Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2006-09-23 at 00:15:49
One of my friends from College is taking a Child Psychology course, in which a very interesting topic came up which he explained to me. Psychological and Biological reasons for sexual preference, wether it be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual.
Here is my conclusion about it:
This issue starts at the moment of fertilization, specifically in the 23rd chromosome. Initially, during our pre-fetus stage, we all initially start out as women hormone wise. The reason for this is because estrogen is produced first, and at this stage, we don't have any defined sexual organs. As the fetus grows, it's sexual organs start to develop and produce it's according hormones, mostly testosterone for testicles and estrogen for ovaries. But XY fetuses do have estrogen and XX has testosterone, but in proportional amounts for each sex.
The problem starts when, for example, not enough testosterone is produced by the male, thus having a high proportional percentage of estrogen. This would make most males act like females, but not feel wrong in any way, they think it's normal. This doesn't mean that they are homosexual, some people that act like the opposite sex actually prefer the opposite sex sexually. The other way goes for female in this example.
Now the second part in deciding sexual preference, is the ambient in which the child is raised. Sometimes, depending on the situation, being raised in an enviroment that promotes heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality or asexuality will greatly influence the child's mind. The child will most possibly think of such act(s) between X party/parties, a normal act, and thus, could change, or direct, his/her sexual preference.
Because of hormonal imbalance, and an enviroment that "promotes or stimulates" such sexual prefrerence, all people will uncounsiously have a sexuall preference without choosing. One does not choose his/her sexual preference because he/she feels like doing so. Sexual preference is determined by your genetic code and the psycological enviroment in which a person is raised. Most of the time both need to be on the same track, but either area can be the influence.
Here is my conclusion about it:
This issue starts at the moment of fertilization, specifically in the 23rd chromosome. Initially, during our pre-fetus stage, we all initially start out as women hormone wise. The reason for this is because estrogen is produced first, and at this stage, we don't have any defined sexual organs. As the fetus grows, it's sexual organs start to develop and produce it's according hormones, mostly testosterone for testicles and estrogen for ovaries. But XY fetuses do have estrogen and XX has testosterone, but in proportional amounts for each sex.
The problem starts when, for example, not enough testosterone is produced by the male, thus having a high proportional percentage of estrogen. This would make most males act like females, but not feel wrong in any way, they think it's normal. This doesn't mean that they are homosexual, some people that act like the opposite sex actually prefer the opposite sex sexually. The other way goes for female in this example.
Now the second part in deciding sexual preference, is the ambient in which the child is raised. Sometimes, depending on the situation, being raised in an enviroment that promotes heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality or asexuality will greatly influence the child's mind. The child will most possibly think of such act(s) between X party/parties, a normal act, and thus, could change, or direct, his/her sexual preference.
Because of hormonal imbalance, and an enviroment that "promotes or stimulates" such sexual prefrerence, all people will uncounsiously have a sexuall preference without choosing. One does not choose his/her sexual preference because he/she feels like doing so. Sexual preference is determined by your genetic code and the psycological enviroment in which a person is raised. Most of the time both need to be on the same track, but either area can be the influence.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-09-23 at 02:04:26
I never said it because it might be "politically incorrect"... but it always seemed logical to me that homosexuality in males could be influenced by a lower production or amount of testosterone.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stilth on 2006-09-23 at 14:52:41
I believe both unbalanced hormonal levels during pregnancy in the womb and life experiance are factors to it. Apparently everyones part gay.
They also have this theory that a smaller hypothalamus plays a role in it.
They also have this theory that a smaller hypothalamus plays a role in it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-09-23 at 15:04:45
It's got nothing to do with hormones, it's got nothing to do with the length of some part of your brain, there is no "gay gene", there is no biological binary sexuality switch.
You want to know why these assumptions are untruthful? Because you're working backwards from a conclusion. "Homosexuality must be caused by something biological! Let's go find something that proves it!"
