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Staredit Network -> Lite Discussion -> Tolerance
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 00cnr on 2006-10-25 at 19:26:22
I'm posting this in response to a misunderstanding which mutated into an argument which completely strayed away from the original intent of the topic, which can be found here.


My opinion is that people need to be accepting of others who have different views on certain issues, ex. homosexuality. I feel (in regards to my school) children are extremely homophobic and often violent to gays and lesbians. Many homosexuals at my school feel the need to hide their sexual preference from others for fear of what may happen to them. This feeling of danger is far from foolish. In the United States, the FBI reported that 15.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were based on perceived sexual orientation. 61% of these attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against GLB people at large made up 20%. [1] Even, in certain countries, homosexuality is punishable by death:
Iran
Mauritania
Nigeria
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
This is not just limited to sexual preference. Sexism, racism and bias toward race, ethnicity and religion are a serious problem in today’s society. In my opinion, all forms of racism are wrong. But, this problem is near impossible to deal with.

How do you feel about sexism, racism and the likes? Defend your views

EDIT: Spelling and Grammar.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-10-25 at 19:31:14
Maybe it's just me, but the the races here all have specific qualities to them, makes me distinguish them, and treat them differently. With that being said, I don't condemn people to how their race acts.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 00cnr on 2006-10-25 at 19:38:02
QUOTE(Deathawk @ Oct 25 2006, 05:30 PM)
Maybe it's just me, but the the races here all have specific qualities to them, makes me distinguish them, and treat them differently. With that being said, I don't condemn people to how their race acts.
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Yeah... I really have noticed certain differences in how different races of people act in my school. But, there are many differences within each race of people, making for a very diverse population even with a limited range of ethnicity.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-10-25 at 19:51:15
I don't judge solely based on age, sex or race. If they act stereotypical, which a lot of the time, is the case, then I'll treat them demeaningly or regard them highly, but only based on what they do or say, and by say, I mean any kind of speech, including clothes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-10-25 at 21:13:22
Ditto to what Deathawk and Kow said. Don't take this as racist, but whenever I see an African-American wearing baggy clothes and acting all 'gangsta', I would be wary of them, try not to do anything insulting, such as staring. I don't act the same way towards whites wearing the same clothes, at least not to that extreme.

But this doesn't mean that if I get to know an African-American who seems nice and all that I would act wary around him. It's just before I know someone, I trust in stereotypes I've noticed to be true myself, and after I know them, I judge them by how I know them to be.

And about sexuality, I don't care about that at all. Actually I've never really known anyone know I knew for sure was gay, but I don't think I'll care much. Especially once I get to know them.

All these ism's are a result of often accurate stereotypes, people acting like their race/sex/sexual preference is sterotypes, and narrowmindedness (my least favorite quality). Sometimes I just want to kill people who are strongly 'ist' against some type of person.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-10-25 at 21:50:49
I always say, Stereotypes don't become stereotypes by being false.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by 00cnr on 2006-10-25 at 21:53:14
Yeah. Where I live, which is anything but the ghetto, many whites and African-Americans act as if it is and let on that they have such a hard life. Just to clear this up, in my city, everyone is extremely well of compared to others. We're ranked #2 city in the nation by Money magazine, if I remember correctly.

EDIT:
QUOTE
I always say, Stereotypes don't become stereotypes by being false.

Many stereotpyes are accurate... to a certain degree. There are a multitude of stereotypes that will correspond to a certain group of people in a specific race/ethnicity etc. that is the complete opposite for a second group in that same race/ethnicity. Stereotypes might have some fact, but will never be able to accurately define a race/ethnicity to every last person.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-10-25 at 22:04:23
No generalization can. Hell, you can say all 'black' people have dark skin, but that may not necessarily be the case 100%.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-10-25 at 22:37:20
Being black is a state of mind... heh... wonder if anybody will get that.

