Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-28 at 01:16:27
Seeing as we're in a looking-ahead mood, I'd like to bring to the table some of my thought about the future.
1. Expand Melee
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site. While that is, and should remain, our biggest dedication, I think we can begin to encompass more. Already, I see a lot of support coming here from the modding community, and our image is raised by our embracing of all branches of Starcraft.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
2. Stabilize
As we've taken over the modding community (largely), I think a major aim is to stabilize and consolidate. If we can successfully grow the melee section, we can balance out our three departments (UMS, melee, modding) and a hopefully more, if not totally, equal way. Building any melee would be a slow process and in the mean time if we can stay steady elsewhere and keep things happily running, it would be nice.
3. Summary & Notes
In general, I guess I see it this way: now that we've assimilated the modding community, it would be nice t push SEN up to being a Starcraft site. I believe it's possible to do this without losing our focus on UMS mapping, and in a quiet fashion. For increasing the Melee bloc and reorganizing the forums, I'm looking at something like this:
-SEN Functions (as is)
-General Starcraft
---Editing (Staredit Related)
---Terrain
---Ideas & Graveyard
---Concepts and Innovation
---Team
---Technical Support Forums
-----Starforge
-----SCMD
-----(space for more if/when needed)
-UMS
---Production
---Help
---Showcase
-Melee
---Matches & Strategy
---Map Showcase
---Map-Related Discussion
-Modding
---Mods in Production (+Showcase)
---Modding Assistance
-Other
---Null
-----Polling Booth
-----File Request
-----Advertising
---Lite Discussion
---Serious Discussion
---Computers & Technical
---Creative
---Games
---Welcome
-Clans & Etc. (as is)
(these are NOT final forum names, just ideas of their purposes)
What changed?
-General Starcraft got moved up
In line with my vision of a slightly broader focus, I moved the generic section above the departments and moved to it both Ideas and Concepts (in somewhat new forms).
-What happened with the merge of Ideas, Graveyard, and the move of Concepts
In my mind, there have always really been two forums: Ideas and Concepts. Ideas is for disjoint map ideas - maybe a fun RPG story of such. This fits in with the map graveyard and half-finished idea maps. Concepts is for the cutting-edge new ideas and systems. The new Concepts and Innovation forum would be for breaking developments in all areas - mainly UMS and modding. It would serve as a more general forum that focuses on the true spirit of this website - innovating and creating.
-Recommend and Review got deleted
It died. It didn't really seem to be doing anything; I don't think it's needed anymore.
-And Modding Discussion?
Modding Discussion was mostly dead, plus I looked at the topics and they can fit in a number of General forums in the new system: Concepts & Innovation for modding breakthroughs, and the generic Editing forum would be more general discussion of editing any type of Starcraft medium (UMS, melee, or modding).
-Creative?
Given the low level of activity and the burying effect that subforums have, I think that Creative would do much better as one forum dedicated to the arts - pictures, movies, music, and literature.
4. Distant Future
Nearer in said future I see the possibility of having a Section Manager for each section as a Staff position, mainly managing the DLDB, but also keeping charge of contest and such in their section.
Further in the future, I dream of going international with language support to get a handle on the Melee world. Dreams, mostly.
Thoughts?
1. Expand Melee
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site. While that is, and should remain, our biggest dedication, I think we can begin to encompass more. Already, I see a lot of support coming here from the modding community, and our image is raised by our embracing of all branches of Starcraft.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
2. Stabilize
As we've taken over the modding community (largely), I think a major aim is to stabilize and consolidate. If we can successfully grow the melee section, we can balance out our three departments (UMS, melee, modding) and a hopefully more, if not totally, equal way. Building any melee would be a slow process and in the mean time if we can stay steady elsewhere and keep things happily running, it would be nice.
