Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-03-04 at 23:11:18
First of all, this is not a debate as to whether god exists or not. Just assume he does.
Which God exists? The vengeful, obvious, smite-the-evil-doers, burning bush God of the Old testament? Or the subtle, forgiving God of the New Testament?
In my eyes, you can't have both. Christians seem to want to have them both, however. Saying God will send you to hell if you sin, but fully forgive you if you express even the slightest wish to repent.
So, which one is it? New Testament or old? Vengeful God or forgiving?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MyStIcAl-MySt on 2006-03-04 at 23:16:30
Seeing as how were assuming God does exist, I would assume that he God of the New Testament exists. As in my readings of what people say, many seem to feel along these lines. However off the record I do not believe in God, for my own reasons.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Falcon_A on 2006-03-04 at 23:26:07
If I had to pick one, the new testament God.
A lot of people think that way, as Mystical Myst said, and since that time period is apparently later on in time, so perhaps God's opinion changed, and he found us worthwhile to have around ;P
A lot of people think that way, as Mystical Myst said, and since that time period is apparently later on in time, so perhaps God's opinion changed, and he found us worthwhile to have around ;P
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-03-05 at 01:15:02
But if God is perfect, as the bible says, why would he change?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chrono_seifer on 2006-03-05 at 01:18:55
QUOTE(Demaris @ Mar 5 2006, 12:15 AM)
But if God is perfect, as the bible says, why would he change?
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how funny ... but yeah im hearing what you guys are saying and agree wit the god of the new testament.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ninebreaker on 2006-03-05 at 02:13:04
Both...
God will not forgive you if you deny God's existence when you die.
Otherwise, you can repent and will be forgiven. The people of the Old Testament did not repent until their punisments were recieved.
God will not forgive you if you deny God's existence when you die.
Otherwise, you can repent and will be forgiven. The people of the Old Testament did not repent until their punisments were recieved.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-03-05 at 05:13:54
Not an acceptable answer.
Does God rain brimstone down on sinners like in Sodom and Gamorrah? Or does he send his son down to forgive everyone? Mutually exclusive.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-03-05 at 05:54:22
Old Testament God is WAAAAAY cooler. New Testament God is a wimp.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-03-05 at 17:49:57
QUOTE(Ninebreaker @ Mar 5 2006, 02:13 AM)
Both...
God will not forgive you if you deny God's existence when you die.
Otherwise, you can repent and will be forgiven. The people of the Old Testament did not repent until their punisments were recieved.
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God will not forgive you if you deny God's existence when you die.
Otherwise, you can repent and will be forgiven. The people of the Old Testament did not repent until their punisments were recieved.
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That pretty much sums it up.
But if I had to choose, I'd say the New Testament God. It's more inviting
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-03-05 at 17:51:36
Having a Forgiving God roxors my boxors
Report, edit, etc...Posted by olaboy- on 2006-03-05 at 18:27:28
Forgiving but vengeful to the really evil people in our world.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2006-03-06 at 04:16:18
I think that the God in the new testiment changed because Jesus was born. And Jesus being human had human emotions such as compassion, forgiveness ect. Not saying that the God in the old Testiment didnt have those emotions just saying that they might of been stronger.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-03-06 at 04:20:31
I do believe in God, but I don't believe it judges. If it really is infinitely more advanced than we are, why would it worry over the petty things that we do?
But to be more on topic, I would say the new testament one is closer to what I think. A forgiving God is closer to the God that I believe in, which is an indifferent God.
But to be more on topic, I would say the new testament one is closer to what I think. A forgiving God is closer to the God that I believe in, which is an indifferent God.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-03-06 at 09:49:00
QUOTE(Sie_Sayoka @ Mar 6 2006, 04:16 AM)
I think that the God in the new testiment changed because Jesus was born. And Jesus being human had human emotions such as compassion, forgiveness ect. Not saying that the God in the old Testiment didnt have those emotions just saying that they might of been stronger.
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God is still vengeful. He is a jealous God, and that's why people go to hell if they don't repent and praise him.