Yeah, but to what Centreri said, I don't know a single gay person as a friend.. only know Wilhelm, and some senior guy on the gay straight alliance club at my school.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-10-25 at 23:58:38
QUOTE(00cnr @ Oct 25 2006, 05:25 PM)
How do you feel about sexism, racism and the likes? Defend your views
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Oh, I think sexism and racism are sexy. On a serious note, no wait, don't you think that everybody on this site will say sexism and racism is bad? Isn't it an obvious answer? Why even ask it? If they agree with racism or sexism, it's obviously going to be out of sarcasm. I may say racist or sexist jokes, but it doesn't mean I'm racist or sexist. People should have tolerance, but some lines should be drawn when it comes to being extreme on a subject, which is what generally becomes the problem.

However, I see the main problem you point out is sexual preference. Been through a lot of these, never any with a real serious take since most of the stuff I say on here I say or do just to anger people. Now, my true belief on the take of sexual preference is not a matter of genetics. I believe it's developed by your surroundings. This is hard to prove, actually, it's too hard to prove. Every person is too unique to test, after all, the slightest change of an event or perspective you have can change the rest of your life. Could hormones have something to do with sexual preference? The initial hormone release of the beginning of puberty could have an effect, but doubtfully as much of an impact of your surroundings.

Why do I believe this? Well, my sister is a lesbian, and throughout her life, she has surrounded herself with very awkward friends and even teachers who have advocated homosexuality, not in a way where the teacher sat down, stared in her eyes, and said homosexuality is good, but rather that the teachers were, well, butch (probably lesbians themselves). I'm not saying that their pure focus in life was about sexuality which made her a lesbian, but it was just all the small things: the bandana, doing more "boy" things or attitude, relationships, talk, etc. Do I have anything against her friends? No, it's hard for me to hate people, instead I just anger them for my own amusement.

One person isn't enough to prove a theory.

True, but it does give a good impression when you see a sibling or friend go through the whole "came out of the closet" deal and reflect back on their lives to see why it happened the way it did.

So do I believe sexuality is really a choice? Perhaps choosing your environment and what you do in your life, sure. After they defined their sexual preference? Not really, if somebody does, it probably just means they're bisexual. So if it isn't a choice for people who've already set their sexual preference, should we be tolerant? Yes.

So what was the deal with the 'Screen Theme' topic?

I was bored, I felt like angering people because I find it hilarious. What will people do? Say mean words to me? That makes me chuckle inside.

So for those who don't want to read all the junk I just said, here's a brief summary:
-I believe people should have more tolerance.
-I believe sexuality is based off your environment and has little to do with hormones.
-I like to anger people, so don't take me too seriously.
-I'm against racism, sexism, religious or athiest, etc. acts that put others in a negative light. (Such as actual malice.)
-Pie is good.
-I don't believe that sexuality is a choice after enough influence has been put on a person to define their sexual preference.

Mmm, pie.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-10-26 at 00:46:53
QUOTE(00cnr @ Oct 25 2006, 06:25 PM)
How do you feel about sexism, racism and the likes? Defend your views
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I actually believe that racism and sexism stem from the most basic need for adults to quickly assess situations and make quick judgements that are best for their survival. Like Kow says, stereotypes don't exist for no reason. If I say "ASIANS ARE STEALING OUR WHITE WOMEN!!!", no one will lift an eyebrow because that pattern of behavior is not associated with people of asian heritage. But if I say "BLACKS ARE STEALING OUR WHITE WOMEN!!!", then I'll have an army of Emmett Till assassins at my disposal. That's just one example of behavior that certain people in certain brackets of society will find offensive and typically associate with various ethnic groups.

I'm not gonna jump up and say those things are bad just because "enlightened (but self righteous) society" says they are. As I was saying, as you mature, you MUST develop the ability to make as many quick and accurate assumptions as possible because you simply don't have the time to investigate every single case. I personally believe that racism and sexism are associated with this development. If you consistintly have negative experiences or hear about others who've had negative experiences with a group of people that have a trait in common (such as skin color, gender, location, etc), then you will tend to avoid exposing yourself to other people with the same traits.

