Staredit Network

Map discussion temporaly closed. I'll update the map and attach the map.


Well after several expiraments trys and decisions I finally came up with a overall good try and attempt of a melee map.
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ Scroll down for screenshot or read the information \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/

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(2)Seperated Valleys

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Players

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A good 2-4 players.

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Tileset

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Classic Jungle 128x128

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Inspiration

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It came from the ladder map lost temple and big game hunters. I adored the idea of the lost temples design and the always searching mineral patches of BGH. Now the design and layout is mostly inspired by the lost temple but some parts are loosely taken from big game hunters. I had trouble adding some lakes so I chose to put some patches.

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Style

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I did expiraments and figured out some pros and cons for each races.

Terran
Pros:Are known for there ever so going marine marches and firebat rushes but normally need time for producing there air units.

Cons: Because of some lack of geysers Terrans better get moving unless they want to do there siege tank and gol combos.

Protoss
Pros: They hardly fail when it comes to there zealots and heck they can just fight with them but supported by dragoons its a tough call. And with there photon cannons they can easily protect there new bases.

Cons: They also suffer a loss from the vespene so unless the player builds some shuttles and move to an island then they may produce there dragoon army

Zerg
Pros:No doubt do they have to worry about there defences there covered by sunks and spores. They can still produce decent air units while at the same time use there hydras and zerglings.

Cons: Findin a new base may be hard for the zerg because they must always bring reinforcements untill the hatchery starts. Unlike the terrans were they can lift command centers and move to the base itself without harm zerg must sacrifice some resources for that. Unlike protoss were there cannons are ready at any second the zerg most go stradgic and use guardians which in return blows there vespene count away.

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Resouces

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There are 12 mineral patches at each starting base. Each have minerals ranging from 200-1400. There is one vespene at each starting base consiting of only 1200 gas. But there are mineral patches located near each base but the vespenes are in common area were the fight starts. Be the first one to hold it off and you win bonus. There are also 1 vespene geyswer on each 4 sides of the map. There you can start a small defence to protect your workers.

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Weres the screenshot already!!!!

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Right here.
[url=http://imageshack.us]</a>

Thanks for reading and pleas give constructive critisism! I will post up the map after a few posts just to get some information going.

The right and left start locations have fewer ramps leading to them than the others, which could make it harder to attack them.

Well I think its the right but maybe I could balance that out.

while your balancing the ramps, you could balance the rest of the map. I dont see one geyser close enough to minerals. your pros and cons make zero sense to me.
i dont see hunter influence either.

until your pro at melee or at least understand well enough how it works, dont mess with resource count or placement. there should be the same number of ramps to each main base.

i dont know what else to say, except look at other maps, and see what they do to balance them out.

not [COLOR=red]to[COLOR=yellow] bad[COLOR=green]

you did it wrong.

[sub]And it is bad, its terrible. Don't make melee maps if you don't play melee, please.[/sub]

Oh what was that. Your lucky I didnt report that concerning it was a flame.



Rather then saying that you should just tell me what do you think is wrong about it.
And for the record I do play melee maps. I just started hating money maps so then eventually I played non-money maps (Most of them blizzards) and ya pretty much.

Addition: I appreciate your comments Infest Ghost and Yenku

I can defeat that comment in many ways.


Actual your slightly wrong on that account. When I play tested this map at least 4 times it seems that for all races might be on the same mineral count. If you control the middle you can only get mineral based units. If you control any of the 4 corners you can get just more then mineral based. Also not all minerals are 1500



Not nessisarly. (sp) A so called easy win for a terran is really the siege tanks. Unless zerg doesnt tech to mutalisk then they'll have a hard time wen siege tanks roll into there bases with vultures. And then this is were the advantage comes for terran. While zerg are distracted at trying to remove the tanks terrans can easily go build command centers at many of the resource points and knock down the zerg with either wraiths or BC's if given the chance.

Same goes for protoss. Cannons cant defend your units unless seige tanks pull around the base. So that forces most to either long ranged units (tanks,reavers,guardians) or air units.

Also im gona work on the ramps and even them out.

hmm... have you played against computers? or have you played against senners? I suggest you go to asian servers and try against koreans on this map. They might be able to teach you something.

Too many minerals and too short of surfact area to cover it. It takes too long to get the mineral. it is just frustrating. Also, it is very frustrating for protoss to have very few mineral and vespene incoming.


I also suggest you put 1 mineral chunks in the islands so that terrans cannot just make CC and fly it there. this strategy was used in many korean melee maps. It will make the game fair.

ADDITION:
Also, it is impossible for red to lose.. when defending, red only has one direction to worry: south. also the platforms are uneven. purple's ramps are all over the place. I think you should put some minerals in the islands as well..

Read this guide for the basics to a balanced map:

http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=10191

I don't think anyone remembers it, but it is very helpful for beginning mappers to make a good, balanced, and fun map. And no, Blizzard maps are not good examples to look at when making a balanced melee map.

I think its a decent guide and I sure remember it.

DeadlyInnocence, you seem to miss the fact that most pro maps are no longer coming from Korea.

One thing goose, if you decide to change nothing else, at least place minerals correctly. Take a look at Lost Temple, or anoter pro map to see how. If bunched up, unreachable minerals cause workers to try and find a way to them which makes them useless and annoying.

Why did you call it (2)Seperated Valleys when it has 4 players?

Bleh I never understood what the (#) ment so I just too a guess and bleh came from the back of my head.

ROFL

A little advice, not just in map making, but in life... don't use terms you don't know the meaning of. It's pretty sad you couldn't figure it out ;P You obviously need to play a little more.

ON TOPIC:

The first imbalance that should be most obvious to you, is that some of the bases have more ramps than others, in different proximities to one another. Don't do this. All players should start equal. If you do this, even a same race matchup will be imba.

Another thing to think about is how close together the locations are, and how there are multiple choke points to each base. Doing this mean you're basically telling Protoss to 2Gate Zeals every game against Terran, and for Terran to get a fast bunker and marines just to survive the early game. Then when Toss gets goons/storm it's all over for the Terran.

There are a whole bunch of other imbalances with this map, but those are the ones you should work on first, when you create your next map (trash this one).


ALSO: If you want constructive critism, don't just throw around random terrain. Make it look like you actually put a solid effort into the map. This doesn't look like much thought went into it. You get back what you put into the map (and in this case, a lot more).

PS: Expect less than kind critism in melee maps. Some people are downright mean persons and should be ignored, but many just want to send a strong message.

Bleh I don't want to scrap this one. It was one of my star maps. (no pun intended)
I will work and improve the imbalances. (Yes for those who pointed out the ramps Ill balance those in the meen time)

Yippie. How bout the minerals?

Actually, if you define a pro map as one that is used in a major tournament, then all pro maps come from Korea and are made by a special team of map architects that work for OGN and MBC. No foreign map has ever really gone mainstream, unless you cound Sattarchasm which was used for PGT, but even then, it will never be a mainstream map like, say, Luna, Rush Hour, or even Nostalgia or Blade Storm.

Ok, well we use "pro" loosely, it usually means for money, but the PGT isn't for money, despite the Pro. And most of the newer maps on it, and for blizzcon, from places other than Korea (like my Euro friends from BWMN.

For some reason both posts contradict each other.

Let me clear it up for you. The guide is useful for newcomers. Use it.