Staredit Network

Since we are talking about "uses" of these triggers and the actual triggers, should we not talk about the "setbacks" or "oddities" of these miraculous things?

First off, as probably the biggest setback:
MAC USERS CANNOT APPREHEND THE TRIGGERS OF GOD

I wished to point this out because a part of the starcraft population will be left out of maps due to the intrigue of a new idea. For all we know, these "God triggers" may dominate the mapmaking industry and remove all possible traces of mac users on Brood War.

Of course, this is an extreme scenerio, but it is quite possible.

Now, besides that gigantic setback, I wish to state some other oddities and "problems" that have occured.

Take DT_Battlekruser's "Innovation Defense" for example. (see attachment below.) In here you will find the happy God triggers we are knowing to love. Every player has their own individual unit.
Red has a ghost, blue has a goliath, and teal and purple have hydralisks.
Blue and teal get burst lasers (Wraith), red gets ATS battery (battlecruiser), and purple gets seeker spores(spore colony).

Now, upon testing with these change of weapons, I found interesting things.

1) The weapon range is independent of the unit's actual attack range or sub-unit range.
a) The hydralisk's seeker spores had a longer range than its sub-unit or its attack range. By manually clicking, you could hit units 2-3 squares farther than the unit's AI could do.
b) The goliath's burst laser had a smaller range than its sub-unit or attack range. Often during the defense, the goliath's AI on hold position would turn around and try to kill the dropships in the other defense areas even though the weapon's range was too small.

2) (rumored) In shielded marines, when attacking an allied opponent using a+leftclick, if your opponent starts moving around your marine will stop attacking him.

This probably could just be a re-allie trigger without the hyper trig, but I don't know for certain. Could anyone verify this?


Please post any new information about strange events aka "oddities" that are either setbacks or oppurtunities. This is like the "uses" thread except it's for those bizzare side-effects which come from these triggers.

And you can modify the AI target's aquisition range through extended triggering?

More than likely, it is just another memory set.

And I was planning on making a "Mod/ToG Comparisons" thread.

Whats the difference between "Subunit Attack Range" and "Attack Range"?

It doesn't have to be atmost the weapon range- it just won't attack the acquired target until it is in range.

That is extreme. At this point, the triggers of god are far too complex for many people. You wont see it in THAT many maps. I can't do much for the mac incompatibilty. You wouldn't expect me to stop mac innovations if ones were created, so you shouldn't expect me to stop the PC ones. Yes, its a major thing that sucks, but im afraid I have no intentions of discouraging this. It is extremely innovative and adds creativity to maps, and it goes by our moto "Pushing maps to the limit". Hell, I think we pretty much mowed over and nuked whatever limits we had. This is why I made Staredit Network one fine summer 2 years ago. I may not be a total genius of how maps work, but I can sure as hell try to make a site and band everyone who is intellegent into one single place. Several minds have been working on triggers of god. What have I contributed? A news post. I'm not into that whole memory changing stuff, but everyone is documenting it, and eventually I'll be able to use the techniques they thought up in my own maps. Once again, why I made this site.

Mac users are only exempt temporarily. Someone with a Mac, a memory sniffer, and enough time and determination will soon map the memory locations for Macintosh. Eventually, it will be possible to make a map that will detect if the user is on Windows or Macintosh, and will execute the appropriate triggers.

UED77

That is true, via a program it can be done.

Not really, the buffer overflows just can't happen for macs. Simple detecting will freeze their Starcraft's.

You've contributed more than that. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't know this stuff. Most likely DeathKnight would know, and pass it along to others. But you made the site. Which allows him to pass it on to the whole SEN community. Thank you. Oh and if it wasn't for my friend, I would have never knew SEN existed.

To which post does that refer to? Yoshi's or mine? It is possible to change memory addresses with death counters (although it might not cover the same data) for Macs as well if the offsets are known, is it not? As for detection, I was referring to ingame detection via conditional death counts. Before Extended Death Counters do any modification of SC Memory, a known offset could be recalled to see if it matches the default value for Win or Mac. All via triggers.

If I am wrong on any of this, please, correct me.

UED77

I'd say both, since they agree with each other and don't really say anything the other doesn't...

Well, not exactly. I was referring to detecting them via triggers, whilst Yoshi was referring to detecting them via an external program. As for DK's post, I am not sure whether it disproved my post, Yoshi's post, or the Mac usage of Extended Triggers altogether.

UED77

This isn't exactly an oddity of the actual triggers, but of SC itself. I was trying to find techs, and I did. I found that every tech for each player has a differnt offset. Cloaking field for P1 = 51645D
Cloaking field for P2 = 516475
Now, the wierd thing is the jump from tech to tech between players is a 24 decimal jump, but there are only 21 techs you can actualy research. 3 unused techs? Wierdo...
Maybe not, and someone should probably prove me wrong

God I wish I kept playing starcraft..

I quit for 2 months, and a whole series of new crap shows up.

Jesus.

Unused Tech sounds likely, think of the Internal Patches of the games they'd of done once they'd "completed" the game, removing unwanted techs that unbalance things, it would be interesting to see if they function as a tech, and in what way, but i doubt it.

Well, UED, using an extended unit death in a CONDITION will "freeze" a mac user's Starcraft, as if it was that character that crashed the game. I used a mac user as a guinea pig once.

For some reason, the Mac code and the PC code in Starcraft are different. Maybe the Mac code is more polished. One wonders why all of the crazy glitches and the triggers of god only run on PC....

The mac code is not more "polished", only different than the PC code. It is not a "variation" of the PC code; it is whole another language. Because of this, programmers and hackers alike usually do not make programs for the mac, since then they have to learn both languages.

Oh, and Yoshi, I was not trying to discorage those who wih to use the "Triggers of God". I, for one, like the idea of these triggers since they are the legal form of "modding". (I checked the bylaws you sign when going on to B.net) I just fear that extreme scenerio. Who wouldn't want to join the weapon changing bandwagon and other "cheap gimmicks" that newb mapmakers could use if learned? Young and old mapmakers alike can easily see the lack of limits given wih these triggers.

I agree, its possible. But theres nothing that I, or you can do about it.

Do mac users crash as soon as the map starts, or when an EUD triggers executes, out of curiosity?