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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> What makes games great?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Revelade on 2005-09-04 at 05:40:41
I have found it. After months of thoughts and questions, it has come to my mind what makes games great.

I will tell you what it isn't first. Graphics, music, sound and even the storyline don't make the game great.

In my game collection, I always found myself coming back to play Soul Calibur II every once in a while. Why not RE4, why not Metroid? I really didn't know until now.

What makes a game great is adaptability.

For instance, instead of big monster coming to get you when you have a sniper rifle in the open, it would take cover, instead of chasing you in plain daylight.

Now, multiplayer games are the most fun I have had and many could agree. In CS, people don't stand there, waiting for you to HS them. No, they take cover, move around, fire shots at you. They adapt to the situation.

Too many singleplayer games have I played where a guard is standing still, just waiting to be HS by your rifle.

So in summary, the AI is what makes the game. Starcraft's AI is one of the better ones since it does not wait to be attacked. If you don't have detectors, it WILL use dark templars. If you don't have air support, expect packs of mutalisks. Honestly, I think strategy games, whether played by humans or computers are great because of how many ways you can react and adapt to a situation.

Fighting games don't have the computer leaving a giant weakness. No, they move about randomly, which is a problem for other games, predictability.

Adaptation keeps games fresh and replayability quite high. Playing a game like chess, starcraft and warcraft gives games that never play quite the same. You won't have bosses, just begging to have their weaknesses exploited. It also puts the pressure on you, making sure you cover your weaknesses as well. I tend to enjoy fighting games since it isn't as demanding as RTS games. Fighting games play faster, so you don't waste hours playing only to lose, not only the game, but your time.

Maybe someone found this along time ago, but when I see scores about games on magazines, websites or by people, now I see it doesn't matter. If you have an AI that adapts, that's all that matters, at least in a singleplayer game.

I'm wondering what you think of my discovery (at least to myself).

PS. Please don't move it into the games forum. I want people to discuss this topic seriously. I would hate to see it with the threads about Halo 2 kids cussing at their Xbox.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-09-04 at 08:11:43
If it is an AI, it WILL be adaptable. Understand that. AI means Artificial INTELLIGENCE, so if it's a real AI, it will adapt.

If it just stands still or chases you when you have a rocket launcher, it isn't an AI. It's a scripted action.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Revelade on 2005-09-04 at 16:16:17
I guess this is why I enjoy fighting games, RTS games or card battling games. Replay value is enormous, since every round is never the same.

You should check out this article that discusses dynamic AI. I think it's quite a read.

Secks.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2005-09-04 at 19:35:39
How could you ever not go back to resident evil 4? It was nuckin futs!

But on the other hand fighting games our awsome (esoecially budokai and ssbm).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Revelade on 2005-09-05 at 01:56:33
QUOTE(syphon8 @ Sep 4 2005, 06:35 PM)
How could you ever not go back to resident evil 4? It was nuckin futs!

But on the other hand fighting games our awsome (esoecially budokai and ssbm).
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Simple. Despite the atmosphere of the game (graphics, audio and style), the plot felt cheap and the enemy AI is plain stupid. Sure they break into houses and stuff, but that's not enough to make the game fresh everytime. When I am carrying a big shotgun, they just walk towards me, instead of taking cover. Now I seem to be asking much, but this game gets very repetitive, especially when you do the pattern of shoot, open door, shoot, open door, again and again. At least RE1 had a lesser focus on the gameplay (which makes it become less repetitive), a stronger story and decent puzzles to throw some variety in the game.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2005-09-05 at 02:14:48
Well, I dont really agree with everything you've said up there... But some of it is true. The 3 best games I have every played were KOTOR I & II and Morrowind (goty). I beat KOTOR I at least 3 times and KOTOR II at least 6 times! Morrowind I beat only twice, but played at least over 300 hours on. Of course, starcraft...
I've played WAY too much starcraft.

I dont think adapability has anything to do with making a great game. I think its the replay value. Take Zelda (orcorina of time) for example. That game has SO much replay value. Me and my friends have beat it over 20 times (at least).

