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First thing is first: We will need a team of at least 1-2 people.
Requirements: Prove to me your skills are FAR above normal map making ability.

I have had this idea for a while, in fact I have even made a few practice maps testing out my idea. It wasn't until I read a post on SEN about a crappy zelda rpg being made that I remembered the idea. Basically, I want to create a real Zelda game using a real Zelda system. The map would be multiplayer (4 players max) just like 4 swords.

Whats the difference:

The map will always be centered on a 20x15 one screen grid. It will be just like a zelda game you may play on an emulator. All attacking will be coded, all enemies will be coded, and the units will not use the standard attack, health, or movement systems that they normally do.

How will this be done:

Many grids that center around enemies, and yourself, as well as an indepth grid beneath the player will dictate new areas that he may go to, and the map that will reveal itself. The map will also include health stats and current item selected by use of the minimap. The minimap will be able to show small hearts, and items. While as to open the actual item menu, the game will pause and center screen you on another section. To make keyboard detection I plan on using hot keyed gateways and barracks.

Why a Team?:

This will be an actual zelda game, which means that more people then just one would be needed to finish it. Keys, dungeons, enemies, and more will be found. There is going to be around 500 made areas for the link(s) to go into if the time is found.

I've never seen you before, can you make maps even?:

Im more of a programmer then a map maker, if you think these ideas are coming from someone who cant make maps, then please, leave this topic now.

I want feedback, it would be a shame if this project never started. I know how hard it will be to make, so a team is necessary ppl's.
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Btw, have any ideas tell me. Im still thinking about how to make terrain unique for the 20 x 15 grid, and how to make complex water effects from the grid.

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I think starcraft is the wrong progarming language for this...
Why not try some other kind of language?

Have you played the starcraft game called dungeon battles or something?
It always has a moving grid location cnetered on this unit and you can see anywhere else but within that area unless some special moment like cutscene before boss.

However, For your rpg, you will need more than one installment I think, unless you want to cut some of the stuff out. Anyways, I could help you wiht the terrain, I'm quite good at making terrain.

For teh Not attackign normally, you're probably going to have to make an intermediatary unit in roder for the ranged attacks. However, that intemediatory unit (damage blob) has to fire in a straight line. So, within your 20x15 location, you will have to make locations of 2x2 or 4x4 or soemthign along the liens for that to work . Following me still?

As for the pausing the way "you" want it to, thats not that hard. You just need to find out a way tof reeze the units wihtin that square grid of 20X15, unfocus the center location, view onto another location, and thats the basic idea.
I'm not that good with the editing minimap stuff so no comment there

Btw, I don't have any work at the moment to show to you except for the rpg system that I'm working on ( its just a basic random battle, spells, battle arena,+bounds and a defense minigame map)

But... can I help with Makign the map or joining the team for it? I would really like to be in the creds for this map if it ever gets made <<< even If I cant, sign me up for Beta testing... Y u'd better!!!

Sounds fun. PM if you want me to help. I can do some terrain work, and I'm decent with triggers. Maybe we could make this a mod, that would give us much more flexibility in some areas, I could help with something like that too.

Well since I think that this map is going to be mass distributed Oo mods might not be a good idea... and thats soo the eas(ier) way out =) I mean, the size is alreayd gunna be huge but with mods its gunna be like huge with cheese

I was thinking on an interesting idea to make it that the links can't get out of the area they are in via DTs. I'll make a map showing how the system works, but I don't know how to place it on SEN. Do you go on US West?

Im RandomJo on USwest and USeast. I'm usually on East now since channel Op Sen is there so you can usually find me hanigng out there~ i would liek to try out those maps ya have about the link =)

I was asking for Spiral's, but I'm glad to have yours too Randomjo.

For a terrain tip Jo, in all Zelda games, the corners of every screen are always unable to be reached. There is usually probably about a 2x2 square (SC terms) blocking the corner on each screen.

Oh, is moving going to be gridded or free-moving (normal moving)?
Also the screen size is 20x12, not 15

3rd edit: I just thought of an interesting quest idea. I know quests rarely exist in Zelda, but I think it's cool because it's more of a mini-game than a quest. (Remember the running games you had to do in the Zelda Series?)

