Staredit Network

Is a map buggy when I use xtra editor for triggers and unit placement and switch to starforge for terrain? If i keep switching back and forth would it mess up triggers or anything?

Yeah you should use starfroge for unit placing and tile work, i use it just for that and i just use xtra editor for the rest, triggers, text whatever else

But doesnt that cause bugs? like it furks up the triggers and poop?

i use xtra for normal trigger. but when copying starforge all the day XD

normal terrain xtra its simple. Starforge for the finishing terrain.

Unit placement depends on how i feel like

i dont use scmd i should though acctually never even gave it a shot...


acctually there is a bug with music i think it doesnt even work on starforge...

Which one is better for making RPGs?
SCMDraft or Starforge?
(With Xtra Editor?)

Well try SCMD2 once. It won't hurt you. Here, have a link to get you started:

SCMDraft 2

Download from the link in the latest post.

I'd use SCMD2 for all terraining/unit placement since it can effectively and correctly switch between isometric and square (as well as have subtile). Also has a bunch of features like zoom, mineral distance placement, "correct" placement (seeing where exactly things can "normally" be placed), etc. It also doesn't delete doodads or screw up some sprites, as well as display everything correctly according to the current pallette used (tank anyone?).

The only feature that SCMD2 lacks in terms of the above is quick stacking of units (you can't right click on a unit, enter how many you want stacked in that place). While this feature could be useful sometimes (when creating clones of Fastest for instance ), I don't see that it's so crucial as to not to use SCMD2 because of it.

If Min from BlizzForums were here, he'd start telling you how TrigEdit is so great for copying/managing triggers... I don't use it/don't really like it. I'd use Classic TrigEdit (Plugins>Classic TrigEdit for those that don't like to look around before asking) since I like GUI triggers best (read: SCXE-style).


With SCXE, you'd want to use SCMD2. It has perfect compatibility in comparison to SF (doesn't destroy doodads, places correct isometrical terrain, imports wav files correctly, and a few other things like unit links working). Basically under-the-hood stuff that people overlook and then complain about when things start screwing up. Contrary to popular belief, it has all the features of SF and then some others (too many to list), except for quick unit stacking (read above).

SCMD2's Achilles' Heel would be switches. People constantly have trouble with them. That is, switches and mission briefings. Mission briefings are a bit nonexistent.

It's fine for triggers, however. It has text-based triggers (TrigEdit), and SCXE-style GUI triggers (Classic TrigEdit).

Thus, in terms of RPG creation (lots of fancy terrain, pre-placed units, triggers, mission briefings), use SCMD2. Then, switch to SCXE for mission briefings (if you like GUI-style mission briefings). A bonus for SCMD2 is that it recycles all strings, so for string-intensive maps like RPG's it's a fairly big bonus. Don't worry, it unrecycles them just fine if you rename one duplicate string, so there wouldn't be any problems.

Yeah, generally for a defense or something where you'll have a great many similar triggers and rectangular terrain you'd use StarForge and for melee maps or RPGs you'd be better off with SCMDraft.

Well, terrain is one of SCMD2's strong points... Triggers are SF's strong point. People seem to love the combination of text and GUI triggers that SF has, whereas SCMD2 just has text and GUI triggers separate (TrigEdit and Classic TrigEdit).

Ive been switching from Starforge to xtra editor. It fuxed up my map and terrains. I quit on many maps because of that reason and i stopped switching from those. Ima start using scm draft2 instead and with xtra editor because i think that one is less buggier or something like that.

StarForge always "fux" up maps, It's not compatible with any other editor

SCMDraft2 can repair the stuff SF deletes/corrupts from maps. So, technically, you can use SF safely as long as you open/save it in SCMD2 afterwards.

my starforge is really buggy for placing units so i only use starforge for terrain. i'm thinking of getting the new version soon. but i'm just so lazy.

I never had a problem with SF screwing up my maps, and I switch from SCXE to SF with all my maps. (SF for units, terrain, and SCXE for locations, triggers, text). Could it possible mess your map up, yes, but so could any other editor.

Actually, no. There are distinct issues with going back and forth between SF and SCXE (SF deletes DD2 by default, doesn't update ISOM for isometrical terrain, can't import .wav files correctly). A few other things it's missing (unit links I believe). I'm not sure whether that sprite duplicating bug is still present, but that's another thing. SF basically doesn't play nice with the .chk map format.

