Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.SOLAR.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:19:27
There is no better place to put this other than serious discussion. The recent mapmaking contest has really flawed my views of SEN. I noticed that the judges for the contest consisted highly of (U) members, and ex (U) members. I don't really care about that so much, as that Joker(U)'s map, scarab defense was rated higher than Vic's upgrade defense. I want people to tell me if I'm completely nuts in saying this, but the map itself does not strike me as amazing like Vic's upgrade defense. The map is based on the creating a scarab then moving and ordering it to the dust cloud, then removing the dust cloud. This map is simple in concept and in triggerwork, and was very frustraing to play, as you had to wait for the scarab to be allowed to shoot again. Vic's upgrade defense incorporated a truly unique menu system and unit creation based on what unit you select in the menu. The triggerwork on the map is just brilliant. The dark swarm idea is very old and creating scarabs is nothing special either. I really want to know if this makes any bit of sense to other mapmakers who have played both maps. I think it's quite plain to see there was at least a little if not a lot of bias.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-01-12 at 21:22:07
Nah... I dont think so.. I think you are just mad because you dont agree with the judges... Dont blame or flame, or you are to shame...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-01-12 at 21:23:58
I havn't seen the maps my self, but based on what I just read. I see what solar means.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.SOLAR.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:28:47
QUOTE(procuress @ Jan 12 2006, 09:22 PM)
Nah... I dont think so.. I think you are just mad because you dont agree with the judges... Dont blame or flame, or you are to shame...
[right][snapback]404337[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404337[/snapback][/right]
I'm glad that you picked up that I'm mad because I don't agree with the judges. That's the idea. No one is being flamed. I believe I presented this very maturely and sensibly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Insane.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:37:05
QUOTE(procuress @ Jan 12 2006, 09:22 PM)
Nah... I dont think so.. I think you are just mad because you dont agree with the judges... Dont blame or flame, or you are to shame...
[right][snapback]404337[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404337[/snapback][/right]
sure...yeah I agree fully Vics upgrade was WAY better than jokers map but it doesnt really matter as it was a (U) contest and life isnt always fair and personally I think Cop commander was better too
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Ordinary.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:41:04
Meh.. Im not being bias'd because i am in Oo and all.. well im not anymore.. i just visit the forum very little anyways.. i have played both maps.. and Joker(U)'s map was.. decent but i think that Vics map was a better map.. Im giving credits to all of them but i think that vics map topped Joker's... No offense to anyone but yes.. i do beleave the winning was in a small way bias'd well im out..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2006-01-12 at 21:44:14
does anyone consider the fun factor anymore? i mean the point of games is to have fun right? a person can pour hours into a game and it can be the most interesting and unique thing in the flipping world but it could also be boring as hell. while another person can spend 10 minutes making the simplest map and it can be fun.
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Insane.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:47:17
QUOTE(Sie_Sayoka @ Jan 12 2006, 09:44 PM)
does anyone consider the fun factor anymore? i mean the point of games is to have fun right? a person can pour hours into a game and it can be the most interesting and unique thing in the flipping world but it could also be boring as hell. while another person can spend 10 minutes making the simplest map and it can be fun.
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
[right][snapback]404377[/snapback][/right]
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
[right][snapback]404377[/snapback][/right]
Dont get me wrong there both really fun but it comes down to the uniqueness of the triggers afterward
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.SOLAR.oO on 2006-01-12 at 21:59:21
Agreed. Fun factor is important, but in a mm contest triggering should be more heavily weighted. Either way, I did mention that in my post; the scarab map was frustrating. The other players who played with me mentioned the same thing.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)MinigameEast on 2006-01-12 at 22:29:22
my turn! 
anyways i think it was wrong for the judges to be more (U) members than Oo or Mp) or MM or whatever. there were more (U) people than clanless SEN members.
i played jokers map and its just a little bit amazing to me.
but vics map is just..... one of those defences that is really hard to make.
if i were in vics place right now, i would be incredibly be pissed off with all the hard work he put in.
SOLUTION: no clan member being judges and redo the voting.
anyways i think it was wrong for the judges to be more (U) members than Oo or Mp) or MM or whatever. there were more (U) people than clanless SEN members.
i played jokers map and its just a little bit amazing to me.
but vics map is just..... one of those defences that is really hard to make.
if i were in vics place right now, i would be incredibly be pissed off with all the hard work he put in.
