Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-08-21 at 00:52:05
Hi, I've decided to remake some of the Dawn of War skirmish maps into SCM/SCX format. I want to know what you think of them as standard melee maps.
-Absolute Zero-
These two bitter-cold promontories are reowned for their stratigic importance, and their harsh, freezing winds. Troops unifortunate enough to be assigned here have given several nicknames to the post, "Absolute Zero" being the least profane.
(Absolute Zero Trashed)
-Face Off-
It is so noted that on this land two mighty warriors faced off in epic battle. It is said that should you wish to prove your worth to the chapter, you shall face your most challenging foe on this hollowed ground.
Update: Face Off tweeked. Absolute Zero trashed.
Update: Face Off v2.1
Update: Face Off v2.2
Update: Face Off v3.0
Update: Face Off v3.1
Update: Face Off v4.0
Update: Face Off v4.2
-Absolute Zero-
These two bitter-cold promontories are reowned for their stratigic importance, and their harsh, freezing winds. Troops unifortunate enough to be assigned here have given several nicknames to the post, "Absolute Zero" being the least profane.
(Absolute Zero Trashed)
-Face Off-
It is so noted that on this land two mighty warriors faced off in epic battle. It is said that should you wish to prove your worth to the chapter, you shall face your most challenging foe on this hollowed ground.
Update: Face Off tweeked. Absolute Zero trashed.
Update: Face Off v2.1
Update: Face Off v2.2
Update: Face Off v3.0
Update: Face Off v3.1
Update: Face Off v4.0
Update: Face Off v4.2
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dumbducky on 2006-08-24 at 14:00:46
Why does it seem that their is a lot of unused space.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-08-24 at 16:25:05
Why does it seem that statement doesnt help me in anyway?
I didnt know that some open, or unused, space is bad. It gives our mans some space to do their stuff and die. But if you are implying that i should fill some of that "unused" space with doodads, I can do so. Specificly on the high ridges of Absolute Zero and on the asphault and low-dirt parts of Face Off.
I didnt know that some open, or unused, space is bad. It gives our mans some space to do their stuff and die. But if you are implying that i should fill some of that "unused" space with doodads, I can do so. Specificly on the high ridges of Absolute Zero and on the asphault and low-dirt parts of Face Off.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-08-24 at 16:39:52
Aesthetically, the 1st one is rather plain. Vary your terrain types.
The second one is a bit better, but not by much. Lots of asphalt and dirt doesn't really please the eye.
Balancewise, the two maps are symetrical, so the bases are even.
In the first map, it looks like siege tanks might be able to fire over the ridge into the other players base, although I'm not sure of that. I'm not going to say much more at the risk of being wrong. One last note though: I don't like the way you've set up some of your mineral areas.
In the second map, I'd like to see more minerals at the expansions. The bottom middle base especially needs more, seeing as it is so easily attacked from several different directions. Its not worth getting and defending as it is now.
That's all I'm going to say.
The second one is a bit better, but not by much. Lots of asphalt and dirt doesn't really please the eye.
Balancewise, the two maps are symetrical, so the bases are even.
In the first map, it looks like siege tanks might be able to fire over the ridge into the other players base, although I'm not sure of that. I'm not going to say much more at the risk of being wrong. One last note though: I don't like the way you've set up some of your mineral areas.
In the second map, I'd like to see more minerals at the expansions. The bottom middle base especially needs more, seeing as it is so easily attacked from several different directions. Its not worth getting and defending as it is now.
That's all I'm going to say.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-08-24 at 16:48:51
Sometimes copying a melee map doesn't do well in here. For one thing, you may not copy it well, and the players of the game you're talking about will most likely critize you. Also, the maps aren't really good for melee and it looks like you've done both is under 5 minutes. Nice idea tho. I'll download them and play 'em just to make you happy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-08-24 at 18:07:10
Updated in first post
I updated Face-Off and agreed with you guys that Absolute Zero should be trashed. Is Face-off looking any better? (I took Dumbduckys implications and applied them
. Hopefully there is no more "useless" space)
For killerKow's suggestion about adding more minerals to the bottom middle base, how much more should I add?
