Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 12:47:15
QUOTE(chuiu_os @ Jul 15 2005, 12:04 AM)
DEAD, all the methods known are in the kills to cash tutorials. There are only a handful of methods and according to your definition NONE are perfect.
Well let me tell you this, you cannot obtain anything PERFECT with all the limitations SC put on us. So either use one of the
-NEAR-PERFECT methods or don't.
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Well let me tell you this, you cannot obtain anything PERFECT with all the limitations SC put on us. So either use one of the
-NEAR-PERFECT methods or don't.[right][snapback]262521[/snapback][/right]
You are
wrong chuiu_os. I made triggers similar to the method 3 in tutorials but not the same. Here I attached a test map. For every ling kill you get 1 min but for every ultra you get 1 gas. The test contains 2 parts. 1st a mass destruction of 20 lings and 20 ultras in about 1 sec. and 2nd part where you kill them separately. There are 40 lings and 40 ultras in map. And you always end up with 40 min and gas! So what can I say its PERFECT! Ok check the map and you will be pleased!!!OMG I can't stop kicking
and kicking and... If you will (you certainly won't) find something that isn't perfect then post it I wan't to know.
Hey why "d a m n" is censored?
[attachmentid=11766]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2005-07-16 at 12:53:23
Try seperateing your zerglings and utralisk. Kill the utralisk off slowly while nukeing the zerglings. You will see it isn't perfect.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 12:56:26
QUOTE((U)Bolt_Head @ Jul 16 2005, 07:53 PM)
Try seperateing your zerglings and utralisk. Kill the utralisk off slowly while nukeing the zerglings. You will see it isn't perfect.
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Oh no bolt_head. Maybe you make such a situation and show what's wrong. Because I don't get it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-16 at 13:47:09
He's saying if you kill off the zerglings slowly, like one by one, while you nuke all the ultras at once so they all die at once, then it wouldn't be perfect. You would have to test this though.
Heh that's an example where when I first saw it I thought he said the f word, like chu is f-ing wrong.
QUOTE
You are wrong chuiu_os.
Heh that's an example where when I first saw it I thought he said the f word, like chu is f-ing wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 13:53:24
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 16 2005, 08:47 PM)
He's saying if you kill off the zerglings slowly, like one by one, while you nuke all the ultras at once so they all die at once, then it wouldn't be perfect. You would have to test this though.
Heh that's an example where when I first saw it I thought he said the f word, like chu is f-ing wrong.
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Heh that's an example where when I first saw it I thought he said the f word, like chu is f-ing wrong.
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I posted "you are D A M N wrong chuiu os" but D A M N got censored. And still think that trigger IS perfect in all POSIBLE game situations. I just can't imagine a RPG or other UMS where somebody should kill off the zerglings slowly, like one by one, while you nuke all the ultras! But I shall test it anyway.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2005-07-16 at 14:00:27
Oh i just realized you used deaths as well. And for a two player map, yes that is 'perfect'. But if you had more than one player killing the lings and ultralisk the triggers can't determan WHO killed them except by score.
So say you had player 3 there too killing player 2s units along with player 1.
First lets say player 3 kills 1 ultralisk with one tank shot and player 1 kills 3 lings with one tank shot at the same time. (not far fetched at all)
Player 3 will have 1300killscore
Player 1 will have 150 killscore
The computer will have 1 death of ultralisk and 3 deaths of Zerglings.
Player 1s trigger will fire. He will receave one mineral for killing the zergling, deaths will be subtracted. And it will move on to player 3's triggers.
Now Player 3 has 1300 killscpre
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 2 deaths of zerglings.
Player 3 will satisify the lings trigger and receave one mineral. (even though he didn't kill any zerglings they still have deaths and his score indicates that he has killed 26 lings. After that the ultrlaisk trigger will not fire because player 3 no longer has enouth killscore.
After player 3's trigger fires
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 1 deaths of zerglings.
Then player 1s trigger will fire again giving him one more mineral for killing a zergling. So we now have...
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 50 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 0 deaths of zerglings.
At this point no more triggers will reward any points. Both players still have a kill score but the computer hasn't suffered any zergling deaths. and they don't have enouth killpoints to satisify that of the ultralisk. Your system is actually far from perfect, you just simulated a very controled test.