Im glad to see all the enthusiasm for the project. It would be really awesome if we could get something like this started. It would be a neat accomplishment. Also, I made a mistake on the 20x15, your right it is 20x12, I just forgot XD.



Don't get the wrong idea. I could make this in another language like visual baisc very easily. However, what fun would that be? I'm already making an rpg maker program in visual basic. ;



No, but it sounds interesting. I have had a few ideas like that for a rpg, but typically rpg's in sc aren't really my thing.



Nah, multi installments won't be necessary. I can't imagine using more then 1024 strings and 255 locations in one complete zelda game. If I remember right even the gameboy zelda games don't use that many strings. Which reminds me, we'll have to think of a unique way to make a text box like in a real zelda game.



Let's see what other people have to say about the project. If enough people want it, I will start on the map, and get the basic grid and beginnings made, then accept members. For now throw out your ideas! =D Most the stuff you have said so far I already had planned, or thought about, but keep it coming!



Mod! Omg that would be so ridiculously cool. I have every single zelda tileset and graphic available. If the project gets to at least 50% done, we so have to get a mod! That would totally pwn! Thanks for offering help! =D



SpiralEdge)F(, SpiralEdge[Ex], SpiralEdge - West
Oo.Spiral.oO, Oo.SpiralEdg.oO, SpiralEdge - East
Show me your idea any time =D! Btw what do you mean get out of the area? Im completely lost. The idea is that all of the map will be made and edited from the 20x12 box. This way that box replicates a screen of a real game. Msg me!


A little of both. It's kinda complex.



Hmm yes good point. That made me think of something totally different. In the game Zelda: A link to the past, the screen moved around, and it was rarely in a single screen. Maybe instead of focusing so much on a single screen, we can make a huge box maybe 50 x 50, and make it so the single unit is constantly following in a grid, and then adjusting site and such. With this, we could make the overworld easier to program, and dungeons easier as well. Plus, we could have cool mini games as you suggest. What do you guys think? I like the bigger grid idea better. Then we can make it so the screen is always centered on the unit.

Thanks for the responses. More feedback plz!

If you want this indepth of a zelda game why would you play it on SC when you can play the game? All the hard work i think would go to waste for those who don't wanna sit around playing starcraft as a zelda game. Perhaps make everything like zelda, but a completely new storyline and new game and new characters. Just base the gameplay off zelda.

Wow, man that sounds next level. I hope you complete that i'm sure it would become popular. It has everything in it. It would take you awhile to do though. I see a very fun potential in this map. I would like to see SCreenshots or maybe progress on what you have.

Hmm Maybe the title was misleading. It will be a new zelda game, but I didn't think about changing the characters. I could make it about gobli.. or thor... *continues to rant on about jokes no one gets*...



Thanks for the enthusiasm, I'll probably start work on it in a week or so when my current map is finished. By that time a small team should be assembled for the project.

You say you have the zelda tilesets and graphics?

That might work well for a mod. I'm right now playing around with modding terrain and learning how to do it. I'm sure we could find someone who might help us with modeling and graphics... We could turn this into a mod if you wanted to I think. If you want to make it a mod though you should decide that now instead of 50% in, because at that stage you would have to redo tons of stuff to make it compatiable/use the mod features. So if you want to make this a mod you should decide now.

First things first, being a programmer won't do you any good.
Visual Basic cannot create a map. Starcraft maps are written on an MPQ, and by modifying the MPQ directly it would take years to make a map that way.

Locations won't be a problem. You could just use Tuxedo Templar's annon Grid System, you can make the whole map using two location but that wouldn't be smart because you'd have to do over 5000 triggers to contemplate the locations.

Initially, Starcraft Maps by a minumun use the same amount of strings as the amount of units. Therefore string will be a problem for you if you decide to make it a multiplayer game where all 4 players do things differently.

You cannot create a text box like in the Zelda Games unless to actually create characters like | and _ and put those around your text.

Unless you want your game to be extremely slow don't use grid moving as in you can only move up, down and side to side.

*writes it in his notebook
You know how when you get to the edge of the screen, the screen moves into the next panel while your guy waits to move? But first I need to ask you something: do all 4 guys stay in the same area, or can they go into separate areas?

