Report, edit, etc...Posted by iamandragon on 2004-07-28 at 10:59:13
Okay here I go I am trying to make a RPG map.
This is no ordinary RPG maps you see in StarCraft where you run around like an idiot and kill a million monsters as though as you are the God. This map includes much newer ideas, and tests your knowledge of StarCraft down to the very end. You will be tested on small unit tatics, large scale battles, you will do bounds, go through mazes, solve riddles, ...etc.
However seeing myself a n00b in map making I need help. I am pretty good at figuring triggers out and making story lines, but I have no experience at deciding the hp of units, the map layout and doodads(my maps have always been boring without them). I need help, really need help.
Here's the overall plot of the map...
After the first and second episode of Fantasia(I have lost both maps but I think I am gonna remake them, they're fresh in my brain), the continent of Fantasia is finally united by one kingdom. However, the continent of Flakton is preparing for an invation. Three heros rise through time to come to the kingdom's aid. They faced the Dwarfs, the black knights, the dragoons, to achieve one goal: to fight off the invaders and penetrate their lands in order to protect the hard earned peace in Fantasia.
And some details:
The map is divided into chapters, with save avaliable. If you managed to beat a chapter, you will be given a password, which you can enter it at the begining of the next game to "continue". Some really hard chapters will even allow you and your teammates to restart it anytime you want.
A new system is found in this game: the strength system. The hero will have to switch to engage modes in this game in order to attack enemies. Strength is consumed continously as players enter engage mode, but will recharge when they are out of it. Heros leave engage mode when strength is deplated. This gives a more sensible feel for even heros get tired.
Inspired by Warcraft I also included an Aura for each hero. When in engage mode, they can give out an aura which benifits nearby units/players.
Apart from Aura there is also an unleash feature which is the spotlight of the game. During engage mode an energy bar will charge over time, displayed on the screen. Once it reaches a certain level heros can unleash the hidden power of their weapons for a powerful effect.
I have made up the first few chapters, too:
Chapter I--Gold Rush
The kingdom is at war and need gold for their armies. However, the dwarfs are refusing to hand in their gold. The heros have to make their way into the gold mine without being found and sneak the gold safely back to the king.
Ideas for this chapter: A warm up of this map. If you fail, you simply go back to start point and you will not die. Definately a bound, but the hard part is that you need to go back and fro!
Chapter II--East is East
The fortal defense is broken, armies of Flankton is too strong for ordinary commanders to fight. The heros answer the call of the kingdom to defend Nighthawk Fotress, the biggest Castle in Fantasia.
Ideas for this chapter:
A small scale battle. What makes it hard is that the computer is controlling the army while players can only control their heros manually. However, special commands like fall back, charge can be given to the computer and the soldiers will move/switch strategies accroding to your orders. The objective is to stop enemies getting in the fortress so this gonna be a defense like game.
Chapter III--Black and White
Dispite of the failed attack of Nighthawk Fotress, Flankton is still pressing hard, determined to take it down with their fangs and claws. However, news had been sent that the enigmatic Black Knights are attacking the Frost Harbour, the heart of Fantasia's economics. The king decided to unleash his legendary White Knights, but he needs one of the heros to lead them.
A cut scene is shown here showing how the 12 Black Knights destroy a LARGE castle within the blink of an eye and the heros will need to decide who is going to lead the White Knights and who will stay helping the Nighthawk Fotress. Their decision will not affact the whole game.
Ideas for this chapter:
A large scale battle. Whoever is staying will gain control of all the troops in the Castle, and the one leading the White Knights will gain control of the 12 White Knights. For those defending the castle they will have a hard job because they will have to keep their heros alive while stopping the enemies get close. Seige Engines, Assassins, Archers all pour into the battle field and the player has to micro really hard. For the White Knights they have to find the fastest possible way to Frost Harbour for now.
Chapter IV--Bad gets worse
Not to be disclosed yet as it's not complete.
I need a team to help with this project. Anyone?
This is no ordinary RPG maps you see in StarCraft where you run around like an idiot and kill a million monsters as though as you are the God. This map includes much newer ideas, and tests your knowledge of StarCraft down to the very end. You will be tested on small unit tatics, large scale battles, you will do bounds, go through mazes, solve riddles, ...etc.