SOLUTION: no clan member being judges and redo the voting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-01-12 at 22:53:26
QUOTE(Oo.SOLAR.oO @ Jan 12 2006, 09:19 PM)
The recent mapmaking contest has really flawed my views of SEN. I noticed that the judges for the contest consisted highly of (U) members, and ex (U) members.
[right][snapback]404331[/snapback][/right]
DevliN was a judge but he never got to submit his scores.[right][snapback]404331[/snapback][/right]
Although Joker never used any new concepts, he used old concepts that not many have used in maps before.
Joker's map was more of a "wow" than Vic's map. Vic's map may have been tedious in triggerwork but it didn't have the flare that Joker's map had.
COP Commander was also using an old concept and gameplay was quite nice. But the triggering on that is simple and the idea was simple as well.
QUOTE
Oo.Vic.oO: Upgrade Defense v1.9.7.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 2
Idea: 3
Total: 3.0
2)
Transitions: 4
Glitches: 4
Construction: 2
Total: 3.3
Joker47: Scarab_D__v1.0_.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 3
Idea: 3
Total: 3.3
2)
Transitions: 3
Glitches: 4
Construction: 4
Total: 3.7
Notice the small differences? Let me explain them:1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 2
Idea: 3
Total: 3.0
2)
Transitions: 4
Glitches: 4
Construction: 2
Total: 3.3
Joker47: Scarab_D__v1.0_.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 3
Idea: 3
Total: 3.3
2)
Transitions: 3
Glitches: 4
Construction: 4
Total: 3.7
Content: Vic's map seemed more like "Another Defense" while Joker's map seemed like a "Shooter System".
Transitions: Vic's map had few transitions and all of them were smooth. Joker's map had strange transitions between levels.
Construction: Vic's map has many triggers. But to think of it, quite a simple "Bring, Remove, Create". Joker's map had upgrades for many different forms of the same weapon. Different yet interesting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ares on 2006-01-12 at 23:03:33
Get over it.
It's just a game.
It's just a game.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 5(U) on 2006-01-12 at 23:08:15
QUOTE(Oo.SOLAR.oO @ Jan 12 2006, 09:19 PM)
There is no better place to put this other than serious discussion. The recent mapmaking contest has really flawed my views of SEN. I noticed that the judges for the contest consisted highly of (U) members, and ex (U) members. I don't really care about that so much, as that Joker(U)'s map, scarab defense was rated higher than Vic's upgrade defense. I want people to tell me if I'm completely nuts in saying this, but the map itself does not strike me as amazing like Vic's upgrade defense. The map is based on the creating a scarab then moving and ordering it to the dust cloud, then removing the dust cloud. This map is simple in concept and in triggerwork, and was very frustraing to play, as you had to wait for the scarab to be allowed to shoot again. Vic's upgrade defense incorporated a truly unique menu system and unit creation based on what unit you select in the menu. The triggerwork on the map is just brilliant. The dark swarm idea is very old and creating scarabs is nothing special either. I really want to know if this makes any bit of sense to other mapmakers who have played both maps. I think it's quite plain to see there was at least a little if not a lot of bias.
[right][snapback]404331[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404331[/snapback][/right]
Did you ever heard of "fun factor"
i played both map and i dislike them both..
scarab arena is too simple.. i think it would be better if it had more spells or something else u can do...
the problem in vic's map is how long it takes to set up ur def..
the scourge system (changing hp) is a really good idea..
probe = teh boring ......maps should be faster than this..
the only cool thing in vic's map are the scroll down and up system.. with text and the scourge hp system.. everything else is has gay as any defense game made before 2000's
so why would vic's map win?? because of a scroll system and a scourge?
nah.. not really..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-12 at 23:09:03
HOW IS THIS A farkING SERIOUS DISCUSSION!
EURO'S POLICE FORCE IS MORE SERIOUS THAN THIS, WTF!
This spammious thread does not deserve SERIOUSness -_-
EURO'S POLICE FORCE IS MORE SERIOUS THAN THIS, WTF!
This spammious thread does not deserve SERIOUSness -_-
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 5(U) on 2006-01-12 at 23:10:26
QUOTE(Sie_Sayoka @ Jan 12 2006, 09:44 PM)
does anyone consider the fun factor anymore? i mean the point of games is to have fun right? a person can pour hours into a game and it can be the most interesting and unique thing in the flipping world but it could also be boring as hell. while another person can spend 10 minutes making the simplest map and it can be fun.
