Staredit Network

Staredit Network -> Concepts -> Digit System [Concept noe Finished]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 15:38:53
NOTE: This system ahsn't been tested and it's jsut a concept in writeing process. Sometimes it's betetr to use the mins/gas system but the point here is not to use them.

Remember: This system is to be used with Hyper Triggers.

*WARNING* No one has yet understood this system so you probably won't either. There is a chance of getting dumber trying to understand this complex sysetm.

Only people who have played Wc3 know what I'm talking about.

You know those Line Tower wars map that add income every time that you create a creep.
In Starcraft you would have to create 1 million triggers to create just the income system. You can't use minerals/gas because you already use mins for money and gas to buy Tower technologies.

So basicly you would have to use Death Counts. Income additions come in all sorts of numbers to you would need to create and income addition triger for every creep. Now comes the imposible to do part in Sc. Since you can't go past 65535 in Death Counts you already have a limit. Then you would have to create a trigger for each posible Death Count variable to give X money to X player.

IE: If you have 65535 different posible conditions to give different amounts of money because of different amounts of Death Counts you would need 65535 different triggers alone for that system only therefore making it imposible to finish.

I am making a system to make so that using 1 million different posible conditions make it in just 70 triggers instead of 1 million.

This is where my digit system is coming into play.

I'm using a system very similar to our current number system. I'll be suing a different death count for eash digit. Once a Death Count reaches 10 it will revert back to 0 and give 1 to the next death count in the digit chain. Therefor for 13 you would have 1 death count for X and 3 for Y. The value of X is 10 and of Y is one.

1337 would be expresed this way:
1 of A
3 of B
3 of C
7 of D

To express this in minerals
1 A = 1000 mins
1 B = 100
1 C = 10
1 D = 1

So basicly you wouldn't use a single death count and keep adding one to that count and make 1 trigger for every posible number. My system will just give you money for each value in each digit so 1 million sifferent conditions can be done with just 70 triggers. (10 for each digit).

Here's where people don't understand:
Most people would just thinkt hat they can do this with 1 trigger by using the add death count. But how would you give a different value for each different condition? By creating 1 trigger per condition thus overwhelming yourself in trigegrs and posibly reaching the limit.

My system greatly reduces the amount of triggers.
This system is only to be used in numbers greater than 30 because it is only efficient with greater numbers.

Now here's the more complicated part that almost no one is capable of understanding.

NOTE: Mathematical properties will take much more triggers

Addition and Subtraction.

You would thus make the addition per digit.
IE: 6A + 6A = 1B2A
Addittion si simple enough because you would do it the normal way of 10 of A = 1B and you would add them using the add trigger.

In Subtraction:

5B3A - 2B5A = 2B8A.

Here's the dificult part. You have more of A in 53 than 25. This means that you cannot use the current system. I am about to make a system for this but it still isn't very efficient.

Multiplication and Division.

Multiplication seems very simple but you would need to create additional trigegrs if the values goes way overboard like. 25A

Equations, Algorithms and Functions.

I still haven't thought much about this but it might be posible using over 100 different Death Count Variables.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)3 on 2005-01-22 at 15:46:51
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG[eM] @ Jan 22 2005, 03:38 PM)
NOTE: This system ahsn't been tested and it's jsut a concept in writeing process. Sometimes it's betetr to use the mins/gas system but the point here is not to use them.

Remember: This system is to be used with Hyper Triggers.

*WARNING* No one has yet understood this system so you probably won't either. There is a chance of getting dumber trying to understand this complex sysetm.

Only people who have played Wc3 know what I'm talking about.

You know those Line Tower wars map that add income every time that you create a creep.
In Starcraft you would have to create 1 million triggers to create just the income system. You can't use minerals/gas because you already use mins for money and gas to buy Tower technologies.

So basicly you would have to use Death Counts. Income additions come in all sorts of numbers to you would need to create and income addition triger for every creep. Now comes the imposible to do part in Sc. Since you can't go past 65535 in Death Counts you already have a limit. Then you would have to create a trigger for each posible Death Count variable to give X money to X player.