I also think storylines make a great game. KOTOR I & II had wonderful storylines. They were geneus and smart. And the story was incrediblly in-depth. I never liked being dark side on kotor II because you had to do sick and cruel things to people. And yes, I knew they weren't real. But, still, I found it hard to murder inoccents. Thats how good the gameplay and stroylines were.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-09-05 at 04:18:51
Uh, gameplay is generally what makes a "game" fun, not all this superfluos storyline crap. If it's a racing game, you DON'T NEED A STORY, JUST LET US RACE YOU wonderful friendS. Games take themselves way too seriously. Tetris doesn't have seven hours of set up cut scenes and neither does Pacman, you just play. That's why those games are so long lasting, they have a definite gameplay factor without all this flashy, unneccesary garbage.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Revelade on 2005-09-05 at 07:52:58
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Sep 5 2005, 03:18 AM)
Uh, gameplay is generally what makes a "game" fun, not all this superfluos storyline crap. If it's a racing game, you DON'T NEED A STORY, JUST LET US RACE YOU wonderful friendS. Games take themselves way too seriously. Tetris doesn't have seven hours of set up cut scenes and neither does Pacman, you just play. That's why those games are so long lasting, they have a definite gameplay factor without all this flashy, unneccesary garbage.
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I agree with your statement, but I will buy some games if their storylines are superb. Games like Eternal Darkness, Second Sight or Beyond Good & Evil really make you think, despite their linear and repetitive gameplay.

Zelda has little replayability. Sure, you can get all the heart pieces, do mini quests, do the mini games, but that's it. The bosses, and enemies will always do the same patterns. The puzzles will never change. No matter how you say it, the game is linear and has bad replayability due to it.

It is great the first time, since everything is new and fresh, but once you know a puzzle, finding new things ends there. At least in RTS, fighting and card games, your games are always different, so everything stays fresh.

Multiplayer is fun since you never know what your friend will pull off. It's this level of randomness and unpredictability that makes each game exciting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-09-05 at 18:29:11
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Sep 5 2005, 03:18 AM)
Uh, gameplay is generally what makes a "game" fun, not all this superfluos storyline crap. If it's a racing game, you DON'T NEED A STORY, JUST LET US RACE YOU wonderful friendS. Games take themselves way too seriously. Tetris doesn't have seven hours of set up cut scenes and neither does Pacman, you just play. That's why those games are so long lasting, they have a definite gameplay factor without all this flashy, unneccesary garbage.
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Exactly. I'm trying to play a game, not a movie. If I to see a movie, I'll go watch monty python's holy grail. And trust me, I like to see a lot of movies. Now, for RPGs this is different of course. But game play is the key factor to a great game. It's as simple as that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-09-05 at 18:56:26
Honestly, what makes any game great is the replayability factor. If you keep wanting to go back and play it again, then the game has achieved it's purpose.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2005-09-06 at 22:21:20
QUOTE(Revelade @ Sep 4 2005, 11:56 PM)
Simple. Despite the atmosphere of the game (graphics, audio and style), the plot felt cheap and the enemy AI is plain stupid. Sure they break into houses and stuff, but that's not enough to make the game fresh everytime. When I am carrying a big shotgun, they just walk towards me, instead of taking cover. Now I seem to be asking much, but this game gets very repetitive, especially when you do the pattern of shoot, open door, shoot, open door, again and again. At least RE1 had a lesser focus on the gameplay (which makes it become less repetitive), a stronger story and decent puzzles to throw some variety in the game.
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Try going through the game without using doors and whatnot for cover.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dr.Shotgun on 2005-09-07 at 19:39:34
I dont really agree with Wilhelm, some games require a story (RPG's), some don't. I think that storyline is just another part of a game. Its not as big as gameplay, but its bigger than some.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Revelade on 2005-09-10 at 02:17:31
QUOTE(syphon8 @ Sep 6 2005, 09:21 PM)
Try going through the game without using doors and whatnot for cover.
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In later parts of the game, you really have no cover anyways. Even if I did take your advice, it wouldn't change the fact that the AI would still be predictable and come near you, just like Doom enemies.

I'm sorry everyone, I deceived you all. Games aren't great by default. They are only great to a person, if that person accepts it. If a million people think it's great, it's their opinion that it's good.

So, really, adaptable AI is what I think makes games enjoyable to ME. Having adaptable AI is great because it changes how the game is played. Rather than you, adapting to the enemy, it adapts to you. Unlike computers, people never do the exact same patterns, so the AI will constantly adapt. The fact that the computer does change without predictability makes games fresh for me, since you never know what the next game will play like. It ultimately has a challenge, no matter how many times you play it, since games may take different directions.

Of course plot can be just as important as well. Some will make you think, others will disgust you. This is a matter of opinion as well, but most people can decide if the storyline is complex, original or is presented in unique ways.

It's really your opinion as to why you enjoy the games you do, but I think a good AI, above everything else is what keeps me playing. I don't like doing the same things over again and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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