Staredit Network

first off, when moving a location to a different location, if I need the location (rather large) to be moved very precisely, and I move it to a location of the exact same size, would it move directly on top of it? dont want any embarrasing bugs to deal with later on heh...

2nd, is there any way to make units completely blind to a certain area (without actually blinding them that is), say an area which should not be seen, to permanently fog it for a certain player so even if a unit is very close to the area (even if its an air unit), it would not reveal whats beyond the fog line?

3rd, is there any way to copy a certain piece of terrain and paste it elsewhere on that map using any of the editors? same question for locations (which I would understand would be somewhat odd cuz of the names, but then again I dont remember getting any errors for "that location alrdy exists"), as well as for units, or traps, it'd really help me out with efficiency lol...

also, its been ahwile, but last time i asked there was no such thing known, perhaps something's been found, a non human player, (ie beyond 12), which is stable and able to attack human players (1-8)...

thanks in advance for any responses

1. Locations don' t get move to locations, they get moved on 'units'. If the unit is directly in the center of the new location of the same size as the location getting moved, yes it would be directly on it.
2. I don't think so, just make the borderline to that area unreachable, or to kill off vision completely, unvision yourself.
3. Yes, use starforge for now, go to terrain layer, drag on the area wanted to be copied. Then a red box will surround that terrain. Right Click > Create Brush. Then a brush window will come up. Click on the created brush and place it where suitable. However, remember that the copied terrain will be in 'tiled' form, thus messing up the isometric terrain placed around or on it afterwards.

Player 1-12 are the default players for SC. 1-8 is as you know it. 9-11 are hostile to all players except themselves. Player 12 is always neutral (don't respond). When player leaves their units are given to player 12, which is why you see a faint blue for that 'player's' units after they left. However note that only players 1 to 8 can run triggers.

ok, so as for location movement, seeing as when units are moved to locations they are moved to center, if i move a unit to a location of equal size to the location i wish to move, and then move a location to that unit, i'm good to go? if thats the case, any units i can use that arent visible to the players, take no space, onto which i can latch my locations?

As for terrain copying, thats perfect, how about locations and units/buildings (say they are in a certain formation...)?

Thanks alot

ADDITION:
1 more question, how can I use terrain types that dont belong to the set terrain type or whatever its called (ie ice on badlands, etc.)

Yes, what you said about the locations is correct.
Burrowed units work pretty well.

As of now, there is no program (that I know of) that can copy specific units/locations.
However, the IEP manager (Importer Exporter) of Uberation and SCMIE (Starcraft Map Importer Exporter) can import units and locations as a Whole from one map to another.

For the last question, thats not possible to put in terrain from other terrains except for a mod. However, there are something called sprites. In starforge or scmdraft 2, go to the sprite layer, go down the 'doodad' subgroup. You'll see sprites from different terrains. You can place them and they will work perfectly.

Not necessarily PERFECTLY...

If you try to move it onto a non-existant unit, it will move to the center of the location instead therefore moving one location onto another.

If it's just ground units, you can use high terrain.
If there are air units, you might make a 'virtual wall' using the "Unit Halt" technique.
If you want to have permanent vision of most of the map, then turning off vision with yourself and on with another player is a good method. However, if you only want vision of what your units can see (and not have the map unfogged the whole time), then it's more effective to use one of the first two methods.


Players 1-12 are stable.
You can't place units for players 9-12 (but you can preplace them).
You can give units between players 1-12.

Units for Players 1-8 are naturally hostile to players 9-11, but units preplaced for players 9-11 are neutral towards all players, including players 1-8.
However, units given to players 9-12 from main players (1-8) will retain their diplomacy status and their color. So one solution could be to create units for a hostile computer and then to give them to one of players 9-12.
In addition, you can use triggers to change the stance of players 1-8 towards players 9-12, but not the other way round.

Finally, you can't copy a location or set of locations, nor a group of units using current map editors.

Ok, so P9-11, retain diplomacy settings, if those units are hostile to P1 for example, and we have a P9 corsair attacking a P1 wraith, and the wraith moves out of the P9 corsair's firing range, would that corsair follow it ? if it is given a Hold Position command before transfer, would that command stick, or would u be able to perhaps command the P9 corsair to hold position (although screwed said they dont respond to triggers so...) ?

wait so, ideally, u could have one P10 unit hostile to P1, while a second P10 unit is friendly?

this one is fairly simple, but can corsairs(or any unit thats not meant to be cloaked for that matter) be permanently cloaked without a surrounding arbiter? (if they are pre-placed thats alright too...)

As well, if 2 Gun Traps are stacked on top of each other, would that interfere with their ability to fire?

thats all for now... thanks

No, DT_BK, the P161 trick is fixed by the patch.

so theres absolutely no way to perma-cloak a unit?

Have you tried the cloak triggers on the corsair yet?
It's not the P161 trick, just an alternative. Some unit's crash or doesn't work or does strange things/ unstable, so it's not as efficient. However, that's your best bet.

I could quickly test map for you if you want me to try.

not just yet, still everything out in theory, i like to make sure everything's bound to work before bothering to find out it doesnt when its done heh...

another question

well, i'll give the scenario to better explain, map i'm working on is my next version of SC Tournament. now a long time idea of mine that i never figured out how to pull off was to allow the players to use all their units in each new battle. So say everyone's made their units and everything, and we have P1 vs P2 in round 1. P1 wins the match, but loses half his men. next time P1 gets into a fight, (say vs P3), he would have all the men he originally had. this would make the map much, much more fair (and enjoyable ). Now this is alot of units, and I dont think theres any way to replace dead units, so is there any reasonbly feasable way of pulling this off?