The idea of hormonal imbalance, as far as I know, has yet to be actually tested, and the hypothalamus study was BULL. Two of the gay men autopsied actually had among the largest hypothalamus' of the group, but the results were NOT compared to the heterosexual men. It's obvious that the researchers were grasping at straws, to the extent that their conclusion denied evidence directly in front of them.
You want to know why these assumptions are untruthful? Because you're working backwards from a conclusion. "Homosexuality must be caused by something biological! Let's go find something that proves it!"
The idea of hormonal imbalance, as far as I know, has yet to be actually tested, and the hypothalamus study was BULL. Two of the gay men autopsied actually had among the largest hypothalamus' of the group, but the results were NOT compared to the heterosexual men. It's obvious that the researchers were grasping at straws, to the extent that their conclusion denied evidence directly in front of them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-09-23 at 15:14:18
Okay Wilhelm, now that you're done explaining what it's not, how about telling us what you think it is?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-09-23 at 15:19:36
It's a feature of your personality, as much as your other preferences and dispositions towards other things. It's something that forms and changes as you grow up as much as anything else that makes up your person.
In comparison:
You can't predict whether your kid is going to be a kind person or not, and it's pretty much impossible to make someone into a kind person, so it's best if you don't focus on chiseling them into a perfect person and just raising your goddamn kid.
In comparison:
You can't predict whether your kid is going to be a kind person or not, and it's pretty much impossible to make someone into a kind person, so it's best if you don't focus on chiseling them into a perfect person and just raising your goddamn kid.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-09-23 at 15:25:35
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Sep 23 2006, 02:19 PM)
In comparison:
You can't predict whether your kid is going to be a kind person or not, and it's pretty much impossible to make someone into a kind person, so it's best if you don't focus on chiseling them into a perfect person and just raising your goddamn kid.
[right][snapback]566492[/snapback][/right]
You can't predict whether your kid is going to be a kind person or not, and it's pretty much impossible to make someone into a kind person, so it's best if you don't focus on chiseling them into a perfect person and just raising your goddamn kid.
[right][snapback]566492[/snapback][/right]
Unless you have a very, very gay baby. The kind that coos with a lisp and never has a soother out of it's mouth.
Truthfully, I think it's cause for the same reason. If we were raised in a predominantly gay society I bet we'd have alot more flamers.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-09-23 at 17:39:31
Yes, I believe (majority wise) that the reason many people are gay is the environment/society that they live in.
The hormones thing doesn't explain why some men/women go from being gay to straight....
The hormones thing doesn't explain why some men/women go from being gay to straight....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gamma on 2006-09-23 at 21:32:01
The rare few gays I have met seemed to have a secluded personality. Whether that is a reason or side effect, I would not know.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-09-23 at 22:26:53
QUOTE(Gamma @ Sep 23 2006, 08:31 PM)
The rare few gays I have met seemed to have a secluded personality. Whether that is a reason or side effect, I would not know.
[right][snapback]566700[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]566700[/snapback][/right]
Um... again... Gamma, you are not offering any new argument to the issue. But by the way, Gays aren't any different from you except they like different people.
Alrite. Gay people are different because they have lived in a different society. If society supresses one to become very active, that person would be active as well. In same theory, if society around you isn't really all that strict on who you should like, you are most likely to become gay. the term "gayness" isn't a quality. It should be rather "openness to other sexes".
I mean the psychology class learning how biology plays role in the sexual preference is the dummest thing I have ever heard, and of course no offence to you beer.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2006-09-24 at 16:07:36
While on the topic of hormones, I have a theory about extreme feminists.
I'm pretty sure these extreme feminests just have more testosterone than the usual woman would, thus making them more agressive.
I think its ironic how the one thing they hate most (men) are more like that what they actually are.
I'm pretty sure these extreme feminests just have more testosterone than the usual woman would, thus making them more agressive.