Elaborate please

Sadly, I dislike the idea of a larger grid box that size. You can only fit in about 20 different "areas" and have room for everything else. Have you ever played the Original Zelda? You can buy it for the Gameboy Advance. You should look at how their screens work. I prefer that over the large screen because there's easier terrain, many more areas to work with, and nice and small. (yay!)

What about mobli?

I think we should do it like that version. It would work very nicely. Then have some dungeons the player can enter etc...

I still need to know if all characters must stay in the same quadrant as other players, or if they can go freelancing about the whole world.

Also, even if we were to use larger screen size, I suggest we do it in terms of Four Swords Adventure, where the grid is larger, but only slightly. Maybe 24x40 or something smaller, but definitely not 50x50.

Eeek! My mod knowledge is like = 0, so if we need to start with a mod from the beginning then I guess we will have to do that. I have a few questions though, if we did make a mod would it be able to be played without the mod as well as with it? Sry i'm so ignorant to the whole modding category!

Btw I will sign you up for Modding / Triggers when the project starts. I am probably going to start soon, I'm just eager to get my other map finished. Message me, or tell me your sn's, so I can msg you. I can email you the tilesets if you want. I also have every zelda .mid and .wav. I expect this game to be about 10-15 mb's btw, anyone who is interested in size. If you think that is big, then download a full zelda game from some noob rpg making site. There terrible and the size is twice that much.



Never played, unless thats the one with the river? I have made my own systems though using grids, no worries here. ;



I beg to differ my good sir! Being a programmer lets people try to find solutions to problems that other coding languages allow you to do. Different ways past restrictions to put another label on it. Also, I had no intention of coding it in VB, i'm using SCMD2, I <3 the trigger editor. You can get things done fast, and you can type in all of it.



I don't understand what your getting at. I really don't think it will be a problem... I've made many maps using strings, and as long as you dont change the name of switches or locations, and have comments or that crap, typically you never run out of strings. Plus, we can recycle all messages very easily.



Cannot is so binding =D. For a while I have neem thinking of a way to make a cool text box, and although I don't know if it would work well, I have made a few solutions. The first would be to use the bottom portion of the map. You could make it all black, and when a message appears you could make an animated message box move up. Then the message would appear in the minimap. I haven't tried this yet, but it seems like it would be hard, and small to read. As of now I am trying it in my current map, but I haven't seen if it works yet. Another wacky solution I was thinking of, was using air units. The message would pop up, and literally like 200 + observers would fill the center area, (Making it blurry) and then another unit could fill the outside. I was also thinking of using arbiters around the border of the message box, then filling the actual message box inside with lots of cloaked bc's. This way, when the message appeared, it would like like an actual message box. You know what I mean?



Damn! That single message gave me SUCH a good idea. Instead of one 20x12 screen, we could have 4. When in another area as another person, then they would show on your grid as well. That would be soooo awesome. Plus, we could make an additional minimap to be placed on the minimap, so ppl know where others are. Too confusing?



Hmm... well as we all know, unlike most rpg's the infamous link is not bound to a grid, even though his world is often built on a 16 x 16 or 32 x 32 grid placement. So, of course he himself would not be located on a grid. However, when he does special moves, like the hookshot, he will be needed to be moved across the grid, in order to move to his desired location. Make sense?



Ok then sense you guys think a smaller screen is better, I guess we will use a smaller screen. However, the screen will be 30 x 30 even if we do use 4 different boxes. Even though this is true, we can limit most areas to a 20 x 12 box by placing buildings and turning on certain triggers. When theres a town like the infamous kokiri village, then we will open to the 30 x 30. Btw, I have beaten the original zelda three times. All three on the NES!

[QUOTE]There should so be kickass custom dungeons hmm I think there's a way to cut back on teh file size, just make 2 versions: 1 with music and the other one wihtout. That should maybe cut down the size to something like 6 mb or 5 mbs

btw, Kirby the link's wouldn't be able to get out of the area considering where they go IS the area .. I just thought about ti for a while and was like wait.. thats kinda wierd... Anyways, if there was a dt wall units wouldn't be able to get in. Plus since the unit is always within the 20x12 grid, they wont be able to get the centered location offa em

Not a really good idea. The Starcraft screen is only 20x12 tiles, meaning that you will probably make once screen of playable area about 20x9, making it far too small.



Other Coding Languages... Starcraft has it's own restrictions. I've gotten past many restrictions by use of triggers and I don't know squat about programming.

