Staredit Network

Well, I figured since I think I've managed to debug this thing, I'd post it here to give it some more exposure. It's not really completed in the sense that I still have plans to add to it, but it is completed in the sense that it's playable, seems to work properly and could stand alone if necessary. If this kind of map belongs in the Maps in Production Forum, some moderator can go ahead and move it there. Or delete it if you think I'm spamming.

As far as I know, this is an entirely new kind of map; I've never heard of any StarCraft map like it before. For those of you who haven't read my Dynamic AI thread, basically in this map up to four players take on the roles of gods, each ruling over a computer follower, and they have to get their follower to win through casting various spells that become available throughout the game. For any of you who have played Populous or Black and White, it's a similar idea. It was made almost entirely in the Campaign Editor, with SCMDraft used to make a few modifications that the Campaign Editor wasn't capable of.

So far I've recieved mixed feedback on the game; some people called it insanely boring and left, while some others said it was fun and a couple people even said it would become the next Fork Defense and that they'd try editing it themselves. If it doesn't sound like it appeals to you, then it probably won't, so don't play it, but for those of you who like the idea, I'd appreciate some feedback by people who don't play nothing but ReAvAr DeFeNsE; Gods does require some patience and it's not easy to learn, although I did add a spell guide which will hopefully improve the learning curve. Also, I still have 11 slots left for spells that aren't yet used, so if you have any ideas for interesting spells that aren't yet in the game, I'd be interested to hear them. If you can report bugs that'd be nice too. And if anyone wants to edit the map themselves, they can go ahead, I never protect my maps.

All that said, you should be able to download it here, or alternatively [shameless advertising]you can click on the link in my signature.[/shameless advertising] So far I have been unable to get it uploaded to here or to starcraft.org, but as soon as I do I'll change the links (as it is I'm not sure how much bandwidth Yahoo gives me, and besides it'd be nice to not to have to put them in ZIP format).

Seems to be nice map. The idea is very good for sure. Although I did't play so long because launched it in single as there were no peple around willing to play and get bored after the while. But I suppose that if I'd give some patience and would play with my friends it could be quite emotive :]. Anyway it lacks some effort put to make coloured strings and better outfit. I don't have any objections for the main game area but contol panel is pretty... emty and monotonic - two buildings, one beacon and plain around here. Try to make it more interesting by making some square terrain patterns for example. On overall you're on a good way as I believe. Good luck with that map .

By the way, if you're playing it singleplayer, you should understand that I have it set up such that on multiplayer the number of followers is dynamic (it matches the number of gods) but on singleplayer (or on multiplayer with only one player) all four followers are automatically present. This is basically to make the singleplayer version viable while keeping multiplayer fair. And yes, come to think of it, playing it on singleplayer first might be a good way to learn it before taking it onto battle.net.

As for a more interesting control panel and colored text, well, the latter I don't yet know how to do having used the Campaign Editor almost exclusively, so I'd have to go look it up. However, the latter would be quite easy in SCMDraft so I'll consider it (I would like to make the control panel a little more 'heaven' looking if possible ). One thing, though, you must understand that I want the temple wall (or at least something unwalkable and preferably high to block vision) between control panels to sort of put barriers on where you can go with your spells. I also want a large open area because once you've got some 19 land spells (counting Devouring One which is not currently used but will be in the future), you sort of want to sort them out by type and preferance and a lot of open area helps you do that.

Also, what about the idea of having a patch of terrain beside the beacon to mark a 'cast once' area in which it orders the unit to the other side of the beacon? Might be useful for casting things like cosmic ripple or spawn warriors only once if you had to.

EDIT: I went through the jungle terrain tiles, and quite honestly I couldn't find any that would really enhance the control panel. The only thing I can really do to improve it at this point would be to make it ruins instead of jungle, which might make it slightly more attractive and realistic, as well as easier to find units on. However, I may add some sprites to the control panel just for some interesting effects. Can anyone tell me which sprites last forever and which don't, or if all of them do? Also, if you know some appropriate sound effects for certain currently soundless spells (all but lightning and meteor), that could also be useful to enhance the feel of the game.

To be honest I don't understand what do you mind . But the best method of using spell exacly once is moving chooser back to his start position in the trigger that inits spell.

What about terrain - I'm not a good terrainer but I know that that is possible to do very interesting things using any of terrain tilesets. I suggest you to look to Terrain forum here and see some screenshots from terrain leaderboard. Some of them are really stuning. But such effect require a lot of experience and time. You could eventually ask some skilled terrainer to do it for you and paid in minerals for it ; .

Barriers you said about aren't really necessary. You can make it from unwalkable square terrain (f.e water) as well if it will only seems more esthetic for you. Try to experiment.

Well, that's the case for most spells. However, a few, like spawn warriors, cosmic ripple and the resource spells, don't teleport back so that you can go on casting them several times in a row without difficulty if you want to. To cast them only once, you can just send them to the other side of the beacon, but I was saying that having a special location there for doing it might make it easier. I'm not sure, though, it might just make it too complicated.

Well, I'm not too good at terrain either, especially not with the rectangular brushes, which is why I usually prefer to use the standard isometrical brushes. But my main problem with this idea is that I just can't find a terrain tile that would both look cool in the control panel and is walkable. :\

I'd be more inclined to make it out of something high, to keep ground units from seeing over it. Although I've started adding air spells now (converted cosmic ripple to Artanis and made another spell for I think Kukulza), so it's not so necessary so long as the pushback (or whatever it's called) is in place.

