rare, and I still lack much examples of them.

My argument goes like this:
A) Nature (wind, stimuli, earthquakes, and other such things, gravity) is non-intelligent.

B) "Playing God" means: To mess with natural patterns, forces, animals, and humans, trying to make something unnatural out of it.

1) Suppose a natural process has failed, causing an unnatural event.

Conclusion: Since a natural process is non-intelligent, it cannot try to make something unnatural; therefore, natural cannot "Play God".

So basically, Natural errors is not "playing God" because they have no free will to play it!
Please use this post to solve your problems and better understand the arguments. Thanks! <(^.^)>

ADDITION:

Don't you mean "you can say stupid things but make them sound intelligent?"
Or were you making a joke?

God does exist, but if you're really atheist and don't believe in God, you get your wish. You're separated from the ultimate good and justice. That's what hell is. Hell is punishment, but it's not torture, it's just eternal regret and it IS a bad thing. So, God isn't evil.

well if you dont think killen is so bad lets think.... god gave yoshi the power to ban you from this forum if he feels like. But becuase yoshi is a good person he wuldnt just ban you for no reason. Get what i'm sayen? just becuase god gives us the power to do somehting desnt mean we should do it...


also theortertical human, i truely feel sorry for those who must live around you. for i truely feel that you need to put a little more thought into the subject. think about this, if you can control things that way, then arent i controlling you right now? by reading this you are responding to my will, but if you dont read isnt that directly related to the fact that i aid this too, so no matter what you do from this point on you are under my control even if you know it or not. For i will ahve an effect on anyhitrng you do from this point on for having read this, even if you dont know it or not.
i think if you disagree with this sentment then you might also find the same flaw with your own opinion. think about that for a second.

I always thought of 'in his own image' as look like him, not be like him - after all - we don't have God's powers, so it'd be weird that we have some and not the rest, right?
Either it all, or nothing, decide.


But you can't make anything truly unnatural, the fact that you can do it makes it natural.


I don't see how's this thing unnatural, it seems to me like you're defining 'unnatural' as: a series of normal actions that happen together and didn't happen this way many years ago; by this you can say that cars are unnatural, brick houses are unnatural, cheeseburgers are unnatural, etc...


You can say exactly the same thing about doctors who interfere with birth, they didn't change any natural forces, they just used what was already there to get a better resault.

Also, the whole part of 'pressing A and the guy jumps', same thing is with God.
Obviusly, as humans, we can't create anything that we haven't seen before, just combinations, so by creating a program we make creatures in our own figure - just like God did.
For us, those creatures may seem mindless and as if they're only doing what they've been told - but same thing about God - for him, we're only automated pupets.


A) Define intelligent.

B) So now 'trying' is enought to 'play God'? you don't have to succed, just to try? how comes not everything is 'playing God' than? or maybe, you meant succeding, and than - since it's impossible - nothing is 'playing God'.

1) a,b,1? what happened to 'c'? anyway, natural processes never fail, they do exactly what they were programmed to do by God, it only seems to you that they fail because they did something they don't do usually. Using this argument you can say that a poor guy who suddenly won many money is doing something unnatural and is playing God.


When did I say killing isn't bad?
As an atheist, I believe that every action that I do should benefit me, otherwise I shouldn't do that action because it'll only be a waste of time and energy.
As far as I know, killing will only drastically increase my chance of getting into jail and will cause me to become hated by my family and friends - what leads me to the conclusion that I shouldn't kill, not because God told me, but because it's logical.

Same thing with your second argument, Yoshi won't ban me not because his a good person, he won't ban me because he's a smart person, and knows that he have no reason to ban me and thus will only waste his time by doing so.

If there was one intelligent clue from outer space, scientists would immediately know that there was an intelligent species. We could say the same for God. DNA are one example of an intelligent clue.

He gave us free will. So therefor, he cannot make us do anything.



God does not own me. What the **ck are you thinking? He gave us free will. We own ourselves.



We fight ourselves because it is human nature to fight.



YES! SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE SAME THING AS ME!!!!!!!!
THANK SHIVA!!!!!!!!! (LOL!)



There again, you try to push your FAITH unto us. You have no right to do so. It is your FAITH, not ours.



There already is intellgent life in other places. DNA? Dioxyribonucleaicacid? How is that proof of "God"? That is proof that life exists, but does not prove "God" exists.

So you're saying DNA came out of nothing...

If you hear a "bang" you can't say it was caused by nothing. It has to have a cause. So, what was the cause of the Big Bang?


You're saying that you do not own what you create. If you make a drawing that was entirely made from you, wouldn't you have the right to destroy it or let it live?

And free will means he gave us a choice to love him and believe in him. In the Bible, it never says all will go to heaven, it says that SOME will go to heaven, which are the chosen ones that CHOSE to go to heaven.

DNA came from evolution, you jackass. A "Bang" is something our SENSE picks up, complete different subject there. And the Big Bang has nothing to do with religion. If I am not mistakened, no "Religion" believes in the Big Bang, so why would you even try to start an argument with that? Do you not fully believe in your religion? "OMG! Cause of that you're going to hell!"

Example: Mormons believe that if you live a good, and prosperous life (Without any "Sin" what so ever) you will go to the "Celestial Kingdom" and become a "God" of your own "World". You will have complete knowledge of how to create anything and everything. That proves, right there, that the "Mormon Religion" (More like a **cking cult) is a false "Religion" because it breaks one of the "Ten Commandments" which were suposidly created by "God" himself. The "Commandment" that states, "There shall be no god before me"

So does that mean that the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Norse, Celts, Druids, Wiccans and Pagens are all going to hell because they believe in more than one "God"? **CK THAT! My bother is a Wiccan, and he isn't going to hell. And plus, the "Ten Commandments" came about after Christianity was created. So does that not mean that Christianity made the "Ten Commandments"

And I never said we don't own what we create. God does not own us because we have FREE WILL. Do we give our creations free will? NO! Therefor, we OWN them. If they had free will, we could not own them, because we couldn't make the decisions for them!

He gave us FREE WILL to believe, and DO ANYTHING we want to! And we do not have to believe or DO anything "God" tells us, if we don't want to.

So, that proves right there, that if you don't believe in religion, you will not go to hell. Because he gave us FREE WILL to believe in anything WE WANT TO!

Heaven and Hell was created by MAN, just like the "HOLY" Bible was also.

It was created by man to compensate for a "BELIEF", not a "FACT"

And if you truely believe in "God" and Jesus Christ you would not try to FORCE your religion upon us non-believers because it is FAITH, not FACT!

Quit trying to FORCE your GOD FORSAKEN RELIGION upon us NON-BELIEVERS!

Quit yelling, if someone tries to support their argument through religion, that's their own fault.

I was not yelling, I was clearly stating my point by captiallinzing my words

Why not? And by your logic what caused God?

Kellimus, noone's forcing you to convert to christianity. All they're doing is just describing their belief. You dont see neiji or anyone say anything like "BELIEVE IN GOD, NOW!!! OR GO TO HELL!" Yes we do see him say "if you dont believe in God, you are going to hell," which is not an order, but a description (aka his belief). There's a difference