Not exactly, and who said that 20x12 grid was centered on the Links anyways? The map I was making didn't have the location on the Link, but on a zergling in the middle of every "screen" area. But anyways, I thought of a better method of moving to a new "screen" since you are agreeing on a larger area than 20x12.

It is set up like this: Each link has their individual centered screen on them (4 locations). Then, they each have their own "replica" screen on them (4 locations). You'll see what the replica screens do in a minute.
__________
__|__o____|
__|___xv__|
__|______y|

Pretend that this above is the map for this particular grid, and that all players are in it. As you can see, Player y appears to be leaving this grid, Players x and v see each other in their screens, and Player o is fighting alone. Now, as all old-school Zelda players know, when Link gets to the end of a grid, the screen stops moving. Now, if the screen ALWAYS centers on link, it won't be true to the game.

So how are we going to do this? I've thought of a primitive way, but it doesn't solve how you can "shift" the screen while at the edge of one grid area.

So how are you planning on haveing this set up, actual terrain wise. I'm assuming the map itself is going to be setup something like this:

_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|-----|-----|-----|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|-----|-----|-----|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|
_____|_____|_____|_____|


Or am I misinterpreting you?

True many people have... I guess its just sort of helped me in my own ways then XD!



Wait I'm lost was this quote in reference to the text box, or in reference to the 20x12 sized area? I was also noticing how it would be quite small, considering that the damn control panel takes up 2 + tiles.

Btw, I thought of a perfect way to do the text box! The same technique as the second idea I noted would be used, however instead of cloaked bc's, we could use cloaked factories. That way, not only would the background be blurry, but on top of that the area would be shadowed! Then there could be a border for the message box, and it could all work. Also to note, when a message box did pop up, of course the screen would be paused. As in, triggers would stop actions from happening.



Very good point, when it was in a 20 x 12 box, it would center on the center, not on the actual link, because like you said, it wouldn't be true to the game. When the link was outside of the 20 x 12, because he was in an area that say needed to utilize the 30 x 30, then we would have to make triggers to allocated border detection. This way we could know when to stop centering the screen on him.



Easy way to detect borders with a grid, don't worry I'll be able to make these triggers. If you want an in depth description of how, I can give you one, it is just a little hard to explain.
If you wanted to know how we will 'shift' the screen, that will be done by detecting what edge link is at, then when he tries to go to the next area, control over him will freeze, and he will be moved as the areea is rearranging itself. It will mimic the way the original zelda does it.



Rought Layout would be on a 256 x 256 grid. The screen would be split into three horizontal areas. The top and bottom would be completely black, and contain each players current selected items, and their health, as well as magic. The lower half would contain 2 maps, 1 being the overworld map, and the second being the dungeon map. The middle area would contain 4 30 x 30 boxes lined next to each other. These would be the 4 playing areas for the players. To the right of these boxes would be the pause window, and the equipment select window. Make sense?

Supertoast, it would be exactly like that, but with three more columns added on. Then, the bottom 6 would be split into 2 groups of three, the top 6 would be split into an equal 4 and the middle would stay at 6.

WIth a mod: You could make the map without the Mod features, but it might be messy to work with. The mod could change unit sprites, it could change terrain, it could hardcode sounds and things into the map. Still, if this map was set up properly it would be possible to still use it without the mod, but we would prolly have to make two similar but different versions of the map. One specifically for the mod, one specifically without the mod. The modless map wouldn't be that much different then the modded one, you would only need to deal with various unit things and weapon balancing. As I think about this, it actually would not be that difficult to make two maps so they work for both mod and non-mod, it would just take extra work and time. I'll PM you my screenname and my gmail address so you can send me those files and I can do some work with them. I'll take anything you have; graphics, sounds, terrain, etc... If everyone on the team has gmail address it would also so simplify things (very large attatchment size), so if anyone doesn't have one (hard to beleive...) I can send them one. Just pm me your email and I'll get an you invite.

If your serious about making this a mod, we might benefit from asking clan MM for some modding assistance. If you want me to I'll go do that.

There is a problem. It's gonna be kinda hard to have functions while the whole game is centered on the main character. Also, I'd like to be part of that team XD
pm me @ Mp)Sniper or on Bnet @ Mp)Sniper =D