3. Summary & Notes
In general, I guess I see it this way: now that we've assimilated the modding community, it would be nice t push SEN up to being a Starcraft site. I believe it's possible to do this without losing our focus on UMS mapping, and in a quiet fashion. For increasing the Melee bloc and reorganizing the forums, I'm looking at something like this:
-SEN Functions (as is)
-General Starcraft
---Editing (Staredit Related)
---Terrain
---Ideas & Graveyard
---Concepts and Innovation
---Team
---Technical Support Forums
-----Starforge
-----SCMD
-----(space for more if/when needed)
-UMS
---Production
---Help
---Showcase
-Melee
---Matches & Strategy
---Map Showcase
---Map-Related Discussion
-Modding
---Mods in Production (+Showcase)
---Modding Assistance
-Other
---Null
-----Polling Booth
-----File Request
-----Advertising
---Lite Discussion
---Serious Discussion
---Computers & Technical
---Creative
---Games
---Welcome
-Clans & Etc. (as is)
(these are NOT final forum names, just ideas of their purposes)
What changed?
-General Starcraft got moved up
In line with my vision of a slightly broader focus, I moved the generic section above the departments and moved to it both Ideas and Concepts (in somewhat new forms).
-What happened with the merge of Ideas, Graveyard, and the move of Concepts
In my mind, there have always really been two forums: Ideas and Concepts. Ideas is for disjoint map ideas - maybe a fun RPG story of such. This fits in with the map graveyard and half-finished idea maps. Concepts is for the cutting-edge new ideas and systems. The new Concepts and Innovation forum would be for breaking developments in all areas - mainly UMS and modding. It would serve as a more general forum that focuses on the true spirit of this website - innovating and creating.
-Recommend and Review got deleted
It died. It didn't really seem to be doing anything; I don't think it's needed anymore.
-And Modding Discussion?
Modding Discussion was mostly dead, plus I looked at the topics and they can fit in a number of General forums in the new system: Concepts & Innovation for modding breakthroughs, and the generic Editing forum would be more general discussion of editing any type of Starcraft medium (UMS, melee, or modding).
-Creative?
Given the low level of activity and the burying effect that subforums have, I think that Creative would do much better as one forum dedicated to the arts - pictures, movies, music, and literature.
4. Distant Future
Nearer in said future I see the possibility of having a Section Manager for each section as a Staff position, mainly managing the DLDB, but also keeping charge of contest and such in their section.
Further in the future, I dream of going international with language support to get a handle on the Melee world. Dreams, mostly.
Thoughts?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-12-28 at 02:04:57
QUOTE
1. Expand Melee
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site. While that is, and should remain, our biggest dedication, I think we can begin to encompass more. Already, I see a lot of support coming here from the modding community, and our image is raised by our embracing of all branches of Starcraft.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site. While that is, and should remain, our biggest dedication, I think we can begin to encompass more. Already, I see a lot of support coming here from the modding community, and our image is raised by our embracing of all branches of Starcraft.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
As much as I've been wanting this to happen ever since the start of 2005, it is quite a mess there. What I mean by that is not the forum itself, but the people there. The poor quality of melee maps people are producing there is just unbelievable. There are only a few good melee mappers actively participating in that area. And from some of the feedback received from the melee map making contest results, any good melee map maker can tell that the sense of judgement for good melee maps is terrible amongst many of the active users in that forum.
Aside from that, I believe there is something else that we can do within the melee community. As I've said some months ago, http://www.broodwarmaps.net has this weekly thing called "Map of the Week" where each week people get together and determine what they think is the best map that was submitted for this competition. But now, BWMN has stopped doing this, and so I believe this is SEN's calling to do the same thing. Maybe more like map of the months, but at least let there be some form of competition, kind of like minimooses monthly map making contests. And the winning maps can either be featured in a melee tournament or just be posted in the (minor) news section of this site.
QUOTE
2. Stabilize
As we've taken over the modding community (largely), I think a major aim is to stabilize and consolidate. If we can successfully grow the melee section, we can balance out our three departments (UMS, melee, modding) and a hopefully more, if not totally, equal way. Building any melee would be a slow process and in the mean time if we can stay steady elsewhere and keep things happily running, it would be nice.