I think its ironic how the one thing they hate most (men) are more like that what they actually are.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gamma on 2006-09-24 at 17:14:48
I thought hormones is what makes people have more adrenaline. In that case there should be more "Homosexual" athletes respectively.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-09-24 at 18:37:31
I think it's a combination of a lot of things. I don't think the percentage of people that are gay is getting larger, but rather the percentage of people being open about it (or other types of sexuality for that matter) is getting larger because society is being more accepting of them.
Just like the rest of psychology, it's a combination of biology and environment.
Just like the rest of psychology, it's a combination of biology and environment.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-09-28 at 22:55:40
I'd just like to point out that Hormones hardly are explanations in themselves.
We produce hormones for what surroundings were given, for example we produce Ghrellin when we need more food, making us feel hungry, we produce epinepherine and norepinepherine when we feel we are in danger. We produce serotonin when we are being pleasured, (or oxytocin if you have sick pleasures
)
The fact is is that hormonal responces are all reactionary from our environment and how our body is reacting to the environment.
The way I see it, is that the cause of homosexuality would not be defined as simply one cause, although I would guess it is primarily dealing with the experiences of the individual, and more importantly how those experiences shaped the way they think. (Similarly to why neglecting a child makes them emotionally distant as an adult.)
One other thing I'd like to point out is how some other hormones besides testosterone and estrogen are probably comming into play. For example, it was found in a study that when you give someone an injection of melanin, which is seen primarily in skin cells and gives us pigmentation; it gave many of the males in the study erections. (Which basically says that it has something to do with the sexual organs as well.)
I would not doubt if it is a hormonal imbalance, the the question remains as to what is causing this imbalance.
We produce hormones for what surroundings were given, for example we produce Ghrellin when we need more food, making us feel hungry, we produce epinepherine and norepinepherine when we feel we are in danger. We produce serotonin when we are being pleasured, (or oxytocin if you have sick pleasures
)The fact is is that hormonal responces are all reactionary from our environment and how our body is reacting to the environment.
The way I see it, is that the cause of homosexuality would not be defined as simply one cause, although I would guess it is primarily dealing with the experiences of the individual, and more importantly how those experiences shaped the way they think. (Similarly to why neglecting a child makes them emotionally distant as an adult.)
One other thing I'd like to point out is how some other hormones besides testosterone and estrogen are probably comming into play. For example, it was found in a study that when you give someone an injection of melanin, which is seen primarily in skin cells and gives us pigmentation; it gave many of the males in the study erections. (Which basically says that it has something to do with the sexual organs as well.)
I would not doubt if it is a hormonal imbalance, the the question remains as to what is causing this imbalance.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-09-30 at 16:27:45
In that case, you can fix it and everyone becomes perfectly straight and wonderfully balanced?
This is why I dislike the "gay is biological argument", because then it becomes a curable disease. There's no evidence towards it being something physical, so you have no evidence to build a hypothesis on. Rather, if you do find evidence of homosexuality being caused by a biological imbalance, form a hypothesis based on those observations, and test it in a controlled experiment. Write down your conclusion on the data, and instructions for others to reconstruct your experiment. If it is repeatedly proven in susbequent tests, congratulations, it's a theory.
That, my friend, is the scientific method. Right now you only have worthless conjecture.
This is why I dislike the "gay is biological argument", because then it becomes a curable disease. There's no evidence towards it being something physical, so you have no evidence to build a hypothesis on. Rather, if you do find evidence of homosexuality being caused by a biological imbalance, form a hypothesis based on those observations, and test it in a controlled experiment. Write down your conclusion on the data, and instructions for others to reconstruct your experiment. If it is repeatedly proven in susbequent tests, congratulations, it's a theory.
That, my friend, is the scientific method. Right now you only have worthless conjecture.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-09-30 at 20:09:03
I was simply saying it was more of a physical setting that triggered a biological response.