So say you had player 3 there too killing player 2s units along with player 1.
First lets say player 3 kills 1 ultralisk with one tank shot and player 1 kills 3 lings with one tank shot at the same time. (not far fetched at all)
Player 3 will have 1300killscore
Player 1 will have 150 killscore
The computer will have 1 death of ultralisk and 3 deaths of Zerglings.
Player 1s trigger will fire. He will receave one mineral for killing the zergling, deaths will be subtracted. And it will move on to player 3's triggers.
Now Player 3 has 1300 killscpre
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 2 deaths of zerglings.
Player 3 will satisify the lings trigger and receave one mineral. (even though he didn't kill any zerglings they still have deaths and his score indicates that he has killed 26 lings. After that the ultrlaisk trigger will not fire because player 3 no longer has enouth killscore.
After player 3's trigger fires
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 1 deaths of zerglings.
Then player 1s trigger will fire again giving him one more mineral for killing a zergling. So we now have...
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 50 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 0 deaths of zerglings.
At this point no more triggers will reward any points. Both players still have a kill score but the computer hasn't suffered any zergling deaths. and they don't have enouth killpoints to satisify that of the ultralisk. Your system is actually far from perfect, you just simulated a very controled test.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 14:29:55
QUOTE((U)Bolt_Head @ Jul 16 2005, 09:00 PM)
Oh i just realized you used deaths as well. And for a two player map, yes that is 'perfect'. But if you had more than one player killing the lings and ultralisk the triggers can't determan WHO killed them except by score.
So say you had player 3 there too killing player 2s units along with player 1.
First lets say player 3 kills 1 ultralisk with one tank shot and player 1 kills 3 lings with one tank shot at the same time. (not far fetched at all)
Player 3 will have 1300killscore
Player 1 will have 150 killscore
The computer will have 1 death of ultralisk and 3 deaths of Zerglings.
Player 1s trigger will fire. He will receave one mineral for killing the zergling, deaths will be subtracted. And it will move on to player 3's triggers.
Now Player 3 has 1300 killscpre
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 2 deaths of zerglings.
Player 3 will satisify the lings trigger and receave one mineral. (even though he didn't kill any zerglings they still have deaths and his score indicates that he has killed 26 lings. After that the ultrlaisk trigger will not fire because player 3 no longer has enouth killscore.
After player 3's trigger fires
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 1 deaths of zerglings.
Then player 1s trigger will fire again giving him one more mineral for killing a zergling. So we now have...
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 50 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 0 deaths of zerglings.
At this point no more triggers will reward any points. Both players still have a kill score but the computer hasn't suffered any zergling deaths. and they don't have enouth killpoints to satisify that of the ultralisk. Your system is actually far from perfect, you just simulated a very controled test.
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So say you had player 3 there too killing player 2s units along with player 1.
First lets say player 3 kills 1 ultralisk with one tank shot and player 1 kills 3 lings with one tank shot at the same time. (not far fetched at all)
Player 3 will have 1300killscore
Player 1 will have 150 killscore
The computer will have 1 death of ultralisk and 3 deaths of Zerglings.
Player 1s trigger will fire. He will receave one mineral for killing the zergling, deaths will be subtracted. And it will move on to player 3's triggers.
Now Player 3 has 1300 killscpre
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 2 deaths of zerglings.
Player 3 will satisify the lings trigger and receave one mineral. (even though he didn't kill any zerglings they still have deaths and his score indicates that he has killed 26 lings. After that the ultrlaisk trigger will not fire because player 3 no longer has enouth killscore.
After player 3's trigger fires
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 100 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 1 deaths of zerglings.
Then player 1s trigger will fire again giving him one more mineral for killing a zergling. So we now have...
Player 3 has 1250 killscore
Player 1 has 50 killscore
Computer has 1 death of utralisk and 0 deaths of zerglings.
At this point no more triggers will reward any points. Both players still have a kill score but the computer hasn't suffered any zergling deaths. and they don't have enouth killpoints to satisify that of the ultralisk. Your system is actually far from perfect, you just simulated a very controled test.
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Ok Ok you are right I am just a noobish fool! DAM N I need that perfect trigger for my new map. Hey brainiacks help me!!