As we've taken over the modding community (largely), I think a major aim is to stabilize and consolidate. If we can successfully grow the melee section, we can balance out our three departments (UMS, melee, modding) and a hopefully more, if not totally, equal way. Building any melee would be a slow process and in the mean time if we can stay steady elsewhere and keep things happily running, it would be nice.
I fully support balancing out those three departments. But I also feel as though in order to stabilize this site, then first we've seriously got to cut down on the most populated area of this site: the other forums.
QUOTE
3. Summary & Notes
In general, I guess I see it this way: now that we've assimilated the modding community, it would be nice t push SEN up to being a Starcraft site. I believe it's possible to do this without losing our focus on UMS mapping, and in a quiet fashion. For increasing the Melee bloc and reorganizing the forums, I'm looking at something like this:
...
In general, I guess I see it this way: now that we've assimilated the modding community, it would be nice t push SEN up to being a Starcraft site. I believe it's possible to do this without losing our focus on UMS mapping, and in a quiet fashion. For increasing the Melee bloc and reorganizing the forums, I'm looking at something like this:
...
If we want this to truly become a starcraft site, then we've got to start doing what other starcraft sites are doing: focusing/following starcraft tournaments and events that are currently taking place around the world. Sites like http://sc.gosugamers.net are doing such things.
As for your proposal of reorganizing our forums, I agree with it. Only thing is the Other forums. I really believe we've got to make it smaller; I like how they did it at maplantis, where they only made three sections and were pretty strict on what could go where in each forum (primarily their "null" section).
QUOTE
Nearer in said future I see the possibility of having a Section Manager for each section as a Staff position, mainly managing the DLDB, but also keeping charge of contest and such in their section.
Further in the future, I dream of going international with language support to get a handle on the Melee world. Dreams, mostly.
Further in the future, I dream of going international with language support to get a handle on the Melee world. Dreams, mostly.
Yes, I agree. And as I've mentioned earlier, I want to become the manager for the map reviews section
Now as for going international I like that idea too but for that to happen, we have to do what I've mention for #3 part a. This is the only way to bring in foreign traffic.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-28 at 03:29:32
QUOTE
As much as I've been wanting this to happen ever since the start of 2005, it is quite a mess there. What I mean by that is not the forum itself, but the people there. The poor quality of melee maps people are producing there is just unbelievable. There are only a few good melee mappers actively participating in that area. And from some of the feedback received from the melee map making contest results, any good melee map maker can tell that the sense of judgement for good melee maps is terrible amongst many of the active users in that forum.
Aside from that, I believe there is something else that we can do within the melee community. As I've said some months ago, http://www.broodwarmaps.net has this weekly thing called "Map of the Week" where each week people get together and determine what they think is the best map that was submitted for this competition. But now, BWMN has stopped doing this, and so I believe this is SEN's calling to do the same thing. Maybe more like map of the months, but at least let there be some form of competition, kind of like minimooses monthly map making contests. And the winning maps can either be featured in a melee tournament or just be posted in the (minor) news section of this site.
Aside from that, I believe there is something else that we can do within the melee community. As I've said some months ago, http://www.broodwarmaps.net has this weekly thing called "Map of the Week" where each week people get together and determine what they think is the best map that was submitted for this competition. But now, BWMN has stopped doing this, and so I believe this is SEN's calling to do the same thing. Maybe more like map of the months, but at least let there be some form of competition, kind of like minimooses monthly map making contests. And the winning maps can either be featured in a melee tournament or just be posted in the (minor) news section of this site.
I'm in complete agreement with you here, and I'm hoping that various melee promotions will help to bring in more quality to our melee department. We have you and several others that seem to be qualified melee mappers and players to help lead the movement, and hopefully as Melee is expanded and more of a department is formed, we can give more contests toward Melee.