However seeing myself a n00b in map making I need help. I am pretty good at figuring triggers out and making story lines, but I have no experience at deciding the hp of units, the map layout and doodads(my maps have always been boring without them). I need help, really need help.
Here's the overall plot of the map...
After the first and second episode of Fantasia(I have lost both maps but I think I am gonna remake them, they're fresh in my brain), the continent of Fantasia is finally united by one kingdom. However, the continent of Flakton is preparing for an invation. Three heros rise through time to come to the kingdom's aid. They faced the Dwarfs, the black knights, the dragoons, to achieve one goal: to fight off the invaders and penetrate their lands in order to protect the hard earned peace in Fantasia.
And some details:
The map is divided into chapters, with save avaliable. If you managed to beat a chapter, you will be given a password, which you can enter it at the begining of the next game to "continue". Some really hard chapters will even allow you and your teammates to restart it anytime you want.
A new system is found in this game: the strength system. The hero will have to switch to engage modes in this game in order to attack enemies. Strength is consumed continously as players enter engage mode, but will recharge when they are out of it. Heros leave engage mode when strength is deplated. This gives a more sensible feel for even heros get tired.
Inspired by Warcraft I also included an Aura for each hero. When in engage mode, they can give out an aura which benifits nearby units/players.
Apart from Aura there is also an unleash feature which is the spotlight of the game. During engage mode an energy bar will charge over time, displayed on the screen. Once it reaches a certain level heros can unleash the hidden power of their weapons for a powerful effect.
I have made up the first few chapters, too:
Chapter I--Gold Rush
The kingdom is at war and need gold for their armies. However, the dwarfs are refusing to hand in their gold. The heros have to make their way into the gold mine without being found and sneak the gold safely back to the king.
Ideas for this chapter: A warm up of this map. If you fail, you simply go back to start point and you will not die. Definately a bound, but the hard part is that you need to go back and fro!
Chapter II--East is East
The fortal defense is broken, armies of Flankton is too strong for ordinary commanders to fight. The heros answer the call of the kingdom to defend Nighthawk Fotress, the biggest Castle in Fantasia.
Ideas for this chapter:
A small scale battle. What makes it hard is that the computer is controlling the army while players can only control their heros manually. However, special commands like fall back, charge can be given to the computer and the soldiers will move/switch strategies accroding to your orders. The objective is to stop enemies getting in the fortress so this gonna be a defense like game.
Chapter III--Black and White
Dispite of the failed attack of Nighthawk Fotress, Flankton is still pressing hard, determined to take it down with their fangs and claws. However, news had been sent that the enigmatic Black Knights are attacking the Frost Harbour, the heart of Fantasia's economics. The king decided to unleash his legendary White Knights, but he needs one of the heros to lead them.
A cut scene is shown here showing how the 12 Black Knights destroy a LARGE castle within the blink of an eye and the heros will need to decide who is going to lead the White Knights and who will stay helping the Nighthawk Fotress. Their decision will not affact the whole game.
Ideas for this chapter:
A large scale battle. Whoever is staying will gain control of all the troops in the Castle, and the one leading the White Knights will gain control of the 12 White Knights. For those defending the castle they will have a hard job because they will have to keep their heros alive while stopping the enemies get close. Seige Engines, Assassins, Archers all pour into the battle field and the player has to micro really hard. For the White Knights they have to find the fastest possible way to Frost Harbour for now.
Chapter IV--Bad gets worse
Not to be disclosed yet as it's not complete.
I need a team to help with this project. Anyone?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2004-07-28 at 15:33:41
Sounds very complex. I can't help you out sorry, but I'd like to see screenshots when you have em 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SaLaCiouS(U) on 2004-07-28 at 15:45:58
In my expierence, a team project is generally a disaster. Your "team" wouldn't know what you want out of the map, and that's especially true for terrain. It is 100% impossible for someone else to create terrain the way you want it. The only solution I can see is for you to learn the basics of creating good terrain..
The terrain should not be boring or plain to look at. You have to vary it up, don't make straight lines for cliffs or rivers. Try to make things organic by throwing in blemishes in the terrain. Make grass patchy, make rivers bent, use all of the terrain options. I assume you will be using Jungle, so use rocky ground, use the mud, use Raised jungle, use everything at your disposal! Look at other maps for examples.