IE: If you have 65535 different posible conditions to give different amounts of money because of different amounts of Death Counts you would need 65535 different triggers alone for that system only therefore making it imposible to finish.

I am making a system to make so that using 1 million different posible conditions make it in just 70 triggers instead of 1 million.

This is where my digit system is coming into play.

I'm using a system very similar to our current number system. I'll be suing a different death count for eash digit. Once a Death Count reaches 10 it will revert back to 0 and give 1 to the next death count in the digit chain. Therefor for 13 you would have 1 death count for X and 3 for Y. The value of X is 10 and of Y is one.

1337 would be expresed this way:
1 of A
3 of B
3 of C
7 of D

To express this in minerals
1 A = 1000 mins
1 B = 100
1 C = 10
1 D = 1

So basicly you wouldn't use a single death count and keep adding one to that count and make 1 trigger for every posible number. My system will just give you money for each value in each digit so 1 million sifferent conditions can be done with just 70 triggers. (10 for each digit).

Here's where people don't understand:
Most people would just thinkt hat they can do this with 1 trigger by using the add death count. But how would you give a different value for each different condition? By creating 1 trigger per condition thus overwhelming yourself in trigegrs and posibly reaching the limit.

My system greatly reduces the amount of triggers.
This system is only to be used in numbers greater than 30 because it is only efficient with greater numbers.

Now here's the more complicated part that almost no one is capable of understanding.

NOTE: Mathematical properties will take much more triggers

Addition and Subtraction.

You would thus make the addition per digit.
IE: 6A + 6A = 1B2A
Addittion si simple enough because you would do it the normal way of 10 of A = 1B and you would add them using the add trigger.

In Subtraction:

5B3A - 2B5A = 2B8A.

Here's the dificult part. You have more of A in 53 than 25. This means that you cannot use the current system. I am about to make a system for this but it still isn't very efficient.

Multiplication and Division.

Multiplication seems very simple but you would need to create additional trigegrs if the values goes way overboard like. 25A

Equations, Algorithms and Functions.

I still haven't thought much about this but it might be posible using over 100 different Death Count Variables.
[right][snapback]130228[/snapback][/right]

Pretty ambitious. Adding and subtraction will be pretty easy. You fix the triggering into the way we do long term addition and subtraction by hand. That makes the easy operations fine. However, you could also do triggering for multiplication the same way we do it by hand too. The advantage of what you're doing is that the digits can be controlled. This allows hundreds of possibilites. Good work.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 15:50:16
Thanks, finally someone that understands.

Anyways yes you do ahev a good point there. There only problemw ith subtraction is the example I posted which I am making a way to go around it.

If I can make equations/functions/algorithms then I would have made the Sc editor more powerful than the Wc3 editor.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2005-01-22 at 16:29:53
For an income system what is wrong with

-have a death counter (or custom score for leaderboard purposes) that represents income
-when it is time to collect income, move a death counter to 1
-while death counter is 1, convert the "income" variable to added minerals and another death counter. (i.e. subtract 1 income add 1 min add 1 death counter), scaled in binary
-when "income" is 0 set death counter to 2
-while death counter is 2 convert the other death counter back to "income"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by axblader on 2005-01-22 at 17:35:03
you know the subtracting part...its ez

all you need is 1 trigger!

like this:

conditon:if p(1) suffers atleast 10d (i suppose that a death)
if p(1) suffers less than 10c.
action:sumbtract 1c
add 10d.

or oppisite?
then somthing else...

lol maby mroe than 1 trigger...until i find out what you can do with deaths.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 20:13:14
You can't do it with one trigger mainly because you need another separate trigger to subtract this:

1B2A - 3A = 9A

You would need to remove the one from the B and add it to the A. You would now have 12A and you would subtract it now.

All operations will take more than one trigger because I need to make the computer know what 1+1 equals.