ADDITION:
QUOTE(DEAD @ Jul 16 2005, 09:14 PM)
Ok Ok you are right I am just a noobish fool! DAM N I need that perfect trigger for my new map. Hey brainiacks help me!!
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Hey I didn't know that triggers are executed in order or something. But if I change that ultra triggers is 1st and ling 2nd. Then everything should be right.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2005-07-16 at 14:41:10
QUOTE(DEAD @ Jul 16 2005, 01:29 PM)
Hey I didn't know that triggers are executed in order or something. But if I change that ultra triggers is 1st and ling 2nd. Then everything should be right.
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I'm very glad you thought of that
. It will improve your results but it will still not a perfect system.If you killed two ultralisk, while the other player had killed a zergling then it would assume you killed a ultralisk and a zergling. Then you end up with left over ultrlisk killpoints again.
You cannot use kill points to determan what unit is killed. It can guess but there is no way to make it correct. If you want a "perfect" kills to cash system you need to use Thermo's. There is no other way I have followed these debates for years.
You can set things up to be vitrually perfect dependant on your map. Say you only have one firebat. So you assume that you cannot kill more than 3 ultralisk with one shot. So you copy your ultralisk trigger 3 times and place them all above your zergling trigger.
This would allow it to check for multiple ultralisk before checking for zerglings.
But what if you use two units with a closer score. Like marines vs zerglings. (100 vs 50). Then to your kill score one marine looks the exact same way as two zerglings do. And deaths can give you an idea of what unit might died but it doesn't tell you weather or not someone else just killed one. Unless your taking turns attacking there is always room for error.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 15:01:43
QUOTE((U)Bolt_Head @ Jul 16 2005, 09:41 PM)
I'm very glad you thought of that . It will improve your results but it will still not a perfect system.
If you killed two ultralisk, while the other player had killed a zergling then it would assume you killed a ultralisk and a zergling. Then you end up with left over ultrlisk killpoints again.
You cannot use kill points to determan what unit is killed. It can guess but there is no way to make it correct. If you want a "perfect" kills to cash system you need to use Thermo's. There is no other way I have followed these debates for years.
You can set things up to be vitrually perfect dependant on your map. Say you only have one firebat. So you assume that you cannot kill more than 3 ultralisk with one shot. So you copy your ultralisk trigger 3 times and place them all above your zergling trigger.
This would allow it to check for multiple ultralisk before checking for zerglings.
But what if you use two units with a closer score. Like marines vs zerglings. (100 vs 50). Then to your kill score one marine looks the exact same way as two zerglings do. And deaths can give you an idea of what unit might died but it doesn't tell you weather or not someone else just killed one. Unless your taking turns attacking there is always room for error.
[right][snapback]263618[/snapback][/right]
. It will improve your results but it will still not a perfect system.If you killed two ultralisk, while the other player had killed a zergling then it would assume you killed a ultralisk and a zergling. Then you end up with left over ultrlisk killpoints again.
You cannot use kill points to determan what unit is killed. It can guess but there is no way to make it correct. If you want a "perfect" kills to cash system you need to use Thermo's. There is no other way I have followed these debates for years.
You can set things up to be vitrually perfect dependant on your map. Say you only have one firebat. So you assume that you cannot kill more than 3 ultralisk with one shot. So you copy your ultralisk trigger 3 times and place them all above your zergling trigger.
This would allow it to check for multiple ultralisk before checking for zerglings.
But what if you use two units with a closer score. Like marines vs zerglings. (100 vs 50). Then to your kill score one marine looks the exact same way as two zerglings do. And deaths can give you an idea of what unit might died but it doesn't tell you weather or not someone else just killed one. Unless your taking turns attacking there is always room for error.
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By saying Thermo's you mean that trigger where I need location and a death counter computer? Isn't there another way? You see my map is already 256x256 and it corrupts when I try to enlarge it! And I use SCXE mostly so I can't operate with P9-12 easy. So I have no comp nor place on map to spare. There is allways a better choise!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2005-07-16 at 15:17:15
DK was messing with a glitch that changed player's counters by messing with extended players' counters. There might be a way to indirectly access kill scores through that glitch, but someone will have to research which ones would do that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-16 at 15:28:08
Um, how about
Computer has suffered atleast 1 deaths of Zergling
Current player has atleast 50 kill score
Subtract 50 kill score
Subtract 1 deaths of Zerg Zergling of Computer
Preserve Trigger
The only way I can see this as screwing up is if you have different money scores for kills for units with the same kill score and there are two dead at the same time, then it could generate problems, but I think it's relatively perfect.