I updated Face-Off and agreed with you guys that Absolute Zero should be trashed. Is Face-off looking any better? (I took Dumbduckys implications and applied them
. Hopefully there is no more "useless" space)For killerKow's suggestion about adding more minerals to the bottom middle base, how much more should I add?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-08-24 at 20:08:20
With the new nats brought in, its not as necessary, especially since its a gas expo.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-06 at 13:51:42
i think there are too few minerals for the min and gas ratio. leaving toss behind, then zerg and terran at the top. thats taking into consideration the cliffs and all that.
to improve the map, add mins some where in expos or add 2 more smaller min expos and maybe find a way to keep terran from being able to cliff everything.
to improve the map, add mins some where in expos or add 2 more smaller min expos and maybe find a way to keep terran from being able to cliff everything.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-13 at 17:22:20
Alright, I added some more minerals to the expos and added 2 more 'sub-expos' to provide said toss with more minerals. Any suggestions to prevent TOO much terran tanking from happening?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-13 at 21:49:02
widen paths between mains a bit, and make the wall thin where units would enter a base so tanks cant get up at the choke. just because its based on dawn of war or whatever doesnt mean it has to be just like it. the biggest thing to change is the big platforms between mains.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-24 at 19:30:41
Okay I tweeked some more things. I added more access ramps to add more flanks to the substructures, making them harder to defend.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Valug on 2006-09-25 at 19:43:13
[sub]The mains are too open, try to place them in a way so they are easier to defend early game. Zerg rush will have it really easy if toss/terran can't defend properly.
Maybe you could expand the substructure under each base to the sides of the map, and move the ramp directly above the base a bit more to the middle, closer to the choke.
Besides that, the map is just a little boring. The big substuctures in the middle seem more of just fillers then actually vital to the map.
The top middle expansion does not seem worth taking, move the minerals in closer so they are not hard to mine and amybe add more mineral nodes there aswell.
And I feel the whole bottom of the map will be unused, not sure really how to fix that.
Not sure if this was your first map, if it was, it was much better then my first.[/sub]
Maybe you could expand the substructure under each base to the sides of the map, and move the ramp directly above the base a bit more to the middle, closer to the choke.
Besides that, the map is just a little boring. The big substuctures in the middle seem more of just fillers then actually vital to the map.
The top middle expansion does not seem worth taking, move the minerals in closer so they are not hard to mine and amybe add more mineral nodes there aswell.
And I feel the whole bottom of the map will be unused, not sure really how to fix that.
Not sure if this was your first map, if it was, it was much better then my first.[/sub]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-09-25 at 23:32:51
zergling guerrella tactic and late second hatchery seems the way to be for zergs.
I suggest you change the map into U shaped map with a blank in the middle. It will be interesting to see all the dropships, shuttles, and overlords shoving around in between in middle of the games.
I suggest you change the map into U shaped map with a blank in the middle. It will be interesting to see all the dropships, shuttles, and overlords shoving around in between in middle of the games.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-26 at 23:18:17
Alright I think this is as good as it's gonna get. Any last suggestions?
(the reason why i had the minerals arranged oddly at the top of the map was to try to discourage people from going there for a second or third base and use the buttom portion of the map instead.)
(the reason why i had the minerals arranged oddly at the top of the map was to try to discourage people from going there for a second or third base and use the buttom portion of the map instead.)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-27 at 16:01:20
I admit its decent for basing it off of another game, it would be fun, though probably not well balanced at all. I'm interested to see how it turns out. I plan to spend some time on weekends to play worthy maps since nobody else seems to test thier own. If any wants to join me, just pm me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-27 at 19:04:20
Yeah thanks. But sometimes you guys need to realize that tanks are a NATURAL advantage. Just because you can pop one up on a single cliff the melee people of sen go crazy over it. But yeah I do realized it should be stressed a little more on this map. So thanks for the tips, they actually have givin me a few ideas for different maps.
(i'm going to leave this topic open for a little bit longer)
(i'm going to leave this topic open for a little bit longer)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-27 at 19:43:29
You shouldn't really close it anyway, maybe someone who hasn't seen it can make a decent comment if its still somewhat an alive topic. Anyway, its not just the cliff, its the fact that it has narrow entrances to the main and to the cliff, try attacking a terran when they have 5-12 tanks up there.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-27 at 23:57:07
Well when that situation arises i usually pull my attack back and form a defencive perimiter arround their controlled land, then build up a decent air offencive with ground support.