I just realized this:

To make operations I will have to use the Death Counts for at least 2 players simply because I might run out of Death Counts. I might make it like this:

P1 1 X Death Counts
P2 2 X Death Counts
- Action to make then add up
P1 now has 3 X Death Counts

The system is quite crude becasue you need 1 trigger for every posible scenario. Than now means about 100 triggers per digit in addittion alone.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)3 on 2005-01-22 at 20:24:35
BeeR_KeG, don't you think that it would be better if your death counters were this:

1337

1D
3C
3B
7A

Rather than

1A
3B
3C
7D

Because if you think about it, the triggering would be much easier. Take for example some of your sample questions.

1A2B - 3A = 9A

It would be a little weird for the type Death counters to do. Because you would need to modify the Death counter "B" when "A" is being modified. It would be easier like this:

1B2A - 3A = 9A

This way, you need to only modify the same death counter.

Also, about subtraction. What you could do is boost the default numbers of all your digits from 0 and make them 10. That way, you have a range of negative numbers too. Here it would work this way. So instead of when a death counter goes over 10 and adds a counter for the next digit, it makes it so that when the death counter goes over 19 and adds it to the next digit. 10 = 0, 9 = -1, 8 = -2, etc. You can use these death counters to do the subtraction.

10 - 3 = 7
Originally: 1B2A - 3A = 7A
Now: 11B12A - 13A = 17A
If you have boost these numbers up you can get a range of negative numbers like this:
Original: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Original Translation: 1A 2A 3A 4A 5A 6A 7A 8A 9A 1B2A

Newer: -10 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Newer Translation: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 20:33:10
This would work in a great way, althought it would require some addittional triggering it's still quite efficient.

I never knew you could throw Death Counts into the negatives...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)3 on 2005-01-22 at 20:35:39
Could I challenge you to a triggering duel BeeR_KeG[eM]?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-22 at 20:40:58
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Jan 22 2005, 04:29 PM)
For an income system what is wrong with

-have a death counter (or custom score for leaderboard purposes) that represents income
-when it is time to collect income, move a death counter to 1
-while death counter is 1, convert the "income" variable to added minerals and another death counter. (i.e. subtract 1 income add 1 min add 1 death counter), scaled in binary
-when "income" is 0 set death counter to 2
-while death counter is 2 convert the other death counter back to "income"
[right][snapback]130267[/snapback][/right]

I don't see the problem with this either?
I already made this too! It does all the income in 1 in-game second.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 21:15:30
A duel eh? That could be aranged but not now since I'm kinda grounded and I can't use Sc at the moment.

If you make it in leaderboard you would still have to do the same thing as death counts.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-22 at 21:54:48
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG[eM] @ Jan 22 2005, 09:15 PM)
If you make it in leaderboard you would still have to do the same thing as death counts.
[right][snapback]130486[/snapback][/right]

But will you ever reach the max income?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-22 at 21:56:41
Max income is infinite
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-22 at 22:04:39
Did you figure out that the max deaths was 65535? I also don't see a problem with making more than 1 counter. Why make this complicated Digit System when you can just do it the way DTBK said above?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2005-01-22 at 22:41:20
Not to mention that in any Wintermaul Wars type map your income never gets that high. Maybe this system is for huge number over 65535???
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)3 on 2005-01-23 at 12:46:31
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG[eM] @ Jan 22 2005, 09:15 PM)
A duel eh? That could be aranged but not now since I'm kinda grounded and I can't use Sc at the moment.

If you make it in leaderboard you would still have to do the same thing as death counts.
[right][snapback]130486[/snapback][/right]

Tell me when you can get back on. I can't exactly go on SC either, I've got semester finals. So.....all things a go? Any limitations?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-23 at 15:14:46
The digit system is up to infinita amount of anything.

This is a Wc3 System converted into Starcraft, I do belive no surrent starcraft systeam can do it becasue there is no way to have an infinite system and keep adding values to that system while letting the engine know how much value there is.

Can your system do that in very few triggers and do mathematical operations?

This is not from Wintermaul Wars it's Line Tower wars where the income can easily reach 250 thousand. And it can be reached there in increments of 1.