D'ya ever notice that when people praise him in the bible, there are great times, but when they fall out, stop praising, and forget, he all but releases hell on them?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2006-03-06 at 13:55:03
QUOTE
God is still vengeful. He is a jealous God, and that's why people go to hell if they don't repent and praise him.
D'ya ever notice that when people praise him in the bible, there are great times, but when they fall out, stop praising, and forget, he all but releases hell on them?
D'ya ever notice that when people praise him in the bible, there are great times, but when they fall out, stop praising, and forget, he all but releases hell on them?
Yes. the punishments were far greater in the old testimat
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lyon on 2006-03-06 at 17:53:20
The god of the old testament and new testament are One in the same. there is no Difference.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Arbitrary on 2006-03-06 at 18:30:46
QUOTE(Venarus @ Mar 6 2006, 05:53 PM)
The god of the old testament and new testament are One in the same. there is no Difference.
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Yeah, except for the completely different composure of the Old and New Testaments, and their descriptions of a vengeful and mercyful god, respectively. And this is hypothetical, so pick one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-03-06 at 18:42:47
For those of you who say God is different in the old and new testaments, please prove it by showing us quotes from the Bible saying so.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2006-03-06 at 18:49:10
Christians made a forgiving God to make life easier on themselves. Gogogogo oldies.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Do-0dan on 2006-03-06 at 18:53:27
i think Jesus did something to change the way God treated humans back then
somethin about taking our sins and forgiving us, which turned God into a harmless, loving puppy
somethin about taking our sins and forgiving us, which turned God into a harmless, loving puppy
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zwitch on 2006-03-06 at 20:45:45
Ugh.. this would require a lot of sources and stuff to fully explain so I'll put it as simple, short, and best as I can.
God has not changed, the only thing has ever changed is our condition and the Biblical Covenant we have with God. When Adam broke the first covenant with creation and fell from God's grace because of his disobedience to God, he was cursed but God also makes small mention to Christ's eventual coming which shows that his mercy is evident as early as the time of Adam. Over the entire Old Testament, God lays out His plan for our salvation through the covenants with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David. The last Old Testament covenant, with David, also promises the coming of Christ in which the Son of David's (Christ's) Kingdom would last for eternity.
The covenant we live under today, is the Christ's covenant. Although it took a large span of time, God carried out His plan to redeem His children. Now of course, some of you might be wondering, "Well He IS God Right? Why didn't He just snap His fingers and poof?"
This plan was carried out by God to demonstrate His gracefulness but also to bring glory to Himself and on top of that, we don't deserve His mercy, it is only by God's grace that this plan was set into place.
Now, God's vengeance which is seems to occur much more often in the Old Testament is actually no different. His punishment upon the people is due to their failure to abide by the covenant that God had set into place. Our punishment for breaking Christ's covenant is Spiritual Death.
God has not changed, the only thing has ever changed is our condition and the Biblical Covenant we have with God. When Adam broke the first covenant with creation and fell from God's grace because of his disobedience to God, he was cursed but God also makes small mention to Christ's eventual coming which shows that his mercy is evident as early as the time of Adam. Over the entire Old Testament, God lays out His plan for our salvation through the covenants with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David. The last Old Testament covenant, with David, also promises the coming of Christ in which the Son of David's (Christ's) Kingdom would last for eternity.
The covenant we live under today, is the Christ's covenant. Although it took a large span of time, God carried out His plan to redeem His children. Now of course, some of you might be wondering, "Well He IS God Right? Why didn't He just snap His fingers and poof?"
This plan was carried out by God to demonstrate His gracefulness but also to bring glory to Himself and on top of that, we don't deserve His mercy, it is only by God's grace that this plan was set into place.
