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Faith vs Logic discussion. Where do you stand, and such cliche comments.

Unfortunately, I am no good at starting debates, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Faith is something that society needs, I believe. It holds us together as much as it pits us against one another. If there was one faith the world would have peace. Other than that, I believe that if logic and faith clash, how is faith supposed to win? Is one simply supposed to give up logic?

Yeah, anyone reading this probably already knows I'm a skeptic, which means that I feel obligated to refute claims based on faith in a friendly debate arena such as this one (sometimes I come off as too harsh, and for that I apologize).

I, personally, find myself continually wishing that people could go through life without faith, but I just don't see that as a possibility. Faith is necessary in that it gives people a justification for how they act, be it good or bad. Most religions are based on the very self-preservative nature of humanity. For example, the Ten Commandments are all beneficial to primitive society in some way (though breaking some of them is now essential and inescapable in our modern society). Perhaps we're trying to justify our instinctual morally "good" behavior with faith, or perhaps people can't reconcile the fact that they would act the same without faith. I don't know, I'm not a psychologist or anything. That's why I want to know what you guys think about all this.

by trusting logic isn't that putting faith in your logic?
isn't there a connection there?

Where's Drunk when you need him?

Good enough?

Faith and Logic are two different things, having no real contradictions with each other i think...

I believe in Both.

Those are all so pestimistic points.


Jesus said in the bible that if you trust in God completely you can make a mountain jump into a lake.

faith has also saved quite a few people. Just having faith that someone was out there has kept people alive. Faith is essential. I think the world has been spoiled senseless, because they can rely on logic for all their needs, instead of putting their faith that everything will work out.

And if it doesn't work out, it's God's fault, sure.
If it does work out, it's God's fault.

Putting faith in God is willing to realize that what you want is not always best. It may get hard or whatever, but God knows what he's doing, and although it appears you are suffering right now perhaps there is a higher purpose for it.

I think you're trying to say..

there is a difference between logic, faith and blind faith

Now where does it say that in the bible


It's not really God's Fault. it's just according to his will. If things happen, then that's what's God meant to have happened. He knows everything, the future, past, and all that.

Lol, Drunk quits every few months and gives me all his minerals. Then I leave for a few days and all of the sudden he's back, posting his butt off.

To tackle this difficult question of "putting faith in logic", we have to define both faith and logic. I'm just going to link to the Wikipedia entries and then state the most relevant definitions to fit this debate situation.

Faith

Logic


These seem to be the two definitions that most closely match our previous clashes in regard to this field. Logic, it seems, is not something that you have faith in. The two ideas are opposites - you can't have faith in logic, because logic isn't a belief. It is a way to draw conclusions inferred from evidence, just as faith is a way to draw conclusions even with a lack of evidence.

Faith:
Somthing you believe in, without faith their wouldn't be moral and w/e control in the world. It would be all crazy and filled with killing! (Somthing that isnt,but make it that is.)

Logic:
that that is not is that it is that is

This is an example! logic is problem solving to get the correct answer and faith would maybe just say thats just correct the way it is!

(Answer: That, that is not. Is not that it is, that is.)

It seems this entire forum revolves around questioning religion, even if the topic does not relate to it.

Religion is a big deal for a lot of us, Revelade. And the word faith is most often used in a religious context, so discussion of religion is very relevant to this thread.

It can be argued philosophically that all of us have blind faith in logic, irrespective of what Wikipedia says.

Of course we have blind faith in logic. It's the system of interpretation that we're programmed to use, and it's useful seeing as everyone else uses it too (all to varying degrees), so we don't question it.

What does faith have to do with morals?

Smartest post on SEN... ever...

As some of you know I'm leaned all the way toward using logical rationalism. Basicly I admire and look up to those great 18th century philosophers.

It's just a matter of preference which psycoligically cannot be explained becasue we humans still can't understand how our brain works.

I would lean towards logic mainly because there is hard physical eveidence whichs cientifically proves how a certain event happened whereas in faith or religious thoughts will say that the all mighty God did that action because of actions that we have previously done.

Basically logic would prevail simply because we can explain how that event happened and why it happened. With faith we can only explain why it happened and that would be one person's subjective thought.

Lol beer, u seem to find your way around your grounding very... easily...

But people don't always get what they pray for. Otherwise, Jeffrey Dahmer would have had victims delivered to his prison cell. And he wouldn't have been raped to death in prison.

I find that logic allows us to "cut corners" when it comes to the explanation for things by using Occam's Razor. For instance, when I asked my roommate how he thought the universe began, he told me that God created the universe, possibly through the Big Bang. When I asked him what was there before God, he told me that God just exists. Well, if we use Occam's Razor, we can apply that same principle and arrive at the conclusion that the universe just exists. If God can just exist, why not the universe? Both arguments are equally valid when we make the assumption that it is possible for something to "just exist" (which is arguable, but hey, those were his premises, not mine).

Having just now realized that I got my answers to his questions from some .gif Drunk posted on these forums a while ago, I give all credit to that image.

That's because Jeffrey Dahmer isn't God. God has his own set of plans, and if it had been in God's plan, they would have been delivered to his cell.



It isn't so much that God just exists. It's hard to explain; God doesn't exist. Exist was a word created by humans, which was after God was around. It's hard to explain what exactly God is. By applying words to describe him, it's almost degrading him.

Why doesn't god just make it so everyone believes in him?

I don't know.

I'll ask Him when I get there.

But that's contrary to what the Bible says. If he believed without doubt (we don't know for sure, but criminally insane people like him can get pretty fanatical about such things) then they should have been delivered to him. Could you, potentially, pray for a million dollars and then recieve it, if you so wished? What about the people who probably have?

That might happen easier when you don't have the support of friends, relatives, etc... you got my idea (hopefully). One person is a much easier prey to those religious zealots when you're alone n' unsupported, into the fanatizing trend that is. (Recall that I didn't mention any specific religion.)
Coming to think of it better, this sorta distinguishes blind faith from plain faith. Having faith could be somewhat healthful, but relying on it too much just isn't feasible. See the next example for a sample of my view point: "I hope this trip/work/whatever turns out fine." - To me, a very good example of balanced faith.

One of the other problems related to that (faith) spoiling is perhaps caused by the morals that tagged along (with religion, mainly) from many ages now. Those have lost meaning n' decayed to some extent. Therefore, they're not fully appliable by nowadays standards.
Those do need a check-up, and maybe a do over as well, has I believe to be already said here in a earlier post.

The rest of that post, I won't go further down the lane with it, 'cause to me those are simply drawn by religious faith (n' debatable 'till exhaustion as already are).



Hence you can't explain what God/Allah/whatever is in fact. So the "exists", 'till proven, will be my best bet for it. "God" is word humans created as well, so what's your point afterall? Faith again (stumbles upon logic).

Why cannot He/She/It be something else, like an extraterrestrial entity? By this assumption, the almighty, all-knowing (read omniscient) will be out the window as I believe it to be (that btw, also fails in the Occam's Razor test). Definetly, a more possible explanation by my standards.



That also revolves 'round my previous statement (allmighty crap). But I guess that's where you're headin' too, anyway.

For sums (to me), perhaps a mid-term when regarding to faith will do wonders, by my 'book'.