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
[right][snapback]404377[/snapback][/right]
i havent played those games. i hope the judges considered the fun factor though.
[right][snapback]404377[/snapback][/right]
I totally agree with fun factor.. im glad to see that im not alone..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-12 at 23:11:30
If this is allowed as a serious discussion, then discussion about me itching my balls must be serious, too!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-01-12 at 23:12:09
I don't believe in Fun Factor because different people may think different maps are fun for their own reasons. But that's besides the point.
>null.
>null.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 5(U) on 2006-01-12 at 23:12:49
QUOTE(Mp)MinigameEast @ Jan 12 2006, 10:29 PM)
but vics map is just..... one of those defences that is really hard to make.
[right][snapback]404432[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404432[/snapback][/right]
hard to make? it justs set death counters (or switch if u r noober) when u change tower type.. thats not hard...
QUOTE(Mp)MinigameEast @ Jan 12 2006, 10:29 PM)
if i were in vics place right now, i would be incredibly be pissed off with all the hard work he put in.
[right][snapback]404432[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404432[/snapback][/right]
hes 2nd.. its not that bad
EDIT:
QUOTE
I don't believe in Fun Factor because different people may think different maps are fun for their own reasons. But that's besides the point.
remplace "fun factor" by "a map that isnt always the same boring thing"
thats why most of my maps suck... i make some fun triggers.. but in the end.. its always the same thing during all the map.. and now u will say joker's map is the same thing .. maybe but u gotta aim to kill.. which means u are always in the action.. (another exemple, in tarpit def when u farm.. thats about the same thing)
QUOTE
EURO'S POLICE FORCE IS MORE SERIOUS THAN THIS, WTF!
LMAO!!!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-12 at 23:16:59
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Jan 12 2006, 09:12 PM)
>null.
[right][snapback]404479[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]404479[/snapback][/right]
THANK YOU!!!!!!!! *Praises Legacy*
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-12 at 23:18:04
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Jan 12 2006, 09:53 PM)
QUOTE
The recent mapmaking contest has really flawed my views of SEN. I noticed that the judges for the contest consisted highly of (U) members, and ex (U) members.
DevliN was a judge but he never got to submit his scores.
Although Joker never used any new concepts, he used old concepts that not many have used in maps before.
Joker's map was more of a "wow" than Vic's map. Vic's map may have been tedious in triggerwork but it didn't have the flare that Joker's map had.
COP Commander was also using an old concept and gameplay was quite nice. But the triggering on that is simple and the idea was simple as well.
QUOTE
Oo.Vic.oO: Upgrade Defense v1.9.7.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 2
Idea: 3
Total: 3.0
2)
Transitions: 4
Glitches: 4
Construction: 2
Total: 3.3
Joker47: Scarab_D__v1.0_.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 3
Idea: 3
Total: 3.3
2)
Transitions: 3
Glitches: 4
Construction: 4
Total: 3.7
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 2
Idea: 3
Total: 3.0
2)
Transitions: 4
Glitches: 4
Construction: 2
Total: 3.3
Joker47: Scarab_D__v1.0_.scx
1)
Creativity: 4
Appeal: 3
Content: 3
Idea: 3
Total: 3.3
2)
Transitions: 3
Glitches: 4
Construction: 4
Total: 3.7
Notice the small differences? Let me explain them:
Content: Vic's map seemed more like "Another Defense" while Joker's map seemed like a "Shooter System".
Transitions: Vic's map had few transitions and all of them were smooth. Joker's map had strange transitions between levels.
Construction: Vic's map has many triggers. But to think of it, quite a simple "Bring, Remove, Create". Joker's map had upgrades for many different forms of the same weapon. Different yet interesting.
[right][snapback]404455[/snapback][/right]
The last thing we need is another (U) Member trying to explain what happened.
The thing is this contest wasn't just, and was full of biased opinions.
You can stand up for what you think, but the point is, if a clan member is going to judge a fellow clan member, the opinions are going to be biased, whether the judge is aware of it or not.
The facts are it was a (U) hosted contest judged by (U) members with a (U) winner.
Almost everyone here except (U) members who have posted so far think that vic's map was better.