Also, Doodads! Doodads make terrain look nice, and you should use a lot of them. However, do not spam them across the entire map. You have to use variety and spread them out as you have only a limited number.
As for your other problem, which was setting the Health of units, there really is no good way to do that. Just slap some values on you think are good, then play the map and work out new ones as you go along.
For your first level, which will be bound-like you've said, I don't see how that could introduce the player to the rest of the game. The other chapters aren't bounds at all. Hopefully you will have some fighting too, to teach the players about the "Engage" system. As for the bound itself, I would suggest NOT using square terrain, as this is an RPG. I don't know if you remember Ice Bound, but not all bounds are exploding archons. There are many other tricks and traps you can use, I suggest you check it out.
The terrain should not be boring or plain to look at. You have to vary it up, don't make straight lines for cliffs or rivers. Try to make things organic by throwing in blemishes in the terrain. Make grass patchy, make rivers bent, use all of the terrain options. I assume you will be using Jungle, so use rocky ground, use the mud, use Raised jungle, use everything at your disposal! Look at other maps for examples.
Also, Doodads! Doodads make terrain look nice, and you should use a lot of them. However, do not spam them across the entire map. You have to use variety and spread them out as you have only a limited number.
As for your other problem, which was setting the Health of units, there really is no good way to do that. Just slap some values on you think are good, then play the map and work out new ones as you go along.
For your first level, which will be bound-like you've said, I don't see how that could introduce the player to the rest of the game. The other chapters aren't bounds at all. Hopefully you will have some fighting too, to teach the players about the "Engage" system. As for the bound itself, I would suggest NOT using square terrain, as this is an RPG. I don't know if you remember Ice Bound, but not all bounds are exploding archons. There are many other tricks and traps you can use, I suggest you check it out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by iamandragon on 2004-07-28 at 22:38:28
Okay thanks for nothing...joking.
Probably you guys are right...I might just as well do it alone. Terrain is not a matter because I have absolutely no idea(blank head) how to do it. Thanks for your advice SaLaCiouS(U) (can I just call you Sala?) on it I think I have a general idea of how to do the terrian.
I dunno about the health and attack and such that, but I know there will be no upgrading units so it will be a bit easier for me to decide how to set it up. Besically the three heros are Archer, Mrymidon and a Swordsman. And I will need to try as hard to as possible to make their hp, attack and defense different so each of them has a weakness. I am thinking of having a low armor for knight so that ranged units will really pick them off, a low attack for Mrymidon so huge units can trouble them and a low hp for Archer so they fear to be ganged up.
The first level is more of an introduction, where players get a feel of the game. There will be a few more bounds in future chapters where they have to infiltrate enemy bases but let's put it aside. The reason I am making a bound is that the heros starts off unarmed so there is no way I can let them engage. The bound should be easy in the first one, just avoiding Dwarfs and sneaking behind them.
I always am troubled by the engage system because it sounds complex for me too. I might just include a tutorial in between chapter 1 and 2 about the engage system and aura stuff. Players can choose to listen to the tutorial or not although all of them have to agree to skip it or else it will just go on.
Here is more details of Chapter 4:
Chapter IV--Bad gets worse
The Black Knights are defeated easily, in fact, too easily. A spy spotted the reason behind that--those are no the Black Knights. To the worse of all, the Black Knights had changed course and are heading towards Nighthawk Fotress!
Ideas for this chapter:
Another defense game. The two heros guarding Nighthawk Fotress will have to hold on the enemies while the civilians (unarmed) retreat under the protection of soldiers. The level gets harder and harder because everytime a number of unarmed leave, a few soldiers will leave with them so you will have less units to fight with. Meanwhile, the White Knights will need to brought back to the palace asap so the hero can go back and fight with the other two. (Dont worry here heros teleport between palace and the Fotress hee hee)
Chapter V--Infiltration
The Flankton defeated Nighthawk Fotress and they are gathering in front of the palace! The palace has a mere guards and the White Knights, which is no match for them. A spy suggested that if the heros can infiltrate the Flankton camp and assassin their commanders it would force them to retreat, buying themselves time. There are a total of 8 commanders in the camp, and the royal assassins divide their job between themselves and the heros.