With all truth and honesty, I have some racist and sexist attitudes. If I'm walking down the street, and I see a group of black males approaching from the other direction, I will do my best to avoid making eye contact, as I don't want some sort of conflict to occur (which from what I've seen personally, they'll try to murder you if you're hand is in a certain position that they don't like). For all I know, they could be training for priesthood, but my assumptions will typically prevent me from bothering to learn more about them. Same goes with women. I assume that most women are needy, selfish, childish brat addicts that want to be punished, and I usually treat them as such. Of course, I feel very refreshed if I find out I'm totally wrong about my assumptions, but that has proven rare so far.

The key word here is TOLERANCE. While the prejudices I have will result in me either trying to avoid conflict with some and manipulate others for sex, some people have violent reactions to those same feelings. The very same feelings that make me want to lock my car doors in black neighborhoods will cause some to fly off the handle and want to kill. That's truly terrible. I heard of an ex politician from the south beat up a nine or ten year old black boy for some retarded reason. That's a terrible lack of tolerance.

I believe tolerance is what should be taught, because I don't believe racism and sexism will EVER go away. Everyone will develop some kind of attitude towards some group of people in their lifetimes, I don't care how saintly you believe you are. But the reactions you have to these people don't have to be violent.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MasterJohnny on 2006-10-26 at 02:17:17
QUOTE(Kow @ Oct 25 2006, 04:50 PM)
I don't judge solely based on age, sex or race. If they act stereotypical, which a lot of the time, is the case, then I'll treat them demeaningly or regard them highly, but only based on what they do or say, and by say, I mean any kind of speech, including clothes.
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Agreed. I hate people equally..without judgeing their race or anything...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SiLeNT(U) on 2006-10-27 at 00:05:15
I noticed most ppl on this board admit to having a little bit of black prejudice, just enough to ensure their safety. That's a good thing in some ways, it'll cut down on the unnecessary confrontations, so in a way stereotypes are a good thing. It becomes a bad thing when people take it to an extreme and kill and commit hate crimes for those reasons. I congratulate the people on this board for actually admitting their prejudice, the truth and the matter is that most people do and those who don't admit it are simply lying. As for me, I'm african myself so I'm not really bothered by big groups of black people most of the time. However, I probobly have some other prejudice I can't think of right now.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2006-10-27 at 10:15:27
QUOTE(Deathawk @ Oct 25 2006, 10:36 PM)
Being black is a state of mind... heh... wonder if anybody will get that.

Yeah, but to what Centreri said, I don't know a single gay person as a friend.. only know Wilhelm, and some senior guy on the gay straight alliance club at my school.
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OMFG I thought that was only a my school kind of thing! Wtf? They're spreading! Where do you live?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)Blu on 2006-10-27 at 11:24:19
I'm pretty sure that my school isnt the only place where this is happening: During lunch, I've noticed that the majority hang out with the same race. Every one has their "place" the blacks hang out with the blacks, and the whites with the whites. Could it be that people are still racist? Last year at my school, the biggest fights occured at the end of the year. It was a fight between blacks and asians, then there was another where it was blacks vs whites! Even the Latino's hang out with the same race, except they seem to care more about south, east, north, and west. disgust.gif
Added: Also there was an incident where we had the school went into lockdown because the KKK were looking for someone. We were told that where I live is the home to most KKK members around. Things aren't going in the right direction in my town closedeyes.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-10-27 at 13:12:02
QUOTE(SiLeNT(U) @ Oct 27 2006, 12:04 AM)
I congratulate the people on this board for actually admitting their prejudice, the truth and the matter is that most people do and those who don't admit it are simply lying.

