Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-05-07 at 02:43:46
Woo spooky! Space/time anomaly in Starcraft!
Or is it?
Let's see if any of you can figure this one out (look carefully at the triggers to see what's going on).
Or is it?
Let's see if any of you can figure this one out (look carefully at the triggers to see what's going on).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-05-07 at 02:52:55
The only thing I can think of is that while the units are in the bunker their existence toggles periodically.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2006-05-07 at 03:46:49
To bad I can't look at the file or even know what your talking about since I don't have SC installed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-05-07 at 03:47:39
In the map it appears that the condition "At most 3 men" and "At least 4 men" are both met at the same time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2006-05-07 at 03:50:10
And whats going on in the map? Like with the bunker.
I'm guessing that both those conditions are on the same trigger and it requires the same player and indicates "men" each time?
I'm guessing that both those conditions are on the same trigger and it requires the same player and indicates "men" each time?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-05-07 at 04:15:35
There is a bunker, and a marine, ghost, firebat, and an SCV below it, very close. There is one location 5x5 over the bunker, and another 1x1 location directly on the center of the bunker.
The triggers are like this:
| Trigger |
| Players: |
| ¤ Player 1 |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Player 1 brings at most 3 men to location 1 (The 1x1) |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Run AI Script "Enter Closest Bunker" at Location 0 (5x5) |
| ¤ Display Text "OLILILOL!" |
| ¤ Preserve Trigger |
| Trigger |
| Players: |
| ¤ Player 1 |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Player 1 brings at least 4 men to Location 1 |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Display Text "Blargh!" |
| ¤ Preserve Trigger |
and player two has hyper triggers and nothing else.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Daedalus on 2006-05-07 at 08:33:18
I did some testing with the map and here are the results.
'Small Location' = 1x1 trigger at the center of the bunker
'Big Location' = 6x6 location covering bunker and the units
'Outside' = In the big location but not in the bunker
'Inside' = In the bunker; in the big and small location
Bold text = Where the units are
Other text = Which 'bring' conditions work
4 men outside, 0 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Should be:
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Correct
3 men outside, 1 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtMost 3 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Should be:
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Wrong! The AtMost condition doesn't seem to count units inside the bunker
2 men outside, 2 inside the bunker
Same as above
1 men outside, 3 inside the bunker
Same as above
0 men outside, 4 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtMost 3 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Small Location
Should be:
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Small Location
Wrong! The AtMost condition doesn't seem to count units inside the bunker at all
My conlusion is that:
The 'Brings At Most' condition is not working like the At Least condition does. While the At Least condition DOES count units inside the bunker, the At Most condition does NOT.
I've had a similair problem like this but then with CommandsAtLeast and CommandAtMost. However then it was the other way around, I think. I'll update you on that ASAP.
456th EDIT: After some more testing the Command thing DOES work, I still wonder why it doesn't work at my other map though :/.
ADDITION:
I tested this with a dropship as well. The big location was ground only and the small location air only, I also made sure that instead of 'men' it was 'marine' (all the ground units were turned into marines of course).
It works the same with dropships.
'Small Location' = 1x1 trigger at the center of the bunker
'Big Location' = 6x6 location covering bunker and the units
'Outside' = In the big location but not in the bunker
'Inside' = In the bunker; in the big and small location
Bold text = Where the units are
Other text = Which 'bring' conditions work
4 men outside, 0 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Should be:
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Correct
3 men outside, 1 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtMost 3 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Should be:
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
Wrong! The AtMost condition doesn't seem to count units inside the bunker
2 men outside, 2 inside the bunker
Same as above
1 men outside, 3 inside the bunker
Same as above
0 men outside, 4 inside the bunker
AtMost 3 men to Small Location
AtMost 3 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Small Location
Should be:
AtLeast 4 men to Big Location
AtLeast 4 men to Small Location
Wrong! The AtMost condition doesn't seem to count units inside the bunker at all
My conlusion is that:
The 'Brings At Most' condition is not working like the At Least condition does. While the At Least condition DOES count units inside the bunker, the At Most condition does NOT.