The last thing the (U) judges want to do is let a "rival" clan win a contest against one of their members, this is why, having clan judges judge a fellow clan member's map is a bad idea.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 5(U) on 2006-01-12 at 23:22:49
QUOTE(Nano_ @ Jan 12 2006, 11:18 PM)
QUOTE
DevliN was a judge but he never got to submit his scores.
Although Joker never used any new concepts, he used old concepts that not many have used in maps before.
Joker's map was more of a "wow" than Vic's map. Vic's map may have been tedious in triggerwork but it didn't have the flare that Joker's map had.
COP Commander was also using an old concept and gameplay was quite nice. But the triggering on that is simple and the idea was simple as well.
Notice the small differences? Let me explain them:
Content: Vic's map seemed more like "Another Defense" while Joker's map seemed like a "Shooter System".
Transitions: Vic's map had few transitions and all of them were smooth. Joker's map had strange transitions between levels.
Construction: Vic's map has many triggers. But to think of it, quite a simple "Bring, Remove, Create". Joker's map had upgrades for many different forms of the same weapon. Different yet interesting.
[right][snapback]404455[/snapback][/right]
The last thing we need is another (U) Member trying to explain what happened.
The thing is this contest wasn't just, and was full of biased opinions.
You can stand up for what you think, but the point is, if a clan member is going to judge a fellow clan member, the opinions are going to be biased, whether the judge is aware of it or not.
The facts are it was a (U) hosted contest judged by (U) members with a (U) winner.
Almost everyone here except (U) members who have posted so far think that vic's map was better.
The last thing the (U) judges want to do is let a "rival" clan win a contest against one of their members, this is why, having clan judges judge a fellow clan member's map is a bad idea.
[right][snapback]404491[/snapback][/right]
Do you seriously think the (U) judges would make joker(U) wins because hes in (U)?
who do you think we are? small kids who will cry unless we lose at a map making contest??
read my opinion (in the first of my post here) and tell me how i could take favor in joker(U) because hes in (U)..
heres what i see in that topic: someone's crying because his clan didnt win and he wants everything in his favor.. thats some immature acting.. that reminds me tagbanning....
LW Edit: Fix quoteboxes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-12 at 23:27:20
Tagbanning, that only shows your immaturity and hatred to Oo, and yes I do think it was staged.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-01-12 at 23:28:33
Before this topic spins wildly out of control, I'd like to remind everyone to please follow proper etiquette.
And the rules of SEN.
And the rules of SEN.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)MinigameEast on 2006-01-12 at 23:33:32
QUOTE(Nano_ @ Jan 12 2006, 11:18 PM)
QUOTE
DevliN was a judge but he never got to submit his scores.
Although Joker never used any new concepts, he used old concepts that not many have used in maps before.
Joker's map was more of a "wow" than Vic's map. Vic's map may have been tedious in triggerwork but it didn't have the flare that Joker's map had.
COP Commander was also using an old concept and gameplay was quite nice. But the triggering on that is simple and the idea was simple as well.
Notice the small differences? Let me explain them:
Content: Vic's map seemed more like "Another Defense" while Joker's map seemed like a "Shooter System".
Transitions: Vic's map had few transitions and all of them were smooth. Joker's map had strange transitions between levels.
Construction: Vic's map has many triggers. But to think of it, quite a simple "Bring, Remove, Create". Joker's map had upgrades for many different forms of the same weapon. Different yet interesting.
[right][snapback]404455[/snapback][/right]
The last thing we need is another (U) Member trying to explain what happened.
The thing is this contest wasn't just, and was full of biased opinions.
You can stand up for what you think, but the point is, if a clan member is going to judge a fellow clan member, the opinions are going to be biased, whether the judge is aware of it or not.
The facts are it was a (U) hosted contest judged by (U) members with a (U) winner.
Almost everyone here except (U) members who have posted so far think that vic's map was better.
The last thing the (U) judges want to do is let a "rival" clan win a contest against one of their members, this is why, having clan judges judge a fellow clan member's map is a bad idea.
[right][snapback]404491[/snapback][/right]
maybe moose should of hosted it with non clan members
LW Edit: Fixed quoteboxes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-01-12 at 23:35:53
I thought this tournament was a very fair one compared to those that we have seen in the past.
I hate those map tournaments which make things like Complexity or something else like huge chunks out of a map score. They don't focus enough on the important things, like fun factor, originality, etc.
I hate those map tournaments which make things like Complexity or something else like huge chunks out of a map score. They don't focus enough on the important things, like fun factor, originality, etc.