Report, edit, etc...Posted by xMCx on 2006-08-25 at 21:35:30
Why in every decent storyline does good have to be omnipotent (Invincible/All powerful) and always win? I would like to read a decent storyline where evil prevails through the story and finally truimphs at the end. (Zerg's victory in SC is likely to be reversed in the next sequal.) Everyone knows the storyline between God and the devil's rebellion, and how God was omnipotent and won. Games could be more fun if "evil" occasionally won. Often times more people enjoy playing the "evil side", such as in World Of Warcraft. So why, I must ask, can the creative storyline creator not kill of the Harry Potter, the Luke Skywalker, or the peaceful "Humans" off occasionally. Evil is always overpowered in human nature.
QUOTE(VoidArchon(MC)?)
Soccer Moms, children, and people with a high sense of morals find it unwilling to play the "bad guys".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by lonely_duck on 2006-08-25 at 21:45:26
It would be very hard to pull off an "evil wins zomg" story without people thinking it's just a novelty story; you know just to see evil win once.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Vibrator on 2006-08-25 at 22:12:08
People don't want to see evil win, ever. Even if the story is predictable and lame we always want "our" side to win.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by xMCx on 2006-08-25 at 22:44:01
The sad thing is that people can become emotionally attached to a fictional storyline.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-08-25 at 22:56:56
In literature, try Othello (sort of) or Hamlet. Or Lord of the Flies, that's a good one for evil winning, or 1984 or Animal Farm.
As for games, well, it'd be kind of silly for evil to win, because then the player's side would have lost. In my new SC campaign, the good guys are on the defensive for almost all of the storyline and only barely scrape up a victory, at the cost of almost everything. But you can't have them lose, because then everyone would say "What the heck? Is that IT? After all that, I lost?" Game makers want to sell games, and who's going to buy a game that they're inevitably going to lose after ten+ hours of gameplay?
That's a sign that the story's writer is doing a good job. When he/she can make you care about the characters, that means that they're real enough that you see them as actual people, not just as fictional ones.
As for games, well, it'd be kind of silly for evil to win, because then the player's side would have lost. In my new SC campaign, the good guys are on the defensive for almost all of the storyline and only barely scrape up a victory, at the cost of almost everything. But you can't have them lose, because then everyone would say "What the heck? Is that IT? After all that, I lost?" Game makers want to sell games, and who's going to buy a game that they're inevitably going to lose after ten+ hours of gameplay?
QUOTE
The sad thing is that people can become emotionally attached to a fictional storyline.
That's a sign that the story's writer is doing a good job. When he/she can make you care about the characters, that means that they're real enough that you see them as actual people, not just as fictional ones.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by lonely_duck on 2006-08-25 at 23:59:12
Who reads a story when you can't relate and or care about the characters?
It would be like reading a text book.
It would be like reading a text book.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-08-26 at 01:51:46
QUOTE(Lord_Agamemnon @ Aug 25 2006, 07:56 PM)
In literature, try Othello (sort of) or Hamlet. Or Lord of the Flies, that's a good one for evil winning, or 1984 or Animal Farm.
As for games, well, it'd be kind of silly for evil to win, because then the player's side would have lost. In my new SC campaign, the good guys are on the defensive for almost all of the storyline and only barely scrape up a victory, at the cost of almost everything. But you can't have them lose, because then everyone would say "What the heck? Is that IT? After all that, I lost?" Game makers want to sell games, and who's going to buy a game that they're inevitably going to lose after ten+ hours of gameplay?
That's a sign that the story's writer is doing a good job. When he/she can make you care about the characters, that means that they're real enough that you see them as actual people, not just as fictional ones.
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As for games, well, it'd be kind of silly for evil to win, because then the player's side would have lost. In my new SC campaign, the good guys are on the defensive for almost all of the storyline and only barely scrape up a victory, at the cost of almost everything. But you can't have them lose, because then everyone would say "What the heck? Is that IT? After all that, I lost?" Game makers want to sell games, and who's going to buy a game that they're inevitably going to lose after ten+ hours of gameplay?
That's a sign that the story's writer is doing a good job. When he/she can make you care about the characters, that means that they're real enough that you see them as actual people, not just as fictional ones.
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Yeah.. was going to say, have you ever taken a high school English class?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-08-26 at 01:58:47
You just need to branch out and read some more and watch different movies. The very best stories have a more ambiguous tone, rather than good wins over evil. And in real life, even if the "good" (which is simply a point of view, I should add) wins, its never without cost. No one in real life, or a story that is more faithful to real life, walks away from a struggle unscarred. Find some more of those types of stories.
Why is that sad? Are you saying that anyone who cares about characters that aren't real are suckers? If you really feel that way, then I can see why you can't enjoy stories.
QUOTE(xMCx @ Aug 25 2006, 09:43 PM)
The sad thing is that people can become emotionally attached to a fictional storyline.