Mp)3: I'll see when I can get Sc back and then make the arrangements.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Thermo on 2005-01-24 at 18:16:29
It can't be infinite unless you have infinite space to work with and well you don't. There is a limit where you can make the limit go no further with sc. Now this number may have 800000000 zeros at the end of it but it still has a limit.

Btw i think you can get bigger numbers then what your working with by just have 2 death scores. When one death score reaches 65535 add 1 to the other death score and set the first one back to 0. That means you can get something along the lines of 4294967295 as the largest possible number your system can generate. Plus addition subtract multiplication and even division become so much simpler because you are working with 2 death scores not 13 or some humongerous number.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-24 at 19:51:50
Thats would bs the same as using one death count but you are just extending it.

It would be in a way less efficient than using one death count because you would still have to make a separate trigger for each death count.

I just need 1 trigger per digit.

IE: 65535 = your system would need 65535 trigger to locate how many there is
In 65535 using my system you just need only 50 triggers
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-24 at 21:35:32
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG[eM] @ Jan 24 2005, 07:51 PM)
IE: 65535 = your system would need 65535 trigger to locate how many there is
In 65535 using my system you just need only 50 triggers
[right][snapback]131716[/snapback][/right]

I see the need for only 1. More would be faster...
1 by 1 conversion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Thermo on 2005-01-25 at 00:39:07
Actually to tell how many deaths are in a death score of 65535 i will need 16 checks to tell how much is in it in one pass. So by 65535 you mean 17 yes. Plus it is instananeous. I must say i do believe your system is a tad more ineffiecient with 50 triggers or 70 triggers when it takes 17 to tell how many is in 1 death score if 65535 is the max a death score can hold. The same system can be done with about 64 triggers with about ohh 4294 times the max of your system if your max is 1 million with a total of 3 death scores.

32767
16384
8192
4096
2048
1024
512
258
128
64
32
16
8
4
2
1
1
would be the checks made to make that possible in that order too
when you do a check subtract that amount from the death score and put it into a holder death score. when the death score is equal to 0 then you just go in reverse and put everything back done. When you do the subtracting you can do whatever options you want to the players.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-25 at 15:11:49
Basicly if your using one death count up to 65535 you will need to make one trigger to give minerals per death count meaning you will need 65535 triggers because right now you can't use functions in Sc.

My system will require you to use 10 triggers per digit meaning that you will use far less triggers if the number is above 30.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-01-25 at 15:21:06
its still not infinite, even though the limit is extremely high, if i understand correctly each unit death is a different place value and you keep carrying over, so eventually you will run out of places to carry over, eventually, right?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-25 at 15:23:59
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG @ Jan 25 2005, 03:11 PM)
Basicly if your using one death count up to 65535 you will need to make one trigger to give minerals per death count meaning you will need 65535 triggers because right now you can't use functions in Sc.

My system will require you to use 10 triggers per digit meaning that you will use far less triggers if the number is above 30.
[right][snapback]132209[/snapback][/right]

You use 1 by 1 conversion.
You have a death counter, and you subtract 1 death count, and add to another death count and add a mineral. Then you have one that does 2 and 4, 8, 16, etc.

[attachmentid=4430] This is the example. The vespene gas shows how much money you can expect when the timer is up. It gives you all the money from the deaths to minerals. It will take 1 second and not instantaneous because it is in powers of 10 and not 2. If done in powers of 2, it will be instant.

The vespene gas will not stop going up even if the deaths has reached its limit. I didn't know death counters had a limit before this tongue.gif

QUOTE(devilesk @ Jan 25 2005, 03:21 PM)
its still not infinite, even though the limit is extremely high, if i understand correctly each unit death is a different place value and you keep carrying over, so eventually you will run out of places to carry over, eventually, right?
[right][snapback]132214[/snapback][/right]

Nothing is infinite.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-01-25 at 16:05:23
That system is similar to mine except it uses soemthing between binary bumbers and cardinal numbers and mine uses Digit numbers.

Thing is, lots of people don't know how to read binary numbers and even less people know how to properly mix systems.

Since we have far more knowledge on how to make mathematical operations with cardinal numbers(Digit Numbers), we can make operations much easier.
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