I've had a similair problem like this but then with CommandsAtLeast and CommandAtMost. However then it was the other way around, I think. I'll update you on that ASAP.
456th EDIT: After some more testing the Command thing DOES work, I still wonder why it doesn't work at my other map though :/.
ADDITION:
I tested this with a dropship as well. The big location was ground only and the small location air only, I also made sure that instead of 'men' it was 'marine' (all the ground units were turned into marines of course).
It works the same with dropships.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Friut on 2006-05-07 at 08:50:16
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ May 7 2006, 12:43 AM)
Woo spooky! Space/time anomaly in Starcraft!
Or is it?
Let's see if any of you can figure this one out (look carefully at the triggers to see what's going on).
[right][snapback]481374[/snapback][/right]
Or is it?
Let's see if any of you can figure this one out (look carefully at the triggers to see what's going on).
[right][snapback]481374[/snapback][/right]
I did the same thing for a tradeback/upgrade for a load into a overlord/dropship/shuttle Here
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-05-07 at 12:18:03
Not really Chriz. This isn't about getting it to work (already done that), it's about figuring out why it's doing what it's doing.
Heh, nice testing Daedalus. Keep trying though. There is an answer to this riddle.
Heh, nice testing Daedalus. Keep trying though. There is an answer to this riddle.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Daedalus on 2006-05-07 at 13:12:31
It wasn't what I said it was? 
Dang, ah well I should have tested it even more I guess
. Do I understand it correctly that, since you are talking about a ridle, this is something you did to the map? Or do you want us (and/or you, don't know if you know it..?) to figure out why Starcraft's engine works like this?
Dang, ah well I should have tested it even more I guess
. Do I understand it correctly that, since you are talking about a ridle, this is something you did to the map? Or do you want us (and/or you, don't know if you know it..?) to figure out why Starcraft's engine works like this?Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-05-07 at 14:41:48
Kinda both. I have a hunch why it's doing this, but not too specific information. I'm posting this as a riddle to see if you guys can figure this out exactly.
There's no trick here. It's just a normal staredit WYSIWYG map.
There's no trick here. It's just a normal staredit WYSIWYG map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Daedalus on 2006-05-07 at 14:53:50
And WYSIWYG means?
Oh, I think I've got something interesting during tests, it got nothing to do with this but it might be useful. Meh, it might be nothing though.
Oh, I think I've got something interesting during tests, it got nothing to do with this but it might be useful. Meh, it might be nothing though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-05-07 at 15:01:17
WYSIWYG = What You See Is What You Get.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2006-05-07 at 16:01:55
Ooh, fun fun! =D
PS.
It seems like the Bring condition's "At Most" modifier somehow can't detect units inside of a bunker/transport.
PS.
It seems like the Bring condition's "At Most" modifier somehow can't detect units inside of a bunker/transport.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2006-05-07 at 16:29:28
So basically, the triggers say ONLY if there are 3 or less units inside the bunker, it will say "OLIOLIOLI!!!"
But they also say if there are 4 units inside the bunker to say "Blargh!"
So the weirdness is the fact that there are 4 units in the bunker, yet it still says "OLIOLIOLI!!!"
I did some testing; you can change the "At Most" number to anything and the same thing will happen. I'm coming to conclusions, but its gonna take some wicked mind power for me to put together all this lol
ADDITION:
Okay, so now I'm thinking it doesn't even matter how many units are inside "Location 1". It still says "OLIOLIOLI!!!" if there aren't any units in the bunker. It says "OLIOLIOLI!!!" if there are any number of units anywhere.
So:
4 units need to be in the bunker to say "Blargh!"
Any number of units need to be anywhere in order for it to say "OLIOLIOLI!!!"
"Why" is the question... now for some more power thinking
But they also say if there are 4 units inside the bunker to say "Blargh!"
So the weirdness is the fact that there are 4 units in the bunker, yet it still says "OLIOLIOLI!!!"
I did some testing; you can change the "At Most" number to anything and the same thing will happen. I'm coming to conclusions, but its gonna take some wicked mind power for me to put together all this lol
ADDITION:
Okay, so now I'm thinking it doesn't even matter how many units are inside "Location 1". It still says "OLIOLIOLI!!!" if there aren't any units in the bunker. It says "OLIOLIOLI!!!" if there are any number of units anywhere.