EDIT: Also, if anyone can tell me how to make the followers have shared vision with their gods, using the Campaign Editor and/or SCMDraft, I'd really like to know that. And if it's impossible with those, then I'd really like to know how I can make some other editor that can do it work and then how to do it in that editor.

EDIT: Is no one else at all interested in my map?

It's very easy: make a trigger for <who should have vision> execute AI script: turn on shared vision for <player whose shared vision you want to turn on >. It should be aviable in campaing editor too but I really suggest you to switch to some more advanced tool . And don't worry about lack of interesting of people. Make a good map firstly and then you will count for people feedback .

So it's an AI script rather than an alliance setting? Hmm, no wonder I couldn't find it. I'll go have a look at that as soon as I have the time. And I'll add some text color too at some point.

In the meantime, I'm still looking for, what is it, something like 10 new spells to fill up all the available hero slots. If anyone has any ideas that aren't already in the game, I want to hear them. Most especially, I'm looking for some kind of offensive spell that can be used early in the game; as it is the gods end up with way more minerals than gas.

EDIT: I tried the shared vision AI script, but it didn't work. The text colors worked fine, though. I'll update the hosted version soon, and in the meantime I'm still looking for spells.

You might have the share vision trigger backwards. It happens a bunch. Run the trigger under the human player to Run AI Script: Turn ON Shared Vision for Player (Computer). Like I always say in my map making assistance threads, it's easiest to remember in that whoever runs the trigger will now be able to see whoever you select in the drop down menu.

Once you fix it up, I'll most definitely consider trying out your map

Well that explains it. Thanks! I'll fix it soon and then upload the new version (I may add a message for a while saying it's fixed so you know when it's been fixed). I have a new kind of spell in mind I'm going to add too.

EDIT: Okay, I updated it.

Try some spells that are released by Corsair's Distruption Web. For example you can make Thunder spell that will create scarab (to put it exact: it will move scarab that was shot by some reaver hidden somewhere) for current player into the place pointed by distruption web. Scarab will seek the closest enemy and attack it . Could be used as exspensive but very powerful spell :>.

You mean, have a corsair and a trigger to detect when the corsair fires its disruption web, then teleport the scarab?

You're right. Distruption Web just like Dark Swarm is an object that can be detected by Bring condition when put in a game and then removed quickly so that it nearly can't be noticed. It's a perfect method for launching spells that shoud occur in some specified position.

Well, it's a nice idea, but unfortunately for this map I'm using observers only. Adding corsairs would do things like let you explore more areas at once, and more importantly, attack the computer's units (keep in mind that the corsair has to retain its standard stats because the computers get to use them too, and there isn't any hero). Dark swarm is slightly better because defilers can't attack, but there's the same problem with exploring and you can also block the enemy units. Sorry, but for this map I'm going with just the observers. :\

Hmm.. You can go and kill your enemies bases with the air unit spell casters...

Of course. But it can get expensive. Which is the whole point. Like I said, if you have a concern about a spell that isn't balanced, you can suggest changes (most especially cost changes, although it might be possible to have a spell that's overpowered at any cost).

Expensive? What does it cost to cloack your wraith caster and go kill all workers?

Oh, sorry, I see what you mean now. Yes. That I noticed and (to my knowledge) fixed, I believe I uploaded the fixed version a few days ago.

Sorry, you lose. Raszagal (hero Corsair) is in the Unused Units folder in Starforge.

I don't have StarForge. Besides, having a whole new unit flying around the map would have a bigger effect than merely casting spells. First, it would have to have 0 damage and 0 upgrade bonus in order to not be able to kill the computers, and even then it would still be able to explore. Also, it would make it harder to tell when you got the spell because no new unit would appear at the control panel.

No, all in all, considering I have about seven spell slots left anyway, I don't think this would improve the game any.

EDIT: However, if anyone else wants to amake a new version with this, go right ahead.

Spell idea: Battle call. Calls all units for all computers (or just all your computers units, whatever you want it) to attack to the observer. (don't flame if there is a spell like this already i have only played once)

Actually, the previous version of crusade had a similar effect, although it only worked on your follower's units. However, I found that it was just too annoying to use; your follower would leave all its bases with every single unit it had (including its workers), and even if it won the battle it would usually lose so much resource production it wouldn't be worth it anyway.

However, it is possible that a spell that did this for everyone would be more balanced. I don't have much free time for this kind of testing, but if you want to set this up and try it I'd be interested to hear about the results.

Hmm, an alteration of your Crusade spell which might be more subtle and do less damage to the caster's team could be something like this:

1. Call the spell 'Jingoism' or something similar.
2. I'm not sure what switching the main AI script for a comp in the middle of a game would do (I'm guessing it would screw it up), but you could give the caster's team a more aggressive AI script, or create locations over the main base locations of the opposing sides and, when the spell is activated, run an 'AI Harrass Here' script for your team at those locations.

Well, the thing is, I'm not sure if those AI scripts ever stop running. And if they didn't, the spell would only ever be useful to cast once. Also, if the target was the observer rather than a static location like the enemy base, it's probable that the harass location would change depending on where the observer was, even though the spell wasn't being cast.

However, I did add a new spell, call to arms. It's because I've had lots of problems with people attacking my home base while my observer was away, so I couldn't get back in time to stop them. This spell sends all your follower's guys attacking towards his own home base, and also teleports your observer back to your home base so you can help out in the battle. However, I haven't tested it yet so that version hasn't been uploaded.