Ideas for this chapter:
Another bound. This is gonna be much harder because of the massive soldiers patrolling around. If you are caught, you might simply restart the level. However, some guards kill you so best beware. There are a total of 4 commanders in their camp and all of them can take quite a beating. When the heros get near the commander there will be a timer and the heros will need to kill him within the timer or else soldiers will pour in and kill you. I will include a cut scene showing how the assassins kill the other commanders each time you kill one. Restartable level.
Well, how's that?
Probably you guys are right...I might just as well do it alone. Terrain is not a matter because I have absolutely no idea(blank head) how to do it. Thanks for your advice SaLaCiouS(U) (can I just call you Sala?) on it I think I have a general idea of how to do the terrian.
I dunno about the health and attack and such that, but I know there will be no upgrading units so it will be a bit easier for me to decide how to set it up. Besically the three heros are Archer, Mrymidon and a Swordsman. And I will need to try as hard to as possible to make their hp, attack and defense different so each of them has a weakness. I am thinking of having a low armor for knight so that ranged units will really pick them off, a low attack for Mrymidon so huge units can trouble them and a low hp for Archer so they fear to be ganged up.
The first level is more of an introduction, where players get a feel of the game. There will be a few more bounds in future chapters where they have to infiltrate enemy bases but let's put it aside. The reason I am making a bound is that the heros starts off unarmed so there is no way I can let them engage. The bound should be easy in the first one, just avoiding Dwarfs and sneaking behind them.
I always am troubled by the engage system because it sounds complex for me too. I might just include a tutorial in between chapter 1 and 2 about the engage system and aura stuff. Players can choose to listen to the tutorial or not although all of them have to agree to skip it or else it will just go on.
Here is more details of Chapter 4:
Chapter IV--Bad gets worse
The Black Knights are defeated easily, in fact, too easily. A spy spotted the reason behind that--those are no the Black Knights. To the worse of all, the Black Knights had changed course and are heading towards Nighthawk Fotress!
Ideas for this chapter:
Another defense game. The two heros guarding Nighthawk Fotress will have to hold on the enemies while the civilians (unarmed) retreat under the protection of soldiers. The level gets harder and harder because everytime a number of unarmed leave, a few soldiers will leave with them so you will have less units to fight with. Meanwhile, the White Knights will need to brought back to the palace asap so the hero can go back and fight with the other two. (Dont worry here heros teleport between palace and the Fotress hee hee)
Chapter V--Infiltration
The Flankton defeated Nighthawk Fotress and they are gathering in front of the palace! The palace has a mere guards and the White Knights, which is no match for them. A spy suggested that if the heros can infiltrate the Flankton camp and assassin their commanders it would force them to retreat, buying themselves time. There are a total of 8 commanders in the camp, and the royal assassins divide their job between themselves and the heros.
Ideas for this chapter:
Another bound. This is gonna be much harder because of the massive soldiers patrolling around. If you are caught, you might simply restart the level. However, some guards kill you so best beware. There are a total of 4 commanders in their camp and all of them can take quite a beating. When the heros get near the commander there will be a timer and the heros will need to kill him within the timer or else soldiers will pour in and kill you. I will include a cut scene showing how the assassins kill the other commanders each time you kill one. Restartable level.
Well, how's that?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SaLaCiouS(U) on 2004-07-28 at 23:02:49
It sounds great and I hope you get started on the map soon. Yes you can call me Sala, most people do. Mathrix(U) calls me Salad though. One question I still had though, are you planning to use square terrain for the "bound" levels? I would hope not. They sound more like Jail Escape levels too. Which is still cool. It actually sounds a lot like that Metal Gear Solid map that was popular for a while... hmmm... that is the best "bound" ever -_-
Report, edit, etc...Posted by iamandragon on 2004-07-29 at 02:37:29
Salad? Okay I'll call you Salad too...(an expert calling SaLaCiouS(U) salad...that'd make myself a bit more confident)
No I'm not gonna use square terrain cux I'm using the original Staredit. No go with the square terrain. I'll use star edit to put some invalid stuff down at the end.
Jain Escape level is kinda...different, cux the "bounds" in this game is merely to escape guards or some traps, and there's no high-tech stuff inside...
Metal Gear Solid? Never played it. Anyone who has the map please?