So:
4 units need to be in the bunker to say "Blargh!"
Any number of units need to be anywhere in order for it to say "OLIOLIOLI!!!"
"Why" is the question... now for some more power thinking
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Urmom(U) on 2006-05-07 at 17:29:23
This was one of the things that I had to help Vizual with when he was working on his map. He was using a dropship control system and I guess Starcraft negates the effects of at most when a unit in inside something. We tried using the Brings at Most 9 men and it wouldn't work. I had to subtract a deathcount to keep track of the units inside. I wonder why starcraft does this.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2006-05-07 at 18:08:40
If I remember correctly, Starcraft didn't exactly come out on-time.
Making sure that "At Most" worked on units inside transports probably wasn't very high on the developer's list-of-things-to-do.
Making sure that "At Most" worked on units inside transports probably wasn't very high on the developer's list-of-things-to-do.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2006-05-08 at 02:52:20
Demaris for posting the triggers, and from the other stuff i figured out what must be happening lol. Yeah now i feel like I can be part of the conversation.
Although this is one of those things that I can't come to many conclusions without testing. and I basicly see everyone elses testing as substandard or missleading so i can't trust it lol.
Well tux it is neat that your still coming up with interesting stuff, Good Job.
Although this is one of those things that I can't come to many conclusions without testing. and I basicly see everyone elses testing as substandard or missleading so i can't trust it lol.
Well tux it is neat that your still coming up with interesting stuff, Good Job.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by yoni45 on 2006-05-08 at 04:05:02
Guys, i'm fairly sure I found this about a year ago
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopi...ndpost&p=258210
As a matter of fact, I specificly called dibs on the find hah...
But yes, when using the AtMost comparison it doesn't seem to count units inside other units such as Dropship or Bunker... while Exactly and At Least do... I never could explain it since all 3 are merely comparisons and have nothing to do with whats actually there, but thats all I could ever figure...
...and if I got the wrong impressions from reading the posts without actually testing the map because its late, sorry, heh
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopi...ndpost&p=258210
As a matter of fact, I specificly called dibs on the find hah...
But yes, when using the AtMost comparison it doesn't seem to count units inside other units such as Dropship or Bunker... while Exactly and At Least do... I never could explain it since all 3 are merely comparisons and have nothing to do with whats actually there, but thats all I could ever figure...
...and if I got the wrong impressions from reading the posts without actually testing the map because its late, sorry, heh
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2006-05-08 at 10:41:50
QUOTE
Although this is one of those things that I can't come to many conclusions without testing. and I basicly see everyone elses testing as substandard or missleading so i can't trust it lol.
If you tested it wou would see that the trigger simply dosen't work. When the unit is on the ground, everything's fine. When it enters the transport, it's as though it dosen't exist.Now that I think about it, I saw the same problem when playing Halo. In the level where you go around with the Warthog saving marines, it told me that all the marines had been killed, even though there were some sitting in the warthog. Units-in-transports = non-existant!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by yoni45 on 2006-05-08 at 12:47:01
QUOTE(Kenoli @ May 8 2006, 08:41 AM)
If you tested it wou would see that the trigger simply dosen't work. When the unit is on the ground, everything's fine. When it enters the transport, it's as though it dosen't exist.
Now that I think about it, I saw the same problem when playing Halo. In the level where you go around with the Warthog saving marines, it told me that all the marines had been killed, even though there were some sitting in the warthog. Units-in-transports = non-existant!
[right][snapback]482219[/snapback][/right]
Now that I think about it, I saw the same problem when playing Halo. In the level where you go around with the Warthog saving marines, it told me that all the marines had been killed, even though there were some sitting in the warthog. Units-in-transports = non-existant!
[right][snapback]482219[/snapback][/right]
That sounds like it's exactly what I was talking about... When using the AtMost comparison, it doesn't seem to find units in transports (or in bunkers in this case), when using Exactly or AtLeast however, it does...