QUOTE
If we want this to truly become a starcraft site, then we've got to start doing what other starcraft sites are doing: focusing/following starcraft tournaments and events that are currently taking place around the world. Sites like http://sc.gosugamers.net are doing such things.
I also agree here. When we expand Melee, part of this should be to get on board with some of the happening of Starcraft tournaments and personalities. I'm thinking something of this - a Site News forum and a Community News forum, one for policy and sit updates and the other for Community updates, or perhaps for portal purposes these should stay as one forum. Either way, it would certainly be nice to get more coverage of the professional Melee world.
QUOTE
As for your proposal of reorganizing our forums, I agree with it. Only thing is the Other forums. I really believe we've got to make it smaller; I like how they did it at maplantis, where they only made three sections and were pretty strict on what could go where in each forum (primarily their "null" section).
It's a nice thought, but I tend to think that this is totally impractical. The sort of small, short, and sweet Other sections of Maplantis and SEN in its early days can really only be had by small and close-knit communities. Firstly, downsizing Other would be problematic since it would displace topics and leave people with few places to put their "Other" thoughts. The sheer traffic volume through the Other forum shows how combining Other forums would create a logjam of posts.
Also, the Other forums serve an important purpose for the community. Not only do they give members a place to relax, but they also foster and retain a community. Were it not for burgeoning Other forums, I would expect that a good 75% of the retired mappers and other people here who play Starcraft no longer would leave. While you can argue that since we're a Starcraft site, we don't need these people, it feels wrong to alienate them as they have previously been contributors to this site.
Finally, the Other forums are not big or important enough, nor will I ever allow them to be, to attract people off the Internet at large solely to participate in them. So long as almost exclusively the original reason for joining SEN is to participate in Starcraft related things, I feel that the focus and theme of SEN has not been corrupted by the Other forums.
QUOTE
Now as for going international I like that idea too but for that to happen, we have to do what I've mention for #3 part a. This is the only way to bring in foreign traffic.
Yes, definitely. In my three-years-from-now vision, I see those "real" news posts on the front portal in multiple languages, plus one forum per language, members permitting, for discussion in that language. The obvious first expansion is Korean, and the central core to a plan like this is to get bi/multi-lingual Staff. A personal anecdote: I have insane ability and skill when I put my full willpower to something. The trick is actually finding the continued motivation to do it. Hopefully, I will learn Korean over the next couple years (it's on my plate), and that can build out the international outreach.
All of this is years in the future though. A functional and expansive English melee department is paramount before any international ventures are made.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-12-28 at 09:51:51
Personally, I think v4 should be migrated to v5 if possible. I'd hate to lose all the posts and history we've acquired thus far. SEN's strong point is still it's existing content. Better board software can't replace that.
ADDITION:
I like the idea of map reviews, though. I think we've been going about it the wrong way thus far. We have map spotlights already, but I'm thinking more persistent and not limited to just a handful of maps. Plus, instead of being voluntary it should be mandatory. Pick out someone each week to review the latest batch of submissions.
I've seen that done on other mapping community sites/forums and it works really well. Makes people both want to play and make maps more, knowing they'll get that individual and community attention.
ADDITION:
I like the idea of map reviews, though. I think we've been going about it the wrong way thus far. We have map spotlights already, but I'm thinking more persistent and not limited to just a handful of maps. Plus, instead of being voluntary it should be mandatory. Pick out someone each week to review the latest batch of submissions.
I've seen that done on other mapping community sites/forums and it works really well. Makes people both want to play and make maps more, knowing they'll get that individual and community attention.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-12-28 at 13:39:52
The Other forums feel kinda useless, major flamebait or spam areas.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-28 at 14:53:15
QUOTE
Personally, I think v4 should be migrated to v5 if possible.
I don't think we should even consider v5 if we don't transfer every byte of data, give or take.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-12-28 at 15:30:03
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Dec 28 2006, 02:16 AM)
1. Expand Melee
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site.