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Why is that sad? Are you saying that anyone who cares about characters that aren't real are suckers? If you really feel that way, then I can see why you can't enjoy stories.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-08-26 at 02:04:48
The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy are your friend.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-08-26 at 02:24:00
We need a concentrated dose of George Orwell, Philip K. Dick, and The Twilight Zone, stat.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-08-26 at 05:41:10
Ask yourself this: did you use to call characters "good guys" and "bad guys" when you were little ? I think we all did that. "Good people and "Bad people" is just a stereotype.
I think a good, diverse and unfolded storyline must show everything from two points of view, and not lable some characters "Good", and others "Bad"
Personally, I like undefined endings because that way every person can build his/her own guesses about the future.
I think a good, diverse and unfolded storyline must show everything from two points of view, and not lable some characters "Good", and others "Bad"
Personally, I like undefined endings because that way every person can build his/her own guesses about the future.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-08-27 at 01:01:47
People like a balance of sorts. If the good guys win all the time, it gets boring. If the bad guys win all the time, it also gets boring. Why do people not like to play rigged games? Because you can ultimately guess the outcome and it bores you. Likewise, you don't want people to win all the time. You don't want to always know what will happen.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by uberfoop on 2006-08-27 at 01:07:38
A good story is one where one side seems ultimately screwed but comes back to kick arsonskie in the end, through some means that the reader just totally didnt expect.
But yea, being human means we get bored if 'different' things don't happen. Gosh, why do you think the nations are always at war and never meld into eachother? life just doesnt satisfy some people if they aren't blowing somebody else up.
But yea, being human means we get bored if 'different' things don't happen. Gosh, why do you think the nations are always at war and never meld into eachother? life just doesnt satisfy some people if they aren't blowing somebody else up.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-08-27 at 01:51:16
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Aug 25 2006, 11:23 PM)
We need a concentrated dose of George Orwell, Philip K. Dick, and The Twilight Zone, stat.
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How can you forget Ray Bradbury? Another really depressing author.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-08-27 at 10:21:14
While we're at it, let's toss in George R.R. Martin, where everybody dies! 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dumbducky on 2006-08-27 at 10:26:20
I actually read on the internet that Harry Potter might die in the final book. Although I don't know how you do that and still end the book.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-08-27 at 11:58:33
After J.K. Rowling went all cruel and starting killed people off mercilessly, I really wouldn't put it past her to kill Harry in the last book; all "great literature" has a bad ending.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-08-27 at 16:18:27
You consider Harry Potter great literature? The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy has a pretty depressing ending, after 5 cheerfully upbeat books. Everybody dies.
And what about movies that portray the badguys winning? Inside Man, The first 3 StarWars, World Trade Center. Etc.
And what about movies that portray the badguys winning? Inside Man, The first 3 StarWars, World Trade Center. Etc.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-08-27 at 19:21:16
In Inside Man he's not a bad guy..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-08-27 at 20:10:47
There is less conflict to the "evil" side, if you didn't notice. I find that the best stories are when the line between good and evil are blurred. Basically, when both sides have a good cause, but both must make sacrifices as well, no matter how horrid they may be.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-08-27 at 20:40:02
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Aug 27 2006, 06:20 PM)
In Inside Man he's not a bad guy..
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Bank robbers aren't bad?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-08-28 at 11:45:42
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Aug 27 2006, 01:50 AM)
How can you forget Ray Bradbury? Another really depressing author.
I've only read one book by Ray Bradbury, so I can't say anything about him as an author.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-08-28 at 18:40:21
If team rocket beat Ash and stole Ash's pikachu then there would be no more pokemon... 
But anyway, it sort of feels good to be the good guys and win in a video game, at least for me. Slaying bad guys is fun
But anyway, it sort of feels good to be the good guys and win in a video game, at least for me. Slaying bad guys is fun
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-08-28 at 18:49:06
QUOTE(dumbducky @ Aug 27 2006, 10:25 AM)
I actually read on the internet that Harry Potter might die in the final book. Although I don't know how you do that and still end the book.
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Ten bucks says Hermione goes first.[right][snapback]551744[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(voyager7456(mm) @ Aug 27 2006, 04:18 PM)
You consider Harry Potter great literature? The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy has a pretty depressing ending, after 5 cheerfully upbeat books. Everybody dies.
And what about movies that portray the badguys winning? Inside Man, The first 3 StarWars, World Trade Center. Etc.
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And what about movies that portray the badguys winning? Inside Man, The first 3 StarWars, World Trade Center. Etc.
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Way to ruin the story for me!
By the way, Inside Man was a great movie
I like movies that aren't feel good, like AI. That was a great movie.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-08-28 at 23:04:25
QUOTE(Syphon(MM) @ Aug 27 2006, 05:39 PM)
Bank robbers aren't bad?
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It's not like he stole a bunch of stuff... just the evidence that the guy was evil and a think a few diamonds.