Those who don't admit to having prejudice are lying? WTF? Believe it or not, there are non-black people who don't have any prejudice against blacks.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by EcHo on 2006-10-27 at 13:34:47
QUOTE
14% against lesbians

Whoever is against that is truely gay themselves.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-10-27 at 16:49:56
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Oct 27 2006, 12:11 PM)
Those who don't admit to having prejudice are lying? WTF? Believe it or not, there are non-black people who don't have any prejudice against blacks.
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I would say he's right for the most part. Most people that say they are not racist are just trying to make themselves look good, even if they do harbor deep, almost unconcious, racial prejudiceses. I hear some people (especially middle age to older people) "I have friends that are black" or "Mrs. Robins is a nice lady, but she's black." And who could forget John Kerry's intelligence-insulting statement "I am fascinated by hip-hop culture." BAH! I don't doubt there are a FEW who are mostly unracist (or at least not racist towards Africans), but nearly all who claim to be are lying to protect their image.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-10-27 at 19:01:51
QUOTE(Kow @ Oct 27 2006, 10:15 AM)
OMFG I thought that was only a my school kind of thing! Wtf? They're spreading! Where do you live?
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Massachusetts.

(Sorry for the... 1 word post.. just answering his question blushing.gif )
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2006-10-27 at 19:44:32
QUOTE(Mini_Boobs_2707 @ Oct 27 2006, 05:34 PM)
Whoever is against that [lesbianism] is truely gay themselves.
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Not true. I find lesbianism and the thought of lesbians together (even hot ones) doesn't do anything for me at all, and I'm not gay. I've always worried about guys who are strongly homophobic yet get turned on by lesbians.

I don't think that you can be homophobic and pro-lesbian without being an enormous hypocrite or even having some gay tendencies yourself. Apparently most men have some 'gayness' in them, and the most homophobic are most likely to have repressed gay urges themselves. Because they hate this about themselves they strike out at anything that reminds them of it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-10-28 at 02:53:00
Criticism is human nature. We can witness this everywhere, from news reporters only telling us the stories about tragedies, (Why are the obituaries in the newspaper?) to school children spreading rumors about who is a nymphomaniac, to actual prejudices. They are all similar.

If you count the number of times people are quick to comment on correcting a fault rather then praising an action, you find that, excluding friends and people you consider close, the populace does not compliment one another. When many people see someone they don't really know that well they don't come right up and compliment them, they sorta stand their and glance if anything. Most of the time we don't even notice anyone until they do something that is "wrong" in our viewpoint.

When you view someone as dissimilar to you, making a connection between you and them often becomes harder. Unless for the cases when rank would become a part of the play. If someone is in the "cool" group, many who do not know them would want to get to know them. (Although much of the time these people are jerks.) Or if someone is in a higher social standing then you, you try to work your way up, it's simple human nature. Now when you are higher then someone on this theoretical ladder in the social system we live in, with the idea that it is easier to point out the flaws in someone rather then what they excel at; it becomes almost second nature to find out the flaws in other people, and let them into your social group only when they don't "annoy" you. Annoyance simply meaning you can spot obvious (or sometimes not so obvious) flaws in their character. Now, what you consider a flaw is not necessarily a flaw in another persons perspective. This depends upon upbringing and social cues that have been standardized in a persons history.

For instance...
Say someone was brought up in a house hold where swearing was not allowed at any costs, and they developed an idea that people who swear simply demoralize he population. They would see a peer who swears excessively as being an idiot. Someone who was brought up where swearing allocates an expression or emphasis on feeling would see that same person who swears as being very expressive and truthful to themselves and other.

This difference in opinions, combined with our societies focus on the problems, rather then the qualities, in our life, is what brings upon prejudice in its many forms. If we want to fight prejudice, we need to teach kids (and adults, who have such great influence upon kids that it would become essential) to compliment each other more. This alone would solve many problems in a world of prejudice. We as a country have tended to look only at the fixing peoples opinions that is wrong, but having an opinion is at essence the very reason of life. Changing someones opinion is much harder then simply giving them ways to make friends. We all want to make friends, and if we don't thats just more reason pointing to how bad the system is right now.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tango on 2006-11-09 at 18:46:14
I wish all people could live in harmony together, unfortunately that will never happen. If countries did try to become more tolerant it would be better for everyone.
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