And just because something is biological, doesn't make it "curable." I for one would never see it as a disease, but more of a personal taste. Like my favorite color is green. But any taste is built upon our body's development of certain regions rather than others. I developed a liking for green because for some reason in my past I have either had good experiences associated with green. (Or lesser experiences with the other colors.) My brain has developed a pathway that says I like green, and my body has followed suit.
There would be no real way to "cure" such a liking; the closest anyone could do without seriously harming a participant would be to simply associate good times with another color, or associate bad times with green, but even then most likely deep rooted instincts would prevail.
I guess what I was trying to say, is that a hormonal imbalance would only really be seen as a "symptom" of the trait. The hormonal response would most likely have a positive feedback effect, meaning that the hormonal responses would then stimulate the nerve passageways. But changing the hormones alone wouldn't "cure" much of anything, and would probably just make whoever is undergoing the test simply very bewildered and confused.
And just because something is biological, doesn't make it "curable." I for one would never see it as a disease, but more of a personal taste. Like my favorite color is green. But any taste is built upon our body's development of certain regions rather than others. I developed a liking for green because for some reason in my past I have either had good experiences associated with green. (Or lesser experiences with the other colors.) My brain has developed a pathway that says I like green, and my body has followed suit.
There would be no real way to "cure" such a liking; the closest anyone could do without seriously harming a participant would be to simply associate good times with another color, or associate bad times with green, but even then most likely deep rooted instincts would prevail.
I guess what I was trying to say, is that a hormonal imbalance would only really be seen as a "symptom" of the trait. The hormonal response would most likely have a positive feedback effect, meaning that the hormonal responses would then stimulate the nerve passageways. But changing the hormones alone wouldn't "cure" much of anything, and would probably just make whoever is undergoing the test simply very bewildered and confused.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-10-01 at 09:56:36
Hitler had a solution.
Just kidding!
People can go from being "gay" to being "straight" because of their beliefs that it is wrong because their religion says so, or maybe they were just "confused" in the first place and didn't really know what they were.
Just kidding!
People can go from being "gay" to being "straight" because of their beliefs that it is wrong because their religion says so, or maybe they were just "confused" in the first place and didn't really know what they were.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-10-01 at 11:42:01
QUOTE(Felagund @ Oct 1 2006, 09:56 AM)
Hitler had a solution.
Just kidding!
Just kidding!
Stop being so politically correct. How is killing them all not a solution? It certainly solves the "problem". It's just that the solution involves... killing them all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-10-01 at 12:00:53
It's only a temporary "solution." Homosexuality isn't genetic. You know, talking about "solutions" for homosexuality makes me feel like a homophobe. Ugh.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-10-02 at 14:57:03
I'm reading an interesting book... Brain Sex. It argues that this wouldn't be genetic or socially conditioned, but rather related to hormones. Personally, it seems feasible to be and when I finish reading it I'll make some arguements with it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2006-10-02 at 18:48:04
The initial choice is obvious: homosexuality must be either biological or social. All effects have a cause. But what the freak? We can't find a cause. No matter how much research is done into the biological factors and the social factors no one can come up with an answer. Seems a tad strange, don't you think?
From a purely biological perspective, your only goal of life is to reproduce.
Of course in the end you can insult homosexuals either way.
Biological: "Go to Hell you freaking mutant!"
Social: "You have the worst parents ever, faggot."
From a purely biological perspective, your only goal of life is to reproduce.
Of course in the end you can insult homosexuals either way.
Biological: "Go to Hell you freaking mutant!"
Social: "You have the worst parents ever, faggot."
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-10-03 at 14:48:29
Biology will almost always overcome social conditioning. People HAVE found reasons, damn good ones... people just ignore them (they're politically incorrect, "immoral", or "offensive"), or so this book says. 
EDIT: Here we go.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75AC0A962948260
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10218234/
http://www.ohsu.edu/news/2004/030504sheep.html
EDIT: Here we go.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75AC0A962948260
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10218234/
http://www.ohsu.edu/news/2004/030504sheep.html