But If the terran player is pretty aggressive, he or she will probably use the upper structure to advance on my base. So I think I'm going to make it hard for tanks to access the upper structure area with the minerals.
To add the to the fact that you can no longer use the upper structure to move tanks on a cliff to the opponent's base, I made it impossible for tanks or any heavy ground unit at that matter to access the top expansion without getting a dropship or mining out those minerals. Also, knowing that terran will take advantage of the upper structure to keep foes out of the expansion, I got a rid of the vespene gas in that very expansion, to make it a little less important. The gas that the terran will need to build more tanks will no longer be supplied through that expansion.
But If the terran player is pretty aggressive, he or she will probably use the upper structure to advance on my base. So I think I'm going to make it hard for tanks to access the upper structure area with the minerals.
To add the to the fact that you can no longer use the upper structure to move tanks on a cliff to the opponent's base, I made it impossible for tanks or any heavy ground unit at that matter to access the top expansion without getting a dropship or mining out those minerals. Also, knowing that terran will take advantage of the upper structure to keep foes out of the expansion, I got a rid of the vespene gas in that very expansion, to make it a little less important. The gas that the terran will need to build more tanks will no longer be supplied through that expansion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-28 at 16:53:31
I really like your persistance and determination.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-28 at 19:28:52
Can you post an image of the map your'e trying to recreate? Im just curious.
In regards to the terran issue, simply pulling back and teching doesn't help, terran can oppose any protoss force with tanks, vults and gols. Besides, they'll just chase you back to your main and pin you in.
In addition to what Killer Kow said, Its always good to stay positive and to continue trying. It usually makes people who are giving criticism more happy to give it as well.
In regards to the terran issue, simply pulling back and teching doesn't help, terran can oppose any protoss force with tanks, vults and gols. Besides, they'll just chase you back to your main and pin you in.
In addition to what Killer Kow said, Its always good to stay positive and to continue trying. It usually makes people who are giving criticism more happy to give it as well.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-09-30 at 15:50:40
This map looks nothing like the original now (it barely did from the begining) so it really doesnt matter. It also doesnt help when the original map is 3D and starcraft is isometric.
Anyways i've sort of updated the map and have vastly changed the way things work on it by adding a river. I still need to make the orignal bases but do you think this will help in the balancing of things?
Any suggestions for what i should do in the main bases when it comes to cliffs and how to integrate a second base?
Anyways i've sort of updated the map and have vastly changed the way things work on it by adding a river. I still need to make the orignal bases but do you think this will help in the balancing of things?
Any suggestions for what i should do in the main bases when it comes to cliffs and how to integrate a second base?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-30 at 16:09:57
I'd suggest changing the bridges in the middle there to connect with the bottom section, as apposed to the two mains. Where they are now, your mains are very close together.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-09-30 at 17:17:46
Its a really akward setup. I guess thats a good idea. Its still pretty tight, and I dont know what to really suggest unless you wanna renovate alot more.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scinadier on 2006-10-02 at 19:33:27
Alright it's updated, how about this?
I also have a replay of me vs a computer on this map if you are interested. Though Itd be better if you simply played it instead. (attached to this post)
(it looks a lot better in game)
I also have a replay of me vs a computer on this map if you are interested. Though Itd be better if you simply played it instead. (attached to this post)
(it looks a lot better in game)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-10-02 at 21:13:42
I just watched the replay for laughs and I enjoyed it. 
Ok, since you got youre basic shape, lets fix a few technicalities. The natural can be easily secured by controling one long, thing bridge. Itll be hard to attack an expansion that has one small entrance. My solution is to add another bridge. You may even have to take out that small high ground expo to do it.
Too few minerals at the mains, why did you put so few throughout the map? Usually 7-9 at main and no less than 6 at expansions.
One last thing, there are two routes to get to the other side of the map, why not at a land bridge in the middle? Itll intensify gameplay for sure.
Good work.
Ok, since you got youre basic shape, lets fix a few technicalities. The natural can be easily secured by controling one long, thing bridge. Itll be hard to attack an expansion that has one small entrance. My solution is to add another bridge. You may even have to take out that small high ground expo to do it.
Too few minerals at the mains, why did you put so few throughout the map? Usually 7-9 at main and no less than 6 at expansions.
One last thing, there are two routes to get to the other side of the map, why not at a land bridge in the middle? Itll intensify gameplay for sure.
Good work.