Computer has suffered atleast 1 deaths of Zergling
Current player has atleast 50 kill score
Subtract 50 kill score
Subtract 1 deaths of Zerg Zergling of Computer
Preserve Trigger
The only way I can see this as screwing up is if you have different money scores for kills for units with the same kill score and there are two dead at the same time, then it could generate problems, but I think it's relatively perfect.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 15:32:49
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 16 2005, 10:28 PM)
Um, how about
Computer has suffered atleast 1 deaths of Zergling
Current player has atleast 50 kill score
Subtract 50 kill score
Subtract 1 deaths of Zerg Zergling of Computer
Preserve Trigger
The only way I can see this as screwing up is if you have different money scores for kills for units with the same kill score and there are two dead at the same time, then it could generate problems, but I think it's relatively perfect.
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Computer has suffered atleast 1 deaths of Zergling
Current player has atleast 50 kill score
Subtract 50 kill score
Subtract 1 deaths of Zerg Zergling of Computer
Preserve Trigger
The only way I can see this as screwing up is if you have different money scores for kills for units with the same kill score and there are two dead at the same time, then it could generate problems, but I think it's relatively perfect.
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Yap thats the trigger I posted. And it IS perfect in single player. Try out the attached map it works outstanding good. But unfortunately I need multiplayer trigger.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by roule on 2005-07-16 at 16:51:59
Remember the PM i sent you? Use this, and copy the 2 triggers like 100 times each.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Grouty on 2005-07-16 at 16:58:32
i almost wish blizzard would change staredit to allow onevent triggers like on wc3, kill a rifleman get 1 gold=perfect. but unfortunatly that would destroy all 3rd party editors (i think)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 17:03:57
QUOTE(roule @ Jul 16 2005, 11:51 PM)
Remember the PM i sent you? Use this, and copy the 2 triggers like 100 times each.
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Hey did you read my PM I send you after you send yours? I added map that proves that your trigger never work in mass action!
ADDITION:
QUOTE(Grouty @ Jul 16 2005, 11:58 PM)
i almost wish blizzard would change staredit to allow onevent triggers like on wc3, kill a rifleman get 1 gold=perfect. but unfortunatly that would destroy all 3rd party editors (i think)
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They could just add action "set kill count" like the "set death count"! I will never understand why they didn't add it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by roule on 2005-07-16 at 17:11:50
It will work if you copy each trigger 100 times and you set the ultra triggers before the lings triggers.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2005-07-16 at 17:27:51
QUOTE(roule @ Jul 17 2005, 12:11 AM)
It will work if you copy each trigger 100 times and you set the ultra triggers before the lings triggers.
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1-I asked you "Hey did you read my PM I send you after you send yours?" Ok I know you haven't. But you should. Before argue with me you should play that map I attached!
2-Your trigger won't work correctly even If you will copy it 1000000000 times. And I will never fill my map with hundreds of pointless triggers.
3-Before saying that your triggers will be fine for me you could at least read my requirements in my last topic!
4-And I say again play that map and you will see that your trigger is not accurate in mass combats!
5-Check your inbox more often.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DaMiNaToR on 2005-07-16 at 17:34:51
What you need to do now is make another trigger that converts gas into minerals, like 3 gas = 1 mineral, then you can make the different scores for the remaining units in the game. But there is a big problem with this system. It won't work in multiplayer because if it's targeting the computer player's deaths, it's going to give the points to every player.
Let me know if I'm totally off.
Let me know if I'm totally off.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-07-16 at 17:35:45
Like I said, you can get damn-near perfect. Not perfect.
I've already used that method you posted in a map like 2 years ago. It was a 1v1 melee map where every unit you killed you got 75% its original cost. Idea was cool, but it really imbalances the game.
I've already used that method you posted in a map like 2 years ago. It was a 1v1 melee map where every unit you killed you got 75% its original cost. Idea was cool, but it really imbalances the game.