Before I even get started here, I know a bunch of you are going to yell at me for going against taboo and looking beyond solely UMS, but let's face it: SEN has gone beyond simply a UMS mapping site.
That hasn't been news for a few years now.
QUOTE
While that is, and should remain, our biggest dedication, I think we can begin to encompass more. Already, I see a lot of support coming here from the modding community, and our image is raised by our embracing of all branches of Starcraft.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
Melee is a large enough part of Starcraft that I think it deserves a little more attention. We certainly seem to have the community interest in this, so I think it would make a prudent venture. All I would see this as encompassing is expanding the Melee section by a forum or two (see a potential redesigned forum layout) and perhaps having the occasional Melee playing or mapping tourney here or there.
Agreed.
QUOTE
-Creative?
Given the low level of activity and the burying effect that subforums have, I think that Creative would do much better as one forum dedicated to the arts - pictures, movies, music, and literature.
Given the low level of activity and the burying effect that subforums have, I think that Creative would do much better as one forum dedicated to the arts - pictures, movies, music, and literature.
Maybe.
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Dec 28 2006, 04:29 AM)
When we expand Melee, part of this should be to get on board with some of the happening of Starcraft tournaments and personalities. I'm thinking something of this - a Site News forum and a Community News forum, one for policy and sit updates and the other for Community updates, or perhaps for portal purposes these should stay as one forum.
Yes, we definitely need to expand with community news. That was one of the things portal news should be used for.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Dec 28 2006, 10:51 AM)
Personally, I think v4 should be migrated to v5 if possible.
Agreed.
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Dec 28 2006, 03:53 PM)
[color=#b5b5ff]I don't think we should even consider v5 if we don't transfer every byte of data, give or take.
Oh boy. You might in for a rude awakening. I'm not saying a fresh start, but every byte might not make it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-28 at 17:25:16
QUOTE
Oh boy. You might in for a rude awakening. I'm not saying a fresh start, but every byte might not make it.
I've always had that very sickly feeling when it comes to v5..
Important things to keep:
-posts
-bans
-tutorials
-ranks
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-12-28 at 18:19:28
Ditch the bans. Kinda puts a blemish on the whole "fresh start" thing to carry old grudges with it.
Not like we can't just ban them again if need be. Who knows maybe a few of them will have learned from their old nonsense, though.
Not like we can't just ban them again if need be.
Who knows maybe a few of them will have learned from their old nonsense, though.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2006-12-28 at 18:37:48
General Starcraft really should be moved above UMS, and Modding above Melee (its more active)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2007-01-02 at 22:54:58
I completely understand the willingness to expand melee awarness. However, I think I must agree with MA, there isn't a clear or easy way to get this to happen. I think I could start a map of the month idea as MA suggested. That sounds like a good way to get things started. On top of that, I could organize dates (if not a permanent one) where we play melee maps made from SEN.
Also, now that I've been upgraded to DLDB dood I could keep up the pro section and regular map sections. I think the addition of more melee tools (Penguin Plug/BWLauncher, BWChart, pro replays, etc.) would help a ton. I'll compile a few things and add them to the DLDB.
I'll do what I can.
Also, now that I've been upgraded to DLDB dood I could keep up the pro section and regular map sections. I think the addition of more melee tools (Penguin Plug/BWLauncher, BWChart, pro replays, etc.) would help a ton. I'll compile a few things and add them to the DLDB.
I'll do what I can.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2007-01-03 at 00:50:26
My biggest hope is that by expanding and popularizing the melee department we can attract more melee talent.
Once this restructure goes through, I'll be supporting any massive PR campaigns you want.
Once this restructure goes through, I'll be supporting any massive PR campaigns you want.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2007-01-04 at 21:20:37
If you want to attract talent, we need to get some attention from BWMN mappers, if they post maps it would definately help that.