Unless you want to have a death counter for every unit combination you could ever have, which I totally doubt you want to, try this.

Current Player suffers exactly 1 hydralisk.

Create 1 hydralisk at "Hidden Area", for player "Computer"
Set Deaths of hydra back to zero.
Preserve Trigger


Do this for all the units, it shouldn' take TOO long.

So in a battle, when a player loses a hydralisk for example, a hydra is created for a computer hidden at another area. So it'll keep track of the 'dead' units. Therefore, in the next battle, move the computer units along with the remaining units to the next battle and give all the computer units to that player. Bingo, there you have the army you once had again.

oh-my-god, theres a 'suffers' trigger available!?

dammit why didnt I know of this lol, was this always there? I thought I looked thru all the triggers alrdy... wow thats awsome heh, thnx

ADDITION:

ok, now that we're past that initial enthusiasm heh, will it be able to keep track of rapidly dying units? like say 4 hydras die instantly (in large battles with tanks and psionic storms roaming freely that could easily happen), will it keep the other 3 hydra deaths in mind while the trigger is working itself out?

I tested it again:
Preplaced units for p9-11 will not attack any of players 1-8, nor each other. They will walk to a unit and face it, but won't attack back. Players 1-8 are hostile to players 9-11.

I was wrong about the diplomacy status, though:
Units for players 1-8 will always attack units for players 9-11, even if the p9-11 units originally belonged to an ally. If there are two units for p1, and you give one of them to p9, then the p1 unit will attack the p9 unit.

Units for players 9-12 are always neutral towards all other players, even those attacking them.

Units for players 1-8 will retain their diplomacy status towards units for player 12, but not for players 9-11. If player 1 and player 2 are enemies, and you give a unit from player 2 to player 12, then player 1 units will attack that p12 unit (which won't attack back).

Test it yourself if you don't believe me.

ok, i just checked out the triggers/actions, perhaps this would work better:

if:
current player suffers AT LEAST 1 death of Certain Unit

then:
create Certain Unit for Current Player at Random Place
set deaths for current player to: Subtract 1 for Certain Unit
Preserve Trigger


elsewhere

if

PX (8 diff triggers for each player) brings unit to Random Place

then

move all units for PX to PX-Base


PX Base being outside the battle arena where the player's units would return to after battle.

ADDITION:


ah, so P9-12 will never attack P1-8? alright

minor question, after doing some editing in SCMDraft and StarForge, the SC X-tra editors seem to be unable to open that map, any ideas as to why that may be? I'm not too sure as to what it was I did...

1. I haven't really looked into that deeply, but from biskit's post, Yes.

What error comes up? Can it actually open but just deletes some sprites?
It might be the doodads from the scmdraft terrain. -Jake- once had a problem with not able to open in SCXE when there was doodads placed in the doodads layer of scmdraft. When he removed it it was able to open. Check if thats the case.

odd, before it wouldnt open period, now it opens but loses the doodads, o well, doesnt matter, i can deal without SCXE

ADDITION:



alright now, when using "Create units with properties" trigger in standard editor, and checking off the invincibility box, and then lookin at the numerical "Property" value in Starforge, its set to one. However, when I remove the invincibility checkmark, the value is still set to one... how does it differentiate?

That number is referring to the CUWP (Create Unit With Properties) Slot number. Each slot is a template of what properties to apply to the unit created. Here is a bit of info about how to use CUWP Slots in SF:
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=15063

hmm alright that all makes sense, now I know I can use the same slot if I want the same properties over and over again, however, what if these properties are for different units? if the properties can be shared between all the units (100% health and invincibility), would I be able to use that same slot for both a marine, a hydra, a templar, vessel, and wraith??

yes you can.

perfect, now, as to the checking for deaths in order to recreate the dead units, thats great and pretty much implemented (thanks alot btw ), one setback though, well, 2 actually, when scourge attack successfully, and suicide themselves, i'm very sure that doesnt count as 'deaths' for the scourge. As well, for protoss, Mind Control would also not count as a death, and when that unit dies it would actually count as for the death for the protoss player, which is the opposite of what should happen. any ideas as to how to control these 2 scenarios? (any way to latch onto a mind control with a condition?)

Another method that would bypass those cases would be to 'multiply' all created units by the number of rounds that there are:

Trigger

Conditions:

¤ Current player brings at least 1 Hydralisk to 'p1 base'.

Actions:

¤ Move 1 Hydralisk for Player 1 at 'p1 base' to 'p1 round 1'.

¤ Create 1 Hydralisk for Player 1 at 'p1 round 2'.

¤ Create 1 Hydralisk for Player 1 at 'p1 round 3'.

¤ Preserve trigger.

and the units used in rounds 1, 2 and 3 are then totally separate units, but those sets of units are identical.

A similar method would be to only multiply the units at the beginning of each round, so that you'll have a copy to use for the next round.

At the end of the round, all the units used in that round are discarded.

If you didn't worry about the mind-control problem, this process would only need to be done for scourges, and the other units could use Screwed's method.