Now, God's vengeance which is seems to occur much more often in the Old Testament is actually no different. His punishment upon the people is due to their failure to abide by the covenant that God had set into place. Our punishment for breaking Christ's covenant is Spiritual Death.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2006-03-06 at 21:08:02
QUOTE(Do-0dan @ Mar 6 2006, 06:53 PM)
i think Jesus did something to change the way God treated humans back then
somethin about taking our sins and forgiving us, which turned God into a harmless, loving puppy
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Jesus is God. I think that it was God's time to apparently "become nicer" or something. Remember, It's ALL a part of God's plan!(..-_-)somethin about taking our sins and forgiving us, which turned God into a harmless, loving puppy
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Well now, that was quite the presentation, Zwitch. But I think my other lone sentence might explain it a bit more basically.. Raw..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Neiji on 2006-03-06 at 22:32:01
Wow, this has been answere b4... I can post the whole thing up if you want to hear it... It says ACCORDING TO BIBLE that God has never changed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by re_casper on 2006-03-06 at 23:09:38
If I MUST choose, I would choose the Old Testament, because if a Christian/Israelite/someone related to God, was there, we are permitted to kill, wage war, so forth. The only bad part is that if we are governed by God, it is... not very nice... with quite a few laws... and things... although it might be cool to see a bit of him such as the cloud descending on Sinai or the Fire, and the 10 plagues. It might be pretty cool.
But this topic is kinda... bad... You said in the beginning that this is not a debate against if God exists... but this whole thing is against God exists... if you havnt noticed... We have been saying that God has not changed. nor Jesus change anything... Read for a little... in the Gospels, it says that Jesus fullfills the law, not destroy it. So we are still under the same law, but we do not need to use it. It is to see what bad we have done. If this is not something that is against God, I do not know what is... In the Beginning They were there. They? duh... Trinity... So God is Jesus... Doesn't matter if Jesus came or not. Jesus is Jesus. God is God. God is Jesus. Jesus is God. Simple.
Like what zwitch said. The only thing that has been changed are the circumstances. The only difference is that We are covered with the 'blood' of Christ... Or simply put, we have been cleansed by Christ. If you read the Old Testament. Put yourselves as God, and see how much you would hate the Israelites, whom you(as God) have chosen. God shows extreme amount of mercy, and grace. Read Genesis and Exodus. It would be refreshing.
I dont. God never changed. Your sentances before and this one are kind of... well yes.. If God had a time to become nicer... well key word.. become... change...
But this topic is kinda... bad... You said in the beginning that this is not a debate against if God exists... but this whole thing is against God exists... if you havnt noticed... We have been saying that God has not changed. nor Jesus change anything... Read for a little... in the Gospels, it says that Jesus fullfills the law, not destroy it. So we are still under the same law, but we do not need to use it. It is to see what bad we have done. If this is not something that is against God, I do not know what is... In the Beginning They were there. They? duh... Trinity... So God is Jesus... Doesn't matter if Jesus came or not. Jesus is Jesus. God is God. God is Jesus. Jesus is God. Simple.
Like what zwitch said. The only thing that has been changed are the circumstances. The only difference is that We are covered with the 'blood' of Christ... Or simply put, we have been cleansed by Christ. If you read the Old Testament. Put yourselves as God, and see how much you would hate the Israelites, whom you(as God) have chosen. God shows extreme amount of mercy, and grace. Read Genesis and Exodus. It would be refreshing.
QUOTE(warhammer40000 @ Mar 6 2006, 06:08 PM)
Jesus is God. I think that it was God's time to apparently "become nicer" or something. Remember, It's ALL a part of God's plan!(..-_-)
Well now, that was quite the presentation, Zwitch. But I think my other lone sentence might explain it a bit more basically.. Raw..
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Well now, that was quite the presentation, Zwitch. But I think my other lone sentence might explain it a bit more basically.. Raw..
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I dont. God never changed. Your sentances before and this one are kind of... well yes.. If God had a time to become nicer... well key word.. become... change...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-07 at 09:23:01
I love how some of us think we can actually choose what God is.
I would go with the old testament, mainly because it has a higher chance of being right. But if there's no way I can get into heaven on it, I'll be like everyone else and roll the dice on the other one.
I would go with the old testament, mainly because it has a higher chance of being right. But if there's no way I can get into heaven on it, I'll be like everyone else and roll the dice on the other one.