SCXE has no support for anything "out of the ordinary", so if you have things like sprites, P12 triggers, etc. it could act weird at times. I'm not sure about SF, but I'm positive SCXE doesn't support and will screw up identical strings linked ("recycled") by SCMD2.

Starforge for tiles and unit placeing definitly, pretty sure it won't mess all your triggers up. I think SCXE messed all my triggers up once, luckily it was just a experimental map.

StarForge doesnt fark up your maps xtra does, only when u switch between the 2 they MESS UP, its just your stupidity that u cant use starforge properly...

FateFulSin, X-tra loads and saves everything that should be their.

Starforge does not, it can sometimes delete\alter certain parts of the CHK that shouldn't be.
Thats Starforge not X-tra. X-tra is based on Staredit which has no real errors just less functionality. Starforge can fark up your maps, it does alter things incorrectly at times.

X-tra wont screw up your triggers, if Starforge saves your triggers wrong or links some strings wrong and you open it up in X-tra and it's messed up when your deleting or changing strings, that isn't X-Tra that is Starforge linking them up wrong. Of course Scmdraft 2 can cause the same linkage problems.
This isn't an X-tra Problem as it was never around when X-tra was still being worked on or something that was oringally intended to be done with the CHK file or even forseen by Blizzard as staredit would fark it up the same way as X-tra.


Thats because Heimdal never was going to implement Isometric Terrain based on the ISOM section, rather trying to achieve perfect Isometric Terrain without an ISOM section(though failed).
Of course SI spent alot of time with the ISOM section and got it Isom based Isometric Terrain in Scmdraft 2.

Starforge isn't an error-less program, it was never finished in the first place. It's also slower than X-tra or Scmdraft 2(VB handles strings and C++ handles Interface), I believe Heimdal even said that if he had used complete VB it would of been faster than a C++\VB mix. Obvioulsy if it was done in complete C++ it would be even faster.
Scmdraft 2 and X-tra(Staredit) were done in C++.

Yes, SCXE can't screw up maps (besides string linking problems) that much seeing as how it was the program (or at least is based on the program) that set the .chk map format.

The aforementioned linking problems occur when SCMD2 (and even SF? eh? I never knew it recycled strings...) recycles strings by making both instances of a string point to one actual string if it's the same. Of course, with SCXE not understanding this and thus editing both linked strings, problems in terms of inter-operability are bound to arise.

It's almost impossible to do the perfect ISOM-less isometrical terrain idea with current computing power. SI even researched this. There had to be a reason why Blizzard would put in the ISOM section. I mean, sure Blizzard does really weird things like have 2 separate sections for IOWN and OWNR. However, it would definitely seem overkill to me if I were thinking of the idea for Blizzard to put in a useless section that was one of the largest in the map format.

Technically, if you want to play the "beta/finished" game, SCMD2 was never finished either (it's still being worked on though, unlike SF). Even it's version number, the supposedly #1 indicator of program completion status, says "0.6.0" for the latest version as opposed to SF's "2.2". Somehow SF gives the impression that it's already finished and is in its second iteration...

Btw, about the languages: first I heard that SF's internals were C++ and GUI was VB since GUI was much easier to do in VB. Then I heard exactly the opposite, so I wouldn't exactly trust either answer until a confirmation from Heimdal.

The version number I believe means very little on the completion status. SF may be at 2.2, but thats just a basic numbering difference.
Hell I could make a program that said hello world thats suppose to be a tic tac toe game and put it at version number 5.3. And there could be another Tic tac toe game at 1.2, yes at first glance me having a 5.3 may seem like it's been worked on more but if you take a closer look you would see the truth.


Ive asked him on blizzforums and back in the old SF forum I trust my memory.
Heimdal hated how C++ handled strings. So he wrote a Visual Basic program that called on a C++ dll. Messed up a little up their though, VB also handles the interface.

VB handles the Interface and Strings and calls on a C++ dll for everything else.

...the sole purpose of a version number is to indicate the completion status. There's no point of having it otherwise (besides differentiating betwen versions, and a number without decimals such as a build number would suffice). I basically agree with you on that example. My point was that SCMD2 was also not finished yet.

Btw, this is way off-topic.

I'll agree to that.

Is there ever a time when starforge isn't buggy? That's what I would like to know.

Most the time. I never have encountered bugs unless I put large values into input areas.