Another Chapter done:
Chapter VI--Devil Island
The Flankton army retreat, thanks for the infiltration. The king found this the last opportunity to attack, and the heros are there to lead their army. Death or live, this is your last chance Fantasia!
Ideas for this chapter:
Another large scale battle. Each hero gets an army of units according to their job. The Archer will get a squardern of Shield Warriors and Snipers, the Mrymidon will get horsemen and hawkmen while the swordsman will get...swordsmen.
At the end of the battle a black player cut in, announcing themselves as the Devil Island troops. The Devil Island troops are much smaller than both army, but they're a lot tougher and mean looking(ultralisk immediately comes into my mind). Their leader, Helan, orders both sides to retreat or she will start attacking. Both sides retreat, seeing their chance of victory is little, and the Devil Island troops leave as well.
Edited on 29/7, 1049
Okay guys, I have done the intro. It starts in a darkness and here's the details:
Center view at "blank"(you'll see nothing but darkness)
Mysterious Voice 1:
Forward, forward! He is only one man! Attack!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 2:
Only one man? He is no ordinary man! He is the Archsage!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 1:
One man can't change the battle! He is nothing but a mere human!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 3:
Oh, a mere human. Or am I?
Qua Ce Ris Tora!
Wait for 10 seconds
<Screams>
Play wav screams.wav
Wait for 10 seconds
Yourself:
What...what is that voice? It seems like...my past...
Wait for 8 seconds
Yourself:
Ah, I remembered. I was summoned by the king to his service.
Dozed off, I think. Okay, let's continue.
Wait for 12 seconds
Center view at "King"
King:
...so it is my greatest pleasure to have you in my sevice.
This is your mission, to retrieve the gold from those Dwarfs of greed. Down at the end of this hall our wizards have set up a portal for you three. Bring us the gold and victory shall be ours.
Then it's a long dialog within the heros, telling us what exactly happened.
Any opinions? Do you think the pause is correct?
No I'm not gonna use square terrain cux I'm using the original Staredit. No go with the square terrain. I'll use star edit to put some invalid stuff down at the end.
Jain Escape level is kinda...different, cux the "bounds" in this game is merely to escape guards or some traps, and there's no high-tech stuff inside...
Metal Gear Solid? Never played it. Anyone who has the map please?
Another Chapter done:
Chapter VI--Devil Island
The Flankton army retreat, thanks for the infiltration. The king found this the last opportunity to attack, and the heros are there to lead their army. Death or live, this is your last chance Fantasia!
Ideas for this chapter:
Another large scale battle. Each hero gets an army of units according to their job. The Archer will get a squardern of Shield Warriors and Snipers, the Mrymidon will get horsemen and hawkmen while the swordsman will get...swordsmen.
At the end of the battle a black player cut in, announcing themselves as the Devil Island troops. The Devil Island troops are much smaller than both army, but they're a lot tougher and mean looking(ultralisk immediately comes into my mind). Their leader, Helan, orders both sides to retreat or she will start attacking. Both sides retreat, seeing their chance of victory is little, and the Devil Island troops leave as well.
Edited on 29/7, 1049
Okay guys, I have done the intro. It starts in a darkness and here's the details:
Center view at "blank"(you'll see nothing but darkness)
Mysterious Voice 1:
Forward, forward! He is only one man! Attack!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 2:
Only one man? He is no ordinary man! He is the Archsage!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 1:
One man can't change the battle! He is nothing but a mere human!
Wait for 9 seconds
Mysterious Voice 3:
Oh, a mere human. Or am I?
Qua Ce Ris Tora!
Wait for 10 seconds
<Screams>
Play wav screams.wav
Wait for 10 seconds
Yourself:
What...what is that voice? It seems like...my past...
Wait for 8 seconds
Yourself:
Ah, I remembered. I was summoned by the king to his service.
Dozed off, I think. Okay, let's continue.
Wait for 12 seconds
Center view at "King"
King:
...so it is my greatest pleasure to have you in my sevice.
This is your mission, to retrieve the gold from those Dwarfs of greed. Down at the end of this hall our wizards have set up a portal for you three. Bring us the gold and victory shall be ours.
Then it's a long dialog within the heros, telling us what exactly happened.
Any